Yep, so we don't need an exact timeline for the setting, because we're RPing outside of the actual setting. We can pick something reasonably close, and go from there, problem solved. See how easy that was?

Wrong. Not playing as a preset character doesn't make the entire RP an outside universe one.

Yep, so we don't need an exact timeline for the setting, because we're RPing outside of the actual setting. We can pick something reasonably close, and go from there, problem solved. See how easy that was?

No. We don't RP outside of the setting, for crying out loud. The setting we RP in is determined by SWTOR's story, but the mainstream RP community doesn't RP as the classes. I seriously don't know how the hell I can put this more clearly.

Wrong. Not playing as a preset character doesn't make the entire RP an outside universe one.

I am glad that at least you understand what I am talking about. I was slowly feeling my sanity slip there...

I have really tried to make you understand why knowing for example the date is important, yet you continue to refuse to move beyond the understanding of RPing as the classes. I have explained, patiently and elaborately, how the mainstream RP community does not RP as the classes, but that the setting the story in those classes and later expansions creates the rules we RP in. I have given you examples, I have given you links to study further, I have been as detailed as I can. However, there seems to be a fundamental lack of understanding between my meaning and your interpretation of my meaning. I cannot be faulted for having been to brief or unclear, as I have written multiple paragraphs trying to explain it to you.

 

As such, I will sadly have to ask that - if you cannot understand the difference I have been trying to explain nor why clarity in lore is of importance to the mainstream RP community - you don't oppose this. The establishment of an official date will not affect you in any significant way, but it would mean the world to the mainstream RP community. As such, if you can't understand or don't understand, then perphaps this thread is not for you. I am not saying that I am shooing you away, but I simply don't know what to do to help you understand. I have done my best, really, I did. Yet either you choose to not understand or you have never encountered the mainstream RP community.

You seem to be stuck on this notion of my sticking to class stories, and I'm really not. So let's try to break this down some, maybe it's the reason you're having so much trouble:

Because you're not sticking to the class stories, the exact timing of events has no bearing on your RP. Does your Imp side group meet on the fleet? Did you know it's possible, in the IA storyline, that the Fleet doesn't exist? "But we're not playing the story" doesn't matter if you're using what's happened in the setting, because this is a very real possibility. If you're just going to brush that off, that's fine, but that also means that you don't need an exact time line, since you're going to selectively ignore parts of it anyway. That's the way RP works, and why I went through the trouble of demonstrating an example of how to play in a world, w/out having to have that world control every aspect of what you can do, all in the name of RP.

Ya'll are writing your own fanfiction from within the game, take control and write it, instead of putting the impetus on someone else?

No. We don't RP outside of the setting, for crying out loud. The setting we RP in is determined by SWTOR's story, but the mainstream RP community doesn't RP as the classes. I seriously don't know how the hell I can put this more clearly.

 

 

 

I am glad that at least you understand what I am talking about. I was slowly feeling my sanity slip there...

You do RP outside of the setting, because you don't have the Wrath, or Darth Nox, despite having Sith Warriors and Inquisitors. This is outside of the story of the setting, and gives you tons of wiggle room on the timeline. Instead of asking to have that nailed down, and having that agency removed, I've been trying to figure out why you don't just grab a time and run with it. The entire game is a blank canvas, paint whatever picture you like.

You seem to be stuck on this notion of my sticking to class stories, and I'm really not. So let's try to break this down some, maybe it's the reason you're having so much trouble:

 

Because you're not sticking to the class stories, the exact timing of events has no bearing on your RP. Does your Imp side group meet on the fleet? Did you know it's possible, in the IA storyline, that the Fleet doesn't exist? "But we're not playing the story" doesn't matter if you're using what's happened in the setting, because this is a very real possibility. If you're just going to brush that off, that's fine, but that also means that you don't need an exact time line, since you're going to selectively ignore parts of it anyway. That's the way RP works, and why I went through the trouble of demonstrating an example of how to play in a world, w/out having to have that world control every aspect of what you can do, all in the name of RP.

 

Ya'll are writing your own fanfiction from within the game, take control and write it, instead of putting the impetus on someone else?

Read the RP Etiquette that the mainstream RP community follows, this is the link to it.

