There is a line between supporting a valuable team member and enabling an idiot.

 

Watched someone die 4 times on trash on VM hammer by solo attacking mobs and packs we had gone past.

 

Got round to dealing with their garbage after finishing the trash pack or even boss fight we were already doing while they attacked unwarranted trash packs.

 

I will not spend combat resources on a walking sandbag. I may on very rare occasions heal someone worth healing if it makes more combat sense than letting them die and combat ressing on a 30s CD for a large "heal", repairs are your own responsibility, they don't just happen.

 

My priority is to complete a VM flashpoint as efficiently as possible while typically "tanking" so someone finding a way to die before me is very likely doing something unhelpful to the groups progress and I won't support that (not to mention offhealing is a massive penalty to me progressing the fight through damage).

Potentially in his defense I will say I came back a couple weeks ago and there has been some adjustment to the SWTOR way of doing content. In most MMOs I play we tend to kill everything, and indeed it's set up that way. In the fan re-released "City Of Heroes/Villains" (several version) I know a lot of groups like to clear all the black from the map and murder everything for points. In ESO avoiding mobs is usually not an option (though there are some places you can speed run). In SWTOR everyone seemed to know every map and have a pattern down and avoid everything, oftentimes running skillfully between packs of trash I didn't even realize at first sight could be avoided... and of course stealh classes knocking out mobs opens up all kinds of options there as well.

At any rate I adjusted, learned most of the maps as I played them a few times, and focusing on a couple of my stealth characters (Agent and Shadow-Tank) helped me figure out what stuff could be avoided. I guess things have been this way for a while... I was gone quite a while, and was never into group content in SWTOR until recently (mostly soloed). That said when I first started... yeah, I attacked crap I didn't need to, and some people were nasty about it, and even insulting when I tried to explain why. That said most were nice and helped me figure it out when they realized why I was doing it..... this was especially an issue on my tank initially, as being first in the face of the mobs is what I saw my job as... lol.

At any rate, I'm only posting this to say that as a lot of people are returning for a while due to the Mando show, new movie, new expansion, etc.... it might not be that the person is an idiot, they might just not know better. You are doing dungeon content here a bit differently than most other popular MMOs running at the moment.... that's not a bad thing, but SWTOR does involve a different mindset, especially if your group has stealth options.

One point I will make though is that when I was leveling to the new cap, I would have preferred killing a lot more monsters in general (though I went with the group) simply for the points. Now that I'm maxxed though, and it's all about tech fragments/item drops/conquest I can understand the desire to speed clear and get on to the next boss/run.

Oh and unrelated (for those that read this far) I think they need to retire, or re-build "Kuat Drive Yards". I find that one can take a little while, it has tons of trash to clear, and only one boss. While mahy FPs take as long or longer, they at least have three bosses. The Kuat one should either drop triple loot at the end, or the Elite Defenders should have full on boss loot instead of just low-end rep tokens.

I am so done with group content in this game.

I'd just got my Commando healer to level 75 by doing the Voss Weekly and figured "Ok, time to queue for a random FP"

Got Veteran Hammer Station with an actual trinity group for once. More fool me, but I expected it to be fun.

(the other 3 were level 50, 60, and 70 - Vanguard tank and a pair of Jedi dps)

Started off ok, though they did try biting off a little more trash than normal. I kept them all nicely healed and out of real danger. We took the shortcut to the first boss, which should have been an absolute cake-walk, even if the tank attacked the droid before the rest of us were in the room.

None of them were in any danger - I was well on top of the healing and cleansing the stacks from the tunneling beam, and then all of a sudden the tank breaks off the attack and runs to a kolto station.

As much as I hate that practice, I can almost understand it in groups with no tank or lots of lowbies (sub-40), but a trinity group running the easiest group content in the game? Ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous.

Some days, I'd let it slide. Veteran Mode breeds laziness by not requiring a trinity group, and the "Oh no, I've taken one hit! Must have kolto!" panic is something I should know to expect from pugs... but I didn't let it slide.

