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Same gender relationships clarifications?


elexier

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Considering that Mass Effect 3 is notable for finally including a gay romance for male Shepard, I think it's at least a little bit relevant here, don't you agree?

 

Agreed, so long as any potential ME MMO includes same gender content from day 1 (and isn't made by BW-Austin) I'd definitely give that game a look.

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Agreed, so long as any potential ME MMO includes same gender content from day 1 (and isn't made by BW-Austin) I'd definitely give that game a look.

 

That's mass effect though...this is Star Wars. It's a different universe. Why is it such an issue to have same sex romances?

 

Now before you get all huffy puffy and defensive, why do people get so pissed if they don't put them in? I never got that...and I know just because I don't get it doesn't mean others don't either :)

 

I'm just curious as to why some people are very VERY vocal about this. Thankyou

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That's mass effect though...this is Star Wars. It's a different universe. Why is it such an issue to have same sex romances?

 

Now before you get all huffy puffy and defensive, why do people get so pissed if they don't put them in? I never got that...and I know just because I don't get it doesn't mean others don't either :)

 

I'm just curious as to why some people are very VERY vocal about this. Thankyou

 

There is romance in the game. That's why.

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That's mass effect though...this is Star Wars. It's a different universe. Why is it such an issue to have same sex romances?

 

Now before you get all huffy puffy and defensive, why do people get so pissed if they don't put them in? I never got that...and I know just because I don't get it doesn't mean others don't either :)

 

I'm just curious as to why some people are very VERY vocal about this. Thankyou

 

Think of it from a different standpoint. What if all the relationships in the game were gay only?

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I think it's relevant, particularly with the concept of "possibility space". And I think BioWare wanted to get this right with same gender content, but there was a fumble along the way, and they're trying to catch up. In a word, I think they're embarrassed, and that this, as much as anything, contributes to their silence.

 

I don't think it is an issue of dodging negative publicity for same-gender content at all. Truth be told, that really and truly is not that unusual these days. Didn't EA do the Sims? And talk about a mainstream game. No - I don't think they are concerned for having to defend this content in that way. They aren't talking to their customers. Why should they talk to the press?

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I think it's relevant, particularly with the concept of "possibility space". And I think BioWare wanted to get this right with same gender content, but there was a fumble along the way, and they're trying to catch up. In a word, I think they're embarrassed, and that this, as much as anything, contributes to their silence.

 

I don't think it is an issue of dodging negative publicity for same-gender content at all. Truth be told, that really and truly is not that unusual these days. Didn't EA do the Sims? And talk about a mainstream game. No - I don't think they are concerned for having to defend this content in that way. They aren't talking to their customers. Why should they talk to the press?

 

Unfortunately for us, it's easier to ignore the customers than to ignore the press. I imagine, assuming of course that there is an uproar from the extremist groups after ME3 is officially released, they will have to say something to the press, even if it's a simple press release that says "we stand by our inclusiveness in Mass Effect 3."

 

That said, I think you're right about the fact that, at this point, they're mostly trying to make up for the fumble at the beginning and have, for whatever reason, decided that not speaking about it is the best approach until they've fixed their blunder internally.

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I'm just curious as to why some people are very VERY vocal about this. Thankyou

Why are people vocal about anything? Because it's important to them. I am sorry if that visibility makes you uncomfortable. But I think its better for folks to understand that this is not content with a small, fringe following - this is something people expect in a game featuring romantic / flirting content in 2012.

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That's mass effect though...this is Star Wars. It's a different universe. Why is it such an issue to have same sex romances?

 

Now before you get all huffy puffy and defensive, why do people get so pissed if they don't put them in? I never got that...and I know just because I don't get it doesn't mean others don't either :)

 

I know Suaine already answered this, but I am going to again because I think it's important.

 

First, thank you for asking, many people who don't understand our questions have been far less pleasant about it.

 

This game is advertised as a story-based MMO. The companion interaction with your character is a focal point of these stories; so much so that the companions have a part driving the story forward. The game allows romances between your character and one of your companions - if the companion is the opposite gender from your character.

 

So the fact is that we are part of a story driven game with a romance option that is available to some people, but not all.

 

I guess a summary of why people are upset might be:

- This is a highly story-based game

- Romances are already part of that story

- But not for those who prefer their own gender

 

If opposite gender romances were not included in the game, I believe this would be much less of an issue. Certainly I would not expect a game to have only same-gender romance. However, with the inclusion of opposite gender romance, there is no rational reason why same-gender romances should not be included as well.

 

This design choice, along with the fact that we have been continually ignored in the Q&A thread despite similar vague questions getting "yes we are working on it" answers, is what I would consider to be the root of much of the frustration here.