When the Mission to Onderon happens in Onslaught, our RP characters are affected by the events of the outcome. If for example Onderon sides with the Empire, that will have a bearing on the Sith Empire as a whole. As it has influence on the Sith Empire as a whole, it influences our characters. The lore of the setting shapes and creates the stories and guild story arcs that are created within the RP community.

For example, when the Dark Council was consolidated from 12 seats to 5, that had an impact on how RPers roleplayed their Sith characters. For example, Lord Ryssius was a member of the Sphere of Ancient Knowledge. When that was changed into the Sphere of Sith Doctrine, that means that my character Lord Ryssius became a member of the Sphere of Sith Doctrine instead, that is what the lore stipulates. It means that my character now has Darth Anathel sitting at the top of his Sphere of Influence. That is how the setting and lore impact and influence my originally created character.

Another example, when Zakuul attacked the Sith Empire and Galactic Republic, that had a huge impact on both factions. The guild arcs that guilds like House Horuset, The Qorit Network or the Lost Praxeum ran, would have to be changed to fit the new setting. Namely, a setting wherein the Republic and Empire were beaten down and bound by the treaties. That put limits on what an RP guild could do, for example, an RP guild couldn't roleplay that they had several Harrower-class Destroyers in their powerbase, as in the lore it was stated that the Imperial Fleet was downsized because of the Arms Limitations Statutes Zakuul had imposed on them.

Yet another example, when the resource crisis swept across the galaxy, RP huilds and characters had to reflect that aspect of the lore and setting. For example, guilds had to include in their RP that they didn't possess as much resources anymore, which also limited them in what they could do as a powerbase or organisation. For example, House Horuset - being part of the Sphere of Production and Logistics - was affected by the strained supply lines within the Empire. In this way, the lore of the setting influenced and impacted the RP in that RP guild and in the wider RP community.

As such, what in-universe year the present is in, impacts all the RP guilds and players in the mainstream RP community. If the lore states that it's 23 ATC, that is what the RP community will have to follow. If it is 24 ATC, idem dito. That is why we want to know, to have clarity instead of approximations, to have details instead of guesswork. It's not an issue of being too lazy to think it up ourselves, that is absolutely not the issue here. The issue is that we want clarity, so that we can create unity within the RP community. That way we won't have guild X RPing in 23 ATC while guild Y is in 25 ATC. We'll all be in 24 ATC, for example, if that is the official year.

You do RP outside of the setting, because you don't have the Wrath, or Darth Nox, despite having Sith Warriors and Inquisitors.

Here is the disconnect I think you are having: The universe DOES have Wrath and Nox in it, but they are not being played. They are in the same world, doing their class thing, at the same time that our RP character is doing their own thing on the other side of the planet.

Super simple example campaign setting for funzies:

Makeb is blowing up! Republic hero is somewhere there trying to save the day. Meanwhile oneshot party of this D&D campaign consists of mercenaries on Makeb working for the Hutts, doing their bidding for profit. Little ways into the campaign: Oh no, Imperial forces have assaulted Stronghold One! D&D players are sent to protect it. They were too late, the stronghold is already being flooded by lava. But we find a dying survivor! Players get to decide what to do with trapped Cytharat who got stuck there as GM chose dark side imperial universe events. Sometime later again: Planet is blowing up! Evacuate! But players havent been paid yet? Will they run from their post, risk it for the biscuit, or attempt daring heist on crumbling hutt vaults!? Oneshot ends.

Next oneshot takes place X years later as our mercenaries are hired to help Theron to put in motion a plan to betray the Mysterious Stranger aka Outlander! Yada yada Umbara and zildrog cult adventures, insert rest of campaign here I'm sure you get the jest.

You do RP outside of the setting, because you don't have the Wrath, or Darth Nox, despite having Sith Warriors and Inquisitors. This is outside of the story of the setting, and gives you tons of wiggle room on the timeline. Instead of asking to have that nailed down, and having that agency removed, I've been trying to figure out why you don't just grab a time and run with it. The entire game is a blank canvas, paint whatever picture you like.