I went off on one at the pointless and insulting lack of trust.

One of the DPS (Jedi of some description) hit back by claiming that healers are totally useless in veteran mode, and had the unmitigated gall to suggest that THEY were carrying ME. They would've wiped twice before even reaching the boss if they hadn't had me, and they really thought I should be grateful to be allowed to play the content with THEM.

Wow. Just wow. That was the final straw. I told the arrogant drenheel to go frell himself, put him on ignore, and quit out of the group for the sake of my sanity.

I don't need people like that when I'm trying to have fun.

Oh I have no doubt that they pulled out a healer companion and carried on their smug little way. I'm sure they think they got the last laugh.

Honestly, between the current crafting mess, the companion nerf, the increasingly slow map transitions, and a rise in toxicity in group content, I think when my sub expires next week, I'm going to take another long hiatus to get away from the rapidly diminishing "fun" of SWtOR.

Someone clicked a kolto station and you...

went off on one

...and quit the Hammer Station VM flashpoint because it offended you.

When healing is a waste of time all good healers stop healing and help push the fight along with damage. That is also a display of skill.

Everyone is a dps. Some have extra controls to tank, some to heal but if you don't need to control a fight and don't need to heal right now you get back to focusing on damage.

I never heal people in FP even if I am on a class that can. Reason? it's simple really. I only play dps. If I wanted to heal people. I would roll a healer and do just that. But I don't want to so I won't.

If I have a combat res and I see someone died, I will use it ASAP. But that's it.

I went off on one at the pointless and insulting lack of trust.

You are expecting trust from a bunch of random people you have never seen before? Not a great idea.

Honestly, between the current crafting mess, the companion nerf, the increasingly slow map transitions, and a rise in toxicity in group content, I think when my sub expires next week, I'm going to take another long hiatus to get away from the rapidly diminishing "fun" of SWtOR.

Well, I hate to see someone "rage quit", but then again, you do have to realize that a VM HS FP is truly a PUG, and you have be willing to anticipate some possible problems.

I do think it's a bit over the top to RQ over someone using a kolto**. Myself, I only play DPS these days (I also played healer way back when). 75-80% of the time a VM FP ends up being 4 DPS or 3 DPS and a tank***. So, I get very used to looking after my own health. This means, of course, that in the heat of battle, I might use a kolto before I even remember there's a healer. I don't think a healer should get upset by this - rather, I think they should either appreciate the assistance, or just shrug it off.

** I realize that it's their attitude that was probably the main problem, but...

*** To put this into perspective.... When you do an FP, there's always a healer (you) and so you expect things to go a certain way. But, recently, I've been doing about 3 FPs per day and I can easily go 2 or 3 days without even one of those runs having a healer. You can't expect me to suddenly switch off my self-preservation mode because a (unknown) healer has showed up. And, btw, about half the time a healer does show up, it's a veteran PUG and they are just learning or aren't that good (and could use the assistance).

When healing is a waste of time all good healers stop healing and help push the fight along with damage. That is also a display of skill.

 

Everyone is a dps. Some have extra controls to tank, some to heal but if you don't need to control a fight and don't need to heal right now you get back to focusing on damage.

Ordinarily, I'd just roll my eyes and do exactly that. It was just yesterday it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Myself, I only play DPS these days (I also played healer way back when). 75-80% of the time a VM FP ends up being 4 DPS or 3 DPS and a tank***. So, I get very used to looking after my own health. This means, of course, that in the heat of battle, I might use a kolto before I even remember there's a healer. I don't think a healer should get upset by this - rather, I think they should either appreciate the assistance, or just shrug it off.

Yeah. I know I over-reacted. A year ago, I probably would have said something like "You guys shouldn't need to click the kolto stations. I've got you" in the greeting phase. Might not have made a difference, but then again it might. Oh well, c'est la vie.

Hindsight is 20/20 after all.

