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Server Merge Discussion Thread


EricMusco

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You are correct, everyone should be able to play without being harassed. The thing is, people are doing it to all groups, (let me reiterate) all groups. This thread has degenerated to "role-players are being specially targeted" and therefore we should not merge servers. I beg to differ. They even troll each other. People of all playstyles are being trolled. I started roleplaying when the original D&D with 3 6x8 paperback books in a boxed set, first came out. But even I find it ridiculous that one "specially targeted group" claims that others are putting themselves above this group and trying to force an issue. These others can say the same in rebuttal. You are saying they should pay to move an entire guild while losing assets like guild ships and decorations so as to not inconvenience you. Again, trolling is running rampant in this game and all groups are being targeted. What makes one group special?

 

Preach it because this is the one and only truth. But RP'ers wanting to be special snowflakes is not an alien concept even in the RP community itself. Insults that someone is a special snowflake are very easily thrown by rp'ers at one another but at times they do behave such.

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It's not the one and only indicator, but it can point to the fact something may be wrong because the Fleets usually are the hub of the server. They're the central place where players go to, they're designed to be liked that. But if you see there are 2 map instances of the Imperial fleet for example with 100+ people on the Red Eclipse and only 1 map instance with 89 people on the Progenitor at the same time during European prime time, you can assume which server has the higher population.

 

No, you can't. One is a RP server and one is a PVE server - thus the populations are likely to be interested in different activities and may well be spread far more thinly across progenitor.

 

I know if I wanted to RP I sure as hell wouldn't hang around fleet yet I would if I was looking for PUGs ... fleet numbers aren't a great indicator.

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Err what? You literally stated he is resorting to personal attacks?

 

When your argument resorts to you saying you never said somethin that anyone can quote you as saying ... you've already lost. ;)

 

 

 

Wow, great argumentative skills there.

 

 

 

Strawman does not mean what you think it means.

 

Thank you for the support. It's nice to be not depicted as a big bad boogeyman because I disagree with someone and put forward counter arguments to their statements :)

Edited by Ylliarus
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Preach it because this is the one and only truth. But RP'ers wanting to be special snowflakes is not an alien concept even in the RP community itself. Insults that someone is a special snowflake are very easily thrown by rp'ers at one another but at times they do behave such.

 

Except that you have been doing the same thing. You cast insults at roleplayers and then turn around and say you are a roleplayer, which I am beginning to doubt. While roleplayers are not perfect neither is any group but yet in this thread you continue to insult roleplayers and then turn around and claim to be a roleplayer.

 

There is no group that is perfect but if you claim to be in a specific group it would seem that you would not insult the group you are part of.

 

I don't pvp but yet I don't call them names or insult them . Your problem is you want one thing one server when there has been other people saying compromise in 2 servers or 3 depending on what they want to do with the European server but yet when someone says that, they are told they are not trying to compromise, but yet they are. You are the one not trying to reach an agreement.

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Oh but yet people are telling people to come to Harbinger? So asking about roleplay guilds is trolling, interesting concept when people keep saying come to Harbinger. Can't have it both ways, either everyone is accepted or they are not and no merger is going to change that.

 

Who is asking you to come and RP on harbinger and what the hell does that have to do with merges or what I said?

 

Harbinger is not classed as an RP server, you ask about RP there you are basically baiting the trolls.

 

Secondly a more accurate "study" would be taking a group of RP friends and repeating private RP activities you do on your RP server and see how hard you get trolled.

 

When you purposely bait a community to try and prove your point of it being unfriendly you aren't proving anything at all.

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No, you can't. One is a RP server and one is a PVE server - thus the populations are likely to be interested in different activities and may well be spread far more thinly across progenitor.

 

I know if I wanted to RP I sure as hell wouldn't hang around fleet yet I would if I was looking for PUGs ... fleet numbers aren't a great indicator.