I am going to explain this step by step:

1. The class stories, expansions and story updates in SWTOR create the setting of this game.

2. The events in the class stories, expansions and story updates in SWTOR influence the setting and the lore surrounding it, making some things possible while other impossible.

3. Mainstream roleplayers roleplay within the setting that the class stories, expansions and story updates in SWTOR create and influence, but they seperate their character from the character of the classes. They do not seperate themselves from the setting, they seperate their characters from those that the classes create, such as Lord Wrath, Darth Nox, the Barsen'tor, etc.

4. With those characters, roleplayers create their own original plotlines and story arcs between themselves and between their guilds. They do this by using the /say chat and writing out (or in other words, emoting out) their character's actions and speech.

5. This roleplay is unrelated to the classes themselves, but they happen in the world that SWTOR and the stories within the game create. When for example the Battle of Corellia (the one from the vanilla game) occurs, RPers will not play as the Hero of Tython, Darth Nox or the Lord Wrath, but they will roleplay someone in the background of that story. For example, back when the first Battle of Corellia was the most recent story content, an RP guild might have roleplayed in the background of the main story's events. So, while in-universe Darth Thanaton and Lord Kallig were dueling, an RP guild might have roleplayed invading a sector of Coronet City while that was happening, its roleplayers playing characters in that event as background characters.

6. To be able to play immersive and credible characters in the background of SWTOR's main story, roleplayers need to know what is going on in the lore and what is what. RP Etiquette demands that of roleplayers who do Heavy RP, to stick to lore as closely as possible.

Do you see now how you can roleplay as part of the setting, yet not roleplay as the classes? The mainstream RP community roleplays in the background of SWTOR's story. In this way, every aspect of SWTOR's lore influences RPers in the plotlines and story arcs they create together. If the lore says the date is 23 ATC, roleplayers have to adjust to that accordingly. Yet without such clarity, without official lore, the RP community must base itself upon approximations and guesses, which fracture the RP community as that stands in the way of coherence in the RP community. Guild X will interpret the ambiguity one way and guild Y will interpret it in another. As a result of that, both guilds may stop roleplaying together because guild Y follows a lore interpretation that does not align with the interpretation that guild X follows. As such, the roleplaying community becomes divided into camps that don't come together to roleplay.

Here is the disconnect I think you are having: The universe DOES have Wrath and Nox in it, but they are not being played. They are in the same world, doing their class thing, at the same time that our RP character is doing their own thing on the other side of the planet.

 

Super simple example campaign setting for funzies:

Makeb is blowing up! Republic hero is somewhere there trying to save the day. Meanwhile oneshot party of this D&D campaign consists of mercenaries on Makeb working for the Hutts, doing their bidding for profit. Little ways into the campaign: Oh no, Imperial forces have assaulted Stronghold One! D&D players are sent to protect it. They were too late, the stronghold is already being flooded by lava. But we find a dying survivor! Players get to decide what to do with trapped Cytharat who got stuck there as GM chose dark side imperial universe events. Sometime later again: Planet is blowing up! Evacuate! But players havent been paid yet? Will they run from their post, risk it for the biscuit, or attempt daring heist on crumbling hutt vaults!? Oneshot ends.

 

Next oneshot takes place X years later as our mercenaries are hired to help Theron to put in motion a plan to betray the Mysterious Stranger aka Outlander! Yada yada Umbara and zildrog cult adventures, insert rest of campaign here I'm sure you get the jest.

Yes, omg, this, this is what I mean, albeit the RP community would not actually involve itself too much with existing lore characters. However, the RP community is in the background of the existing lore characters.

At this point, after reading all of that, I'm starting to think that someone is being intentionally obtuse because this is not a hard concept to understand. Ylliarus and Kiesu have more than adequately explained it. To put it another way, the hard-core RP'ers (I don't like "mainstream" as that implies that other RP'ers are not mainstream, they are uncommon or irregular) play a character that exists in a world that has a Hero of Tython, a Barsen'thor, a Darth Nox, and a Lord Wrath (and all the others), but they are not those people. Those famous people are doing things in the Universe and the hard-core RP'ers are accessory characters who have to live with the aftermath of what those other people do. They're NPCs, so to speak, living in a living world where time progresses, where things happen that are out of their control, and they have to adjust to the circumstances.