Oh and unrelated (for those that read this far) I think they need to retire, or re-build "Kuat Drive Yards". I find that one can take a little while, it has tons of trash to clear, and only one boss. While mahy FPs take as long or longer, they at least have three bosses. The Kuat one should either drop triple loot at the end, or the Elite Defenders should have full on boss loot instead of just low-end rep tokens.

I don't think so, because in my opinion KDY is a very good learning tool for Newbies.

Veterans of course find learning tools boring.

I don't think so, because in my opinion KDY is a very good learning tool for Newbies.

Veterans of course find learning tools boring.

Then put it in the special sub 15 queue for newbies with BT / Esseles.

used to run heals and sometimes folks clicked koltos (guild runs), asked if it was a trust thing, answer: usually no healer in there, so koltos. clicking becomes a habit, nothing more.

stopped to run heals, as derp i can do more damage. as heal specced you normally aren't doing too much damage.

used to run heals and sometimes folks clicked koltos (guild runs), asked if it was a trust thing, answer: usually no healer in there, so koltos. clicking becomes a habit, nothing more.

stopped to run heals, as derp i can do more damage. as heal specced you normally aren't doing too much damage.

Speaking of that, I was in a VM Flashpoint last night with 3 other DPS. One of the DPS was taking a long time to zone in, so I started to attack the first trash groups. Someone asked "Should we wait for the other guy" and I said "it's about the same as having 3 DPS and 1 healer - the damage output is the same", except for no healing. Eventually, of course, the 4th player did zone in.

Met a strange person in Boarding Party master mode today.

We (Jugg Tank, Jugg DD, lowbie sorc dd and me on my sorc heal) start and at the first add group I see the lowbie DD is casting heals.

I ask him to respec or to do damage as he listed the wrong role. He gets angry and tells me to do dmg.

We continue, I heal and dps. He stands around sometimes healing but mostly casting revivification on 1 or 2 people.

But since he is soo slow I healed the goup already so he´s basically doing nothing.

He dies at the first boss in the lightning.

I tell him revivification is useless in fps - he doesn´t care.

We wipe one time when the dd pulls a group with a small boss but we finish it slowly.

I put him on igno but I pity the people who get grouped with him.

Having no idea about your class + arrogance. Nice.

Then put it in the special sub 15 queue for newbies with BT / Esseles.

I'm a bit surprised they haven't done so so far yet.

I ask him to respec or to do damage as he listed the wrong role. He gets angry and tells me to do dmg.

Maybe he just didn't notice ? I mean, GF once listed my Commando as Healer but with the damage tree ...

I'm a bit surprised they haven't done so so far yet.

KDY could also fit in the uprisings queue - same copy / paste layout, a bunch of generic trash, only one 'boss' with loot.

But since they probably won't do anything (add loot, move to BT / Esseles lowbie only, move to uprisings), I'll keep declining queues with super low characters (very high chance of getting KDY, half the super low players I get are both terrible AND refuse to listen) as well as dropping if it pops (1/3 the loot for the same amount of time, 95% spent killing pointless boring trash = nope).

Maybe he just didn't notice ? I mean, GF once listed my Commando as Healer but with the damage tree ...

No, he wanted to heal and said he was listed the wrong role (dd).

I´ve never been listed the wrong role myself so he probably listed for both roles and didn´t bother to tell us.

No, he wanted to heal and said he was listed the wrong role (dd).

I´ve never been listed the wrong role myself so he probably listed for both roles and didn´t bother to tell us.

as if it even matters in tactical fp. the fp will pop just as fast no matter what roles people are queued as and everyone just clicks kolto stations and expects healers to do dps anyway.

as if it even matters in tactical fp. the fp will pop just as fast no matter what roles people are queued as and everyone just clicks kolto stations and expects healers to do dps anyway.

It was master mode.

It was master mode.

oh. you said he was lowbie so i assumed it was tactical.

oh. you said he was lowbie so i assumed it was tactical.

He was 70 something with crap gear.