 

Likely true, again it's not a big indicator but it could hint there's at least something going on, be it players with different interests or something else. But true, there are better indicators as to server health, i agree

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You are correct, everyone should be able to play without being harassed. The thing is, people are doing it to all groups, (let me reiterate) all groups. This thread has degenerated to "role-players are being specially targeted" and therefore we should not merge servers. I beg to differ. They even troll each other. People of all playstyles are being trolled. I started roleplaying when the original D&D with 3 6x8 paperback books in a boxed set, first came out. But even I find it ridiculous that one "specially targeted group" claims that others are putting themselves above this group and trying to force an issue. These others can say the same in rebuttal. You are saying they should pay to move an entire guild while losing assets like guild ships and decorations so as to not inconvenience you. Again, trolling is running rampant in this game and all groups are being targeted. What makes one group special?

 

While it is true that anyone wishing to play on a higher population server can do so NOW, I cannot remember anyone having said that BW shouldn't address and resolve the issues surrounding both individual and guild transfers.

 

The biggest difference is that those who oppose forced server merges are asking to retain the CHOICE of which server they choose to cal home--to have the opportunity to play on a server with a population and a community that meets their desires, not just the desires of those who want more LFG fodder at any cost.

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This very thread has had plenty of posts from people who intentionally moved AWAY from Harbinger and that are very happy on their current server and do not wish to be moved to a higher population server, let alone be forcibly merged into the cesspool of Harbinger's community. Almost all of the other "merge servers NOW!!!! I NEED more LFG fodder!!!!!" threads do, as well.

 

I have no hard numbers, but those factions do exist and should be acknowledged and not ignored or dismissed. Those people who have moved AWAY from Harbinger and any other players who do not want to be forcibly merged with Harbinger's toxic cesspool community should not be forced to do so

 

I guess it depends what you are defending against here ... are you saying "regardless" meaning even if they are on a dead PVP server they should not be forced off it or to harbinger (well they wouldn't be forced to harbinger as they could go to EH for example) OR are you saying this in regards to merging servers like EH to harbinger?

 

Where is your line here?

 

I think there are 2 different arugments going on in this thread and they are being treated like one.

 

Those for and against mega servers.

Those for and against any form of server merges.

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Err what? You literally stated he is resorting to personal attacks?

 

When your argument resorts to you saying you never said somethin that anyone can quote you as saying ... you've already lost. ;)

 

 

 

Wow, great argumentative skills there.

 

 

 

Strawman does not mean what you think it means.

 

Ignoring your snark, attacking a community as a whole is a personal attack on everyone in that community, which is what he did. He then claimed he didn't attack anyone personally, and no, individually he did not, and I responded to that. You can twist it however you like, but quoting out of context is a great way to wind up looking foolish. He said "correct me if I'm wrong" and I replied "you're wrong." I defined strawman correctly, but you chose not to quote it.

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Except that you have been doing the same thing. You cast insults at roleplayers and then turn around and say you are a roleplayer, which I am beginning to doubt. While roleplayers are not perfect neither is any group but yet in this thread you continue to insult roleplayers and then turn around and claim to be a roleplayer.

 

There is no group that is perfect but if you claim to be in a specific group it would seem that you would not insult the group you are part of.

 

I don't pvp but yet I don't call them names or insult them . Your problem is you want one thing one server when there has been other people saying compromise in 2 servers or 3 depending on what they want to do with the European server but yet when someone says that, they are told they are not trying to compromise, but yet they are. You are the one not trying to reach an agreement.

 

See this is more akin to strawman - he was stating RPers "Who want to be special snowflakes" - not ALL RPers unless you are implying ALL RPers want to be special snowflakes?

 

Context means a lot, the person throwing around strawman accusations could learn a bit.

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Except that you have been doing the same thing. You cast insults at roleplayers and then turn around and say you are a roleplayer, which I am beginning to doubt. While roleplayers are not perfect neither is any group but yet in this thread you continue to insult roleplayers and then turn around and claim to be a roleplayer.

 

There is no group that is perfect but if you claim to be in a specific group it would seem that you would not insult the group you are part of.

 

I don't pvp but yet I don't call them names or insult them . Your problem is you want one thing one server when there has been other people saying compromise in 2 servers or 3 depending on what they want to do with the European server but yet when someone says that, they are told they are not trying to compromise, but yet they are. You are the one not trying to reach an agreement.