This might not be the most accessible analogy, if you never played the game, but in The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind your player character was the reincarnated Nerevarine and there was an entire main story around that narrative. Sure, like most TES games, you could ignore the main story, but the option was always there for you to go pick it up and play it, and until you did certain events would never happen. Then someone decided, ya know what, ignoring the main story isn't good enough, and they made a mod that made Jiub, the Dunmer you meet at the start of the game, the Nerevarine. Your character was no longer the reincarnated Nerevarine, no longer the main character of the main story, and you could randomly run into Jiub out in the world doing Nerevarine things. Your character no longer goes and fights Dagoth Ur, Jiub does, and as a consequence the Ghostfence eventually goes down and the blight storms stop. All without the player character ever doing anything. You could sit in the tavern in Seyda Neen listening to Fargoth complain about their missing ring and just passing time and eventually the Ghostfence would go down. Because your player character is a nobody as far as the main story is concerned.

The way Ylliarus and Kiesu explain it makes it clear, there is a "main story" taking place, and events are happening, but their characters are not the main character in that story. They have their own story that occurs concurrently to that story. Which is why the passage of time, knowing when events happen, and trivial things like the year matter.

You would likely put me outside of the "mainstream" RP'ers, Ylliarus. Well, I would too since I don't RP with a guild and my RP exists in a state that is between full game setting and fabricated story. My RP exists in between firm lore and ambiguity. For me, while some ambiguity is necessary for flexibility in my own crafted stories, having established lore is also necessary for me to place those stories within the context of the game universe. For me, having a timeline, and knowing the year, are important to me to be able to put things into context and know when certain things are supposed to happen, or when events can happen that make sense within the universe I am working. If I'd call your style of RP hard-core then mine would certainly be soft-core (putting aside those connotations). I've done more hard-core RP'ing, back during my D&D days, but even then there was an established world into which my character had to fit. This is something I think is not being acknowledged. Whether I was playing a campaign set in the Forgotten Realms (which the DM I played with loved so that's where almost every story was set) or some home brewed campaign, there was still a world built up to accommodate that story. You are playing out stories within an established universe that has the passage of time, that has things happening in it that you are not involved with, and that you have to react to. And that can be hard to do if you don't know something as simple as the year.

I wish the game had two features. First has to do with the in-game story. I wish we had personal codex entries that detailed events in-game that we did. Did my Consular choose the light or dark option at the end of chapter 1? Can't remember, just go check the personal codex entries. While I pretty much know what choices I made with my main Sage, I have seven Consulars and I've picked many different options across those characters. Sometimes I don't remember if this is the one who did something this way or that. The second thing I'd like to have is a place to write a personal biography. A place were someone could, for RP purposes, write out their character's story. DDO is great for that and other players could read your bio by examining your character. Both would be great for hard and soft RP'ers alike.

At this point, after reading all of that, I'm starting to think that someone is being intentionally obtuse because this is not a hard concept to understand. Ylliarus and Kiesu have more than adequately explained it. To put it another way, the hard-core RP'ers (I don't like "mainstream" as that implies that other RP'ers are not mainstream, they are uncommon or irregular) play a character that exists in a world that has a Hero of Tython, a Barsen'thor, a Darth Nox, and a Lord Wrath (and all the others), but they are not those people. Those famous people are doing things in the Universe and the hard-core RP'ers are accessory characters who have to live with the aftermath of what those other people do. They're NPCs, so to speak, living in a living world where time progresses, where things happen that are out of their control, and they have to adjust to the circumstances.

First of all, let me say that "mainstream" is perhaps indeed the incorrect term to use here, as it is subjective to the person. What I consider mainstream might be alternative to you and vice versa. Perhaps the better terms to use here are Heavy RPer, Medium RPer and Light RPer. I admit my use of the term "mainstream RPer" needed correction, so thanks for that!