And I would never queue tactical, especially not as heal

Christmas morning....

On my 26 Shadow Cadimimu VM.... others around 60ish. Leviathan server. First group pulled, and pushed over. Done. Next group killed off no wipes. Down long elevator. I"m the only stealth so I stun the dog as we pass. Someone pushes droid over. Going great. Down the long corridor, through bar, open door, and I stealth stun that one human. We all get by fine.

As we're going through the doorway there, one of the 60s aggros that group just inside. Group wipes, I stealth out. Waiting.... They all immediately go back to start. Somebody aggros something on the way back. I start heading back. 2 dead. I get one of the aggro'd Champ droids to follow me and push him over. I start fighting the one aggro'd group with dogs, and eventually die.

Rez back to beginning. At top of elevator, one of the 60s leaves. Not the ones that were aggro'ing the mobs. So I'm stuck with the last 2 players who can't seem to pass mobs w/o aggro'ing. Oh well. Vote kick. It's me.

Kick the one player that got you the farthest in the flashpoint and actually knew what they were doing.

New character, level was under 30. In KDY, this was the far longest fight I've ever had against the boss - with 2 wipes. We barely survive. People just don't know how bad some enemy abilities are against low-level chars, even with bolster.

Hammer station. I had to act like a Healer even although my Sage was DPS. Except 1 we only had low-level chars.

Same here : No-One realy knows - or acknowledges - how deadly some abilities are for low-level chars. The last boss was able to one-shot several of us. we barely survive.

I remember people here in this forum writing that the boss abilities weren't that deadly even for low-level characters because of bolster. I very much disagree because of experience with low-level chars. Bolster isn't helping with everything.

Last run, also rather low-level chars, Cademimu. Pushing + several deaths. That's what it describes it most. It was basically a speedrun. In the end I wondered whether they would survive the last boss fight at all, because I really didn't see them fighting much, only pushing, and running through things.

The fight was rather smooth, I hadn't expected that. But still, so many deaths ...

If this running through and pushing thing persists, people will unlearn how to fight, I fear ...

Besides, I have found that in story mode Esseles one can get the bonus boss with just one of both energy switches ...

Besides, I have found that in story mode Esseles one can get the bonus boss with just one of both energy switches ...

Yes, because in group version you are supposed to activate them with a very short time between the activations. It's impossible to do in solo with one person, so devs just changed it to one console.

This. Exactly this. The only time it doesn't enrage me is if I end up in Blood Hunt. That FP lags far more for me than anything else in the game (except maybe the train section of Crisis on Umbara) - so much so that I still frequently go up to a minute at a time of being effectively blind in battle. It's just... ugh.

 

Everywhere else, I can usually see what I'm doing, which means I can usually keep the group healed as long as they don't do anything really spectacularly silly, which means "Please trust me. In the event that I can't keep up and a kolto station is needed, let me be the one to click it"

Blood Hunt is the one where once I actually got yelled at for healing instead of DPSing on my Healing Spec Sage... They said 'We have the kolto stations, you should be DPS not heals' and yes, it was a Hard mode (this was back when they had Story and Hard) so I was like... uhhhh. So I did as they asked, which by the way meant ME running around hitting the kolto stations, not them. It's why to this day I despise Blood Hunt.

Blood Hunt is the one where once I actually got yelled at for healing instead of DPSing on my Healing Spec Sage... They said 'We have the kolto stations, you should be DPS not heals' and yes, it was a Hard mode (this was back when they had Story and Hard) so I was like... uhhhh. So I did as they asked, which by the way meant ME running around hitting the kolto stations, not them. It's why to this day I despise Blood Hunt.

Umm, it was "hard mode" and had "koltos"? Does not compute. 😋

Umm, it was "hard mode" and had "koltos"? Does not compute. 😋

I Might be remembering wrong then, but either way I was a sage in Healer spec, and they were adamant that we use the Koltos and not my own healing because.... they didn't need me to heal when they have koltos.