 

Want me to show you my RP files? Stories I wrote as well as some RP scenes I documented or made screenshots of? Honestly I'll happily share them with you so you can judge for yourself whether my claim of being an rp'er is right or wrong. As a matter of fact in the Fan Fiction part of these forums I posted a thread with stories I wrote about a character I roleplayed for years. It's called "Tales of Lord Kosmarr", feel free to read it! Also I can refer you to multiple people I had rp'ed with to confirm that I was an rp'er for years. Sadly the thing is that one can turn their own against them which was the case with the RP community and me.

 

And I am not trying to actively insult anyone, I am merely stating what experiences I have had with the RP community of the Progenitor as well as those of others that I had witnessed on the SWTOR-RP forums. The threads are there to read, I am not thinking up stuff to shame the RP community but the reasons why I name part of the RP community toxic and a cesspool (or better said it can be at times) are all there to be found and read. Multiple RP'ers I was friends with had moved to entire different games like ESO because of how horrible rp'ers would treat their fellow rp'ers. So I am not basing my statements on nothing, you know.

Edited by Ylliarus
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Likely true, again it's not a big indicator but it could hint there's at least something going on, be it players with different interests or something else. But true, there are better indicators as to server health, i agree

 

You COULD archive fleet size at regular intervals over a 3 month period to get a trend of server health and that's providing no content has been released that could skew the metric (e.g. new strongholds or odessan when it dropped ).

 

That could as a metric of sorts though no one will believe your stats.

Edited by MeNaCe-NZ
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Ignoring your snark, attacking a community as a whole is a personal attack on everyone in that community, which is what he did. He then claimed he didn't attack anyone personally, and no, individually he did not, and I responded to that. You can twist it however you like, but quoting out of context is a great way to wind up looking foolish. He said "correct me if I'm wrong" and I replied "you're wrong." I defined strawman correctly, but you chose not to quote it.

 

Oh so he DID personally attack a whole community now? You said he didn't though? I'm confused.

What he did do was state RPers who want to be special snowflakes, not all RPers. How is insulting RPers that want to be special snowflakes by stating they want to be special snowflakes insulting an entire community - oh and worse yet "personally attacking" them ... not sure how you personally attack a whole community but ok.

 

At least if that's what you are referring to (it's hard to say since you contradict yourself to begin with).

 

Also quoting your 2 statements made back to back is not out of context at all - it IS THE context. I suggest you take time and think through your posts before clicking submit reply because this post you havem ade here isn't improving things any.

 

Accusing people of things they've not actually done is really poor form.

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You COULD archive fleet size at regular intervals over a 3 month period to get a trend of server health and that's providing no content has been released that could skew the metric (e.g. new strongholds or odessan when it dropped ).

 

That could as a metric of sorts though no one will believe your stats.

 

No they likely wouldn't want to believe it no even if it was a carefully documented study verified and checked by multiple others. They'd rather stick to what they already agree with I am afraid.

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Oh so he DID personally attack a whole community now? You said he didn't though? I'm confused.

What he did do was state RPers who want to be special snowflakes, not all RPers. How is insulting RPers that want to be special snowflakes by stating they want to be special snowflakes insulting an entire community - oh and worse yet "personally attacking" them ... not sure how you personally attack a whole community but ok.

 

At least if that's what you are referring to (it's hard to say since you contradict yourself to begin with).

 

Also quoting your 2 statements made back to back is not out of context at all - it IS THE context. I suggest you take time and think through your posts before clicking submit reply because this post you havem ade here isn't improving things any.

 

Accusing people of things they've not actually done is really poor form.

 

Take your own advice. I don't have time to spoon feed you the rest of what you missed, but here's the stuff to which I was responding:

 

From post #2235

Also, sorry to say it but it sounds somewhat funny... the entire RP community shuddering and fearing a player will stand in their midst with their biggest mount.