 

I'm rambling, but again, here are some things people should understand if they aren't actively following this thread:

- We don't want SGRAs because it's Star Wars, we want them because OGRAs are already in-game.

- We don't want SGRAs for political reasons, we want them because OGRAs are already in-game.

- We don't want this to the exclusion of other updates, just alongside them.

- We don't want a hard deadline, we just want some confirmation that they are working on it.

- [edited to add] If at all possible, we would like to know how they will be implemented.

 

I'm just curious as to why some people are very VERY vocal about this. Thankyou

 

Because some of us are holding off on leveling characters because we don't want to miss out on potential story elements. And also because no one in any official capacity is talking to us :)

 

Sorry to everyone here if it seems I am speaking for them, in the end all opinions in this post are mine alone. YMMV.

Edited by DarthEpitaph
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That's mass effect though...this is Star Wars. It's a different universe. Why is it such an issue to have same sex romances?

 

Now before you get all huffy puffy and defensive, why do people get so pissed if they don't put them in? I never got that...and I know just because I don't get it doesn't mean others don't either :)

 

I'm just curious as to why some people are very VERY vocal about this. Thankyou

 

Because BioWare has put same sex romances in every game they've released with a romance option since Dragon Age and, this may come as a shock to some people, but sometimes gay people like to role play as gay characters in role playing games. And, really, BioWare has no one to blame but themselves. Before Dragon Age I was totally fine with hetero romances but once they started putting in gay ones I was hooked. I can never go back. So, yeah, that's pretty much why.

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I wasn't aware this was an issue....bottom line is they either don't think it's important or atleast not important enough for the pr problem. Have to say I agree, the small % of people that want this are likely minimal to the amount that would be upset by it. Bioware has much larger issues with the game that need to be fixed/updated than this IMO.
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Because BioWare has put same sex romances in every game they've released with a romance option since Dragon Age and, this may come as a shock to some people, but sometimes gay people like to role play as gay characters in role playing games.

As do, believe it or not, many straight people, men and women, of all ages.

 

Personally, I have expected this as a matter of course in roleplaying games since 1990 or so. But then, I come to RPGs from the world of old-school, pencil and paper, table-top RPGs and this stuff stopped being questioned around the time White Wolf took roleplaying in a story and character-driven direction rather than number-crunching dungeon-crawls.

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This game is advertised as a story-based MMO. The companion interaction with your character is a focal point of these stories; so much so that the companions have a part driving the story forward. The game allows romances between your character and one of your companions - if the companion is the opposite gender from your character.

 

So the fact is that we are part of a story driven game with a romance option that is available to some people, but not all.

 

Actually it would be more accurate to say we are not part of the story driven game. :(

 

For story being the major pillar of the game, BW doesn't seem to be very bothered by the fact that the pillar is broken for a significant part of the player base.

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I wasn't aware this was an issue....bottom line is they either don't think it's important or atleast not important enough for the pr problem. Have to say I agree, the small % of people that want this are likely minimal to the amount that would be upset by it. Bioware has much larger issues with the game that need to be fixed/updated than this IMO.

 

The small percentage of people that want this is most likely bigger than you think, unless you're just simply surrounded by bigots in which case I'm sorry to hear that. Honestly, how many people do you think would stop playing the game over this? How many do you think would enjoy it?

 

A company like Bioware comes with its own audience, and a significant portion of that audience are people who want to be able to play same-gender romances, due in no small part to Bioware's backlog of games. So I think it's safe to say that the number of these players is higher in a Bioware-made game than other games of this type. Possibly because if you want to play any significant SGRAs in a PC-RPG, there really is not much in the way of competition, it's either Bioware or bust.

 

Additionally, there really aren't any hard numbers about men who want to play f/f romance and women who want to play m/m romance because they like it, but let's just assume that they aren't insignificant - the latter are certainly part of a group big enough to support an entire, if relatively new genre of novel and an enormous and diverse online community. Those people, I'm sure, want this option, if perhaps not with the same vehemency as people who are also tied up in it through their identity.

 

How many players are here for the story? One would think quite a few, since that is the main selling point of the game. How many of those want to play romances as part of their character or even just try it out? A lot of them.

 

You say there will be large amounts of people (enough to outweigh those invested in the content as I laid out) upset by this, but there's really no substantial evidence for that. How many do you seriously believe would be upset by other people being granted the same opportunities they have? How many people like that do you know?

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Pulling a quote from a ways back since this thread gets so much activity while I'm at work :D :

 

I'm actually pretty curious how many people play characters who romance a gender they're not personally attracted to; you've got the stereotypical straight guys playing lesbians, of course, but how many of them will play gay men, or straight women, for instance?