And yes, I am so glad you put it that way, as that is exactly what I was speaking of. As you say, in the Heavy RP I speak of, characters like Darth Nox, the Hero of Tython or the Outlander/Commander exist in the background of the stories the RP community creates, yet they serve as the backdrop in which we play. But, in actuality the RP community is in the backdrop of the main SWTOR story. It is happening concurrently with our own stories and as such, influences the setting we RP in. I am very happy that you wrote your understanding of what I was speaking in the way you did. At some point I also started feeling as if the lack of understanding was more on purpose rather than by accident. Unless (and that is of course a possibility) I did a really bad job at explaining xD

This might not be the most accessible analogy, if you never played the game, but in The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind your player character was the reincarnated Nerevarine and there was an entire main story around that narrative. Sure, like most TES games, you could ignore the main story, but the option was always there for you to go pick it up and play it, and until you did certain events would never happen. Then someone decided, ya know what, ignoring the main story isn't good enough, and they made a mod that made Jiub, the Dunmer you meet at the start of the game, the Nerevarine. Your character was no longer the reincarnated Nerevarine, no longer the main character of the main story, and you could randomly run into Jiub out in the world doing Nerevarine things. Your character no longer goes and fights Dagoth Ur, Jiub does, and as a consequence the Ghostfence eventually goes down and the blight storms stop. All without the player character ever doing anything. You could sit in the tavern in Seyda Neen listening to Fargoth complain about their missing ring and just passing time and eventually the Ghostfence would go down. Because your player character is a nobody as far as the main story is concerned.

No, this is actually a great analogy for the Heavy RP I tried to describe yesterday. A heavy RP guild like House Horuset would simply be a Sith powerbase in the backdrop of the main events of SWTOR's story. What happens in the main story influences and creates the setting that guild roleplays in. The same goes for every other RP guild in our community.

As such, it is why it's important for us to know certain things regarding lore. One of the issues at the moment, for example, is the question whether Empress Acina is the "canon" ruler of the Sith or Emperor Vowrawn. The question wasn't as pressing when it was just names you could swap out with one another. RPers often referred to the ruler of the Sith as "the Throne" or "the Crown" or something along those lines of ambiguity. However, with the State of the Galaxy thread preceding Jedi Under Siege, the nature of the Empire shifts along with who is Emperor or Empress. The Sith Empire displays a lot more unity and cooperation under Empress Acina, while under Emperor Vowrawn it's back to the days of backstabbing and intrigues. That changes the setting significantly enough that it may create continuity problems as a whole for the RP community. For example, one guild on the Darth Malgus RP community follows the continuity that Empress Acina is ruler, while another follows that Emperor Vowrawn is the one sitting upon the Imperial Throne. Specific name-dropping can be and should be avoided in this situation, yet one guild will be RPing in a more unified Sith Empire while the other RPs in a backstabbery one. When those two guilds interact, their continuities may clash, which fragments an already fragile community of players.

And I have seen some posters here simply say "well, gather everyone and decide upon what continuity the community follows". Those who say that have absolutely no idea what the RP community is like. Consensus on such matters is simply almost impossible to reach, as the guild that already chose to follow Empress Acina as the canon version, will not want to shift to Emperor Vowrawn as the canon one unless lore stipulates that one or the other is the canon version. Which is why heavy RPers want a canon version of the Iokath choice so badly. It would solve the issue of diverging continuities for them.

The way Ylliarus and Kiesu explain it makes it clear, there is a "main story" taking place, and events are happening, but their characters are not the main character in that story. They have their own story that occurs concurrently to that story. Which is why the passage of time, knowing when events happen, and trivial things like the year matter.

Yes, exactly! Some ambiguity can be avoided within the RP that people in the heavy RP community create, but at some point clarity will be necessary. Especially if the various guilds and individuals in the community are to remain together and roleplay together. What the RP community does not want, is every RP guild being an isolated island where there is no cross-guild interaction. And without clarity from the lore, that is something that may happen. As I said, a guild that follows a different lore continuity than another may refuse to interact with players from said guild.