From post #2253

Oh but I am not personally attacking anyone,

Correct me if I am wrong but it certainly feels that way with the quotation marks and such.
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Take your own advice. I don't have time to spoon feed you the rest of what you missed, but here's the stuff to which I was responding:

 

From post #2235

 

From post #2253

 

How was #2235 insulting anyone? It just sounds a bit funny that people would be afraid of a guy on a mount, or at least, if you look at it without context it sounds funny but that could be just me.

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Want me to show you my RP files? Stories I wrote as well as some RP scenes I documented or made screenshots of? Honestly I'll happily share them with you so you can judge for yourself whether my claim of being an rp'er is right or wrong. As a matter of fact in the Fan Fiction part of these forums I posted a thread with stories I wrote about a character I roleplayed for years. It's called "Tales of Lord Kosmarr", feel free to read it! Also I can refer you to multiple people I had rp'ed with to confirm that I was an rp'er for years. Sadly the thing is that one can turn their own against them which was the case with the RP community and me.

 

And I am not trying to actively insult anyone, I am merely stating what experiences I have had with the RP community of the Progenitor as well as those of others that I had witnessed on the SWTOR-RP forums. The threads are there to read, I am not thinking up stuff to shame the RP community but the reasons why I name part of the RP community toxic and a cesspool (or better said it can be at times) are all there to be found and read. Multiple RP'ers I was friends with had moved to entire different games like ESO because of how horrible rp'ers would treat their fellow rp'ers. So I am not basing my statements on nothing, you know.

 

Also Casirabit, this is the thread Tales of Lord Kosmarr I talked about for your convenience! :)http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=926375

 

There's a lot more where that came from so I'd happily share my other documented RP experiences with you! I even had a commission done for my character which I can show :)

Edited by Ylliarus
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I guess it depends what you are defending against here ... are you saying "regardless" meaning even if they are on a dead PVP server they should not be forced off it or to harbinger (well they wouldn't be forced to harbinger as they could go to EH for example) OR are you saying this in regards to merging servers like EH to harbinger?

 

Where is your line here?

 

I think there are 2 different arugments going on in this thread and they are being treated like one.

 

Those for and against mega servers.

Those for and against any form of server merges.

 

I believe that the old PVP servers should be labeled as "very low population" and that anyone creating a character on one of those servers should have to confirm that they understand that before being allowed to create a character on said server. I understand the concerns that many have expressed regarding new players inadvertently choosing a "dead server" and being "turned off" of the game.

 

I favor providing more information for the other servers, as well.

 

It behooves BW and the game as a whole to enable players to make a more informed choice with regards to server selection.

 

 

 

I also believe that anyone who desires to remain on one of those servers, despite the very low population, should be able to do so.

 

That said, if BW elects to merge servers, a more limited scope of merges would be far preferable to one (or two) "megaserver(s)", IMO.

 

Leave Harbinger as it is. Merge The Bastion and Bergeren Colony.

 

Merge Ebon Hawk and Jung Ma. Merge Shadowlands, Jedi Covenant and Pot5.

 

 

Ideally, though, IMO, in a perfect world, BW resolves all the issue surrounding guild and personal transfers, adds one new larger, high capacity server on each coast and in Europe, and anyone wishing to can transfer to that new server. As people transfer and populations adjust, players may find that they are no longer happy on their current server and may choose to move to another., even if it is not the new server.

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Take your own advice. I don't have time to spoon feed you the rest of what you missed, but here's the stuff to which I was responding:

 

From post #2235

 

From post #2253

 

Cherry picking much? Let's look at the WHOLE post shall we:

 

Also, sorry to say it but it sounds somewhat funny... the entire RP community shuddering and fearing a player will stand in their midst with their biggest mount. It's a bit comical and I don't mean it in a harmful way of course but the image is somewhat funny. But it's exactly what fuels and feeds the trolls, they know you fear them so they do their trolling because they know they have the power to influence you with fear.

 

"a bit comical" - "I don't mean it in a harmful way" "they know YOU fear them".

 

Seems to me he was light heartedly putting his view on how you and others are coming across who think RP will be ruined by merges. I don't see how that is a personal attack?

 

You've stated it was a personal attack, then stated you never stated he made personal attacks and now you are seemingly defending the statement again as though it was a personal attack ... do you even know what you are posting anymore?