Stereotypical or not, I'm a straight guy who plays a lot of female characters, and if there's an option to romance a female while doing so, I'll usually take it. Not because of any "Woohoo, lesbians!" thing - this is the internet; if I want lesbian [adult-oriented entertainment], I can get it for free and without having to level up first. :D It's because I generally find female characters more interesting than male ones. I tend to care for them more, and if given the option between following a side quest for a male character or a female one, I'll choose the female one. It's just the way my mind works.

 

To be honest, I started playing my female JK knowing that SGRs weren't yet in the game, and the chemistry between my character and Kira took me by surprise. I've mentioned it before, they've got this Xena/Gabrielle thing going on that's unreal. (Probably helps that my JK is female body type 3.) Having to stop playing the character and leave that story hanging really sucks, and it's a huge part of why I'm hoping that the current companions become SGR-capable.

 

The weird thing is that if that happens, my male Smuggler could easily end up with Corso, and playing a man who's in a relationship with another man is something I've never done before. It's mostly that my Smuggler is a genuine Good Guy, and as much as I liked having him flirt with Risha at every opportunity, the fact that she disapproves of him doing the right thing instead of asking for more money kind of grates on me. I haven't got Akaavi just yet, but it remains to be seen if she suits my Smuggler better or if he and Corso end up being the most awesome Republic freelancer couple ever. :D

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I wasn't aware this was an issue....bottom line is they either don't think it's important or atleast not important enough for the pr problem.

Stephen Reid, commenting on the announcement last September that same-gender companion romances would be post-launch content in SWTOR seems to suggest BioWare feels otherwise:

 

"First of all, this is definitely not an audience that consists of a 'couple of people' and we're aware of that. We take this decision very seriously."

 

Have to say I agree, the small % of people that want this are likely minimal to the amount that would be upset by it.

That hardly seems to be borne out by the small number of posts to the Q&A thread that question this decision (two to four a week, on average) compared to the number of players who are requesting some sort of status update on same-gender content, which is roughly 10%, this week and last.

 

You are welcome to your opinion of the relevance of the content to your enjoyment of the game, of course. Others feel otherwise.

 

Bioware has much larger issues with the game that need to be fixed/updated than this IMO.

No one has ever suggested otherwise. Only that it would be helpful to have further clarification of how same-gender content might be implemented.

 

Please familiarize yourself with the subject of the thread, and what it is addressing, before leaping to unwarranted conclusions.

Edited by Uluain
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What about those people who don't want SGR, will they be able to turn that option off or will they have to deal with it?

 

that is the topic of another thread, located here: linky. Quite a bit to read up on, but the basic gist is that there are some people on either side of the debate, and a few that fall in between XD.

Edited by emusan
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What about those people who don't want SGR, will they be able to turn that option off or will they have to deal with it?

Probably have to deal. The latest info we have on that from Stephen Reid, as of last September, with a mention a month or two ago that prior comments still stand:

 

"Lastly for those of you who seem concerned that you will be 'tricked' into any romance arc in the game - all romance choices are clearly marked. You will be aware you're making those choices as you make them."

Which is to say, those not wanting to explore same-gender content will be afforded the same opportunity already enjoyed by those not wishing to explore opposite-gender content, which is a state of affairs that has drawn little objection as it stands.

 

Why ought same-gender content be handled any differently?

 

But see the linked thread on a toggle option in the Suggestion Box.

Edited by Uluain
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Hey there. I've been playing with the idea of posting here, since my experiences with S/S threads usually end badly. In any case, as a gay guy I think it's time for me to show my support.

 

Now, I trust BioWare. Along the years they've proven how gay/woman/etc-friendly they are, and that's amazing. I actually think that some of the repplies are a little too much, making some serious accusations that I just think are unfair.

 

In any case, I understand the disappointment. Personally I think the S/S content will only appear in a expansion, wich is sad - as someone already said somewhere, paying more to do things people already do in the base game rubs me the wrong way.

 

I also think that some people fail to understand that some of the repplies in this thread are not just about having some hot guy on guy, girl on girl action (I'd love some with Corso, though :o), but what having the option means. I consider it a pretty powerful thing, but I suppose I can see why it doesn't mean much to other people.

 

And that's all I have to say. I love TOR not only because of the romances, but the story too, so I probably won't unsubscribe unless they really, really mess things up badly. If that happens, well, I'll always have Dragon Age.

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I see there are a lot of posts since I last checked in and I'm feeling a little too lazy atm to read them all... :t_redface:

 

I'm trying something different this time with my Q&A post. I'm pointing out that they mentioned the possibility of some companions leaving us and new ones joining up. So I asked about the new companions to see if they'd comment on them.

 

Figured it was worth a try at any rate... :t_cool:

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