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I believe that the old PVP servers should be labeled as "very low population" and that anyone creating a character on one of those servers should have to confirm that they understand that before being allowed to create a character on said server. I understand the concerns that many have expressed regarding new players inadvertently choosing a "dead server" and being "turned off" of the game.

 

I favor providing more information for the other servers, as well.

 

It behooves BW and the game as a whole to enable players to make a more informed choice with regards to server selection.

 

I also believe that anyone who desires to remain on one of those servers, despite the very low population, should be able to do so.

 

That said, if BW elects to merge servers, a more limited scope of merges would be far preferable to one (or two) "megaserver(s)", IMO.

 

Leave Harbinger as it is. Merge The Bastion and Bergeren Colony.

 

Merge Ebon Hawk and Jung Ma. Merge Shadowlands, Jedi Covenant and Pot5.

 

 

Ideally, though, IMO, in a perfect world, BW resolves all the issue surrounding guild and personal transfers, adds one new larger, high capacity server on each coast and in Europe, and anyone wishing to can transfer to that new server. As people transfer and populations adjust, players may find that they are no longer happy on their current server and may choose to move to another., even if it is not the new server.

 

Those seems like fair points. I'm personally not in favor of mega servers or merging servers where the population is indeed healthy solely for the point it will put others out one way or another and I'm not entirely convinced the benefits would be as great as people make out.

I think the better benefit to queue times etc. as this stage is actually working on making the game more attractive to people to want to return to and queue for (or those aspects of the game).

Resources wasted on mega server is a band aid solution and not addressing the root problem.

 

In saying all that I do think the dead servers should be merged one way or another once the technical aspects are solved (if) or at the very least your idea + free one way transfer off the server for anyone who had an account there prior to the implementation of said warning system.

Edited by MeNaCe-NZ
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Would it be technically possible for the ignore function to not only hide the chat messages from ignored players but also hide the player itself and every action he does (like using mounts, AoEs etc.)? If yes, sounds like a good solution to me.
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Would it be technically possible for the ignore function to not only hide the chat messages from ignored players but also hide the player itself and every action he does (like using mounts, AoEs etc.)? If yes, sounds like a good solution to me.

 

How can you hide a player using a mount, Aoe, Emotes this is one of these posts that are so extreme they won't even make it to the wall of crazy.

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How can you hide a player using a mount, Aoe, Emotes this is one of these posts that are so extreme they won't even make it to the wall of crazy.

 

"Hide the player and associated actions from visibility". Doesn't sound overly complicated, especially considering the fact that there is already a limited amount of phasing present in the game (star fortress visibility on planets depending on the progress in story and whether the player already completed the quest to destroy it). Until now that's just a graphic template that's different, but that's why I'm asking if it could be extended.

 

There are 2 possible reasons the ignore functions doesn't work this way right now: It's not possible/too complicated and therefore not worth the effort, or the Devs deemed it not necessary because they didn't think emotes could annoy RPers. In the first case it's pointless to follow that line of thought any further, but in the second case it's probably good to raise the point.

Edited by Cruxa
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"Hide the player and associated actions from visibility". Doesn't sound overly complicated, especially considering the fact that there is already a limited amount of phasing present in the game (star fortress visibility on planets depending on the progress in story and whether the player already completed the quest to destroy it). Until now that's just a graphic template that's different, but that's why I'm asking if it could be extended.

 

There are 2 possible reasons the ignore functions doesn't work this way right now: It's not possible/too complicated and therefore not worth the effort, or the Devs deemed it not necessary because they didn't think emotes could annoy RPers. In the first case it's pointless to follow that line of thought any further, but in the second case it's probably good to raise the point.

 

What does your original comment have to do with a Server Merge discussion ? Btw I think we are on different planets because you are so far off base with asking about the most bizarre request about something that will never happen and for very obvious reasons.

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What does your original comment have to do with a Server Merge discussion ?

 

Well, that could be a possible solution for RPers being harassed by other players on megaservers. If you can't see and hear it, it can't troll you. Thought that would be obvious. ;)

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