You would likely put me outside of the "mainstream" RP'ers, Ylliarus. Well, I would too since I don't RP with a guild and my RP exists in a state that is between full game setting and fabricated story. My RP exists in between firm lore and ambiguity. For me, while some ambiguity is necessary for flexibility in my own crafted stories, having established lore is also necessary for me to place those stories within the context of the game universe. For me, having a timeline, and knowing the year, are important to me to be able to put things into context and know when certain things are supposed to happen, or when events can happen that make sense within the universe I am working. If I'd call your style of RP hard-core then mine would certainly be soft-core (putting aside those connotations). I've done more hard-core RP'ing, back during my D&D days, but even then there was an established world into which my character had to fit. This is something I think is not being acknowledged. Whether I was playing a campaign set in the Forgotten Realms (which the DM I played with loved so that's where almost every story was set) or some home brewed campaign, there was still a world built up to accommodate that story. You are playing out stories within an established universe that has the passage of time, that has things happening in it that you are not involved with, and that you have to react to. And that can be hard to do if you don't know something as simple as the year.

I agree that I should not have used the term "mainstream", as your RP is no less valid that the RP I have done in the pass. Both are equally valuable and worthy, especially if each allows us to have fun our own way

Yet what you say about ambiguity also applies to the heavy RP community I speak of. I realise I may sound as if I am contradicting myself, but that is not the case. The balance between clarity in lore and ambiguity within it, goes up for a heavy RP community like on the Darth Malgus server as well. A lot of the characters that players have created there are able to exist as a result of certain ambiguous aspects of lore.

For example, all of the Darth characters to roleplayers roleplay, can be Darths because the lore doesn't put a clear number on the amount of Darths within the Empire. We know the rules surrounding Darthhood, we know that they are the elite of the Sith Order. But we also know there is still a significant amount of Darths within the Empire, which enables roleplayers to RP characters of such a rank, without infringing upon the lore. This is not the case with the Dark Council, for example. Not only is the Dark Council the ruling body of the Sith Empire, but it also has a specific and strict amount of members. Say a roleplayer would want to RP their character as part of the Dark Council, this would not only giving them a lot of power over the characters of other players in the Darth Malgus RP community in-universe (as they would be a member of the ruling body) but this would also infringe upon the lore of the universe. As that character would have to have a mention in the game or the lore, as a person of note. As such, there is no ambiguity that creates room to wiggle in unnoticed in terms of visibility in lore. This room does exist when it comes to playing a simple Darth or Lord of the Sith. There are thousands if not tens of thousands of them, that creates room to move around in without having to become "visible" within the lore.

So, a roleplayer will likely never want an answer on the question "how many Darths are there in the Empire" as an official answer there might take away the room to be flexible within. However, ambiguity regarding who the "canon" ruler of the Sith Empire is or what its "canon" nature is as a result of who the ruler is, create problematic ambiguity for the heavy RP community. As such, there is ambiguity that is useful to the RP community as it enables it to exists, but there is also a need for clarity, the official in-universe year for example being one such a case.

I wish the game had two features. First has to do with the in-game story. I wish we had personal codex entries that detailed events in-game that we did. Did my Consular choose the light or dark option at the end of chapter 1? Can't remember, just go check the personal codex entries. While I pretty much know what choices I made with my main Sage, I have seven Consulars and I've picked many different options across those characters. Sometimes I don't remember if this is the one who did something this way or that. The second thing I'd like to have is a place to write a personal biography. A place were someone could, for RP purposes, write out their character's story. DDO is great for that and other players could read your bio by examining your character. Both would be great for hard and soft RP'ers alike.

Yes, absolutely! A personal codex that keeps track of all your choices would be an excellent thing to have! Especially in a situation where a player has multiple versions of the same class. In such a case, one might need a little reminder in the form of a personal codex entry to keep track of which choices was made for which character. I fully support that idea!

And absolutely, I would love to be able to write a personal biography ingame and a lot of heavy RPers are of a similar opinion. I had once suggested it in the Suggestion Box here on the forums and Charles Boyd had even replied that he would love such a feature ingame. However, this was already years ago and since then, we have not heard anything about something like that being on the agenda, sadly

I also don't get what's so hard to understand about what Ylliarus and Kiesu explained.

I'm not a RPer, in the sense i don't RP with other people, but i like writting stuff.

And inthe context of what i'm writting, my main JK for instance is my universe's Hero of Tython and Alliance Commander, my main SW is this universe's Wrath but not the Commander, but my secondary characters also live in that same universe while being completely different persons than the class characters.

For instance, my main IA, an operative, is Cypher 9, but my secondary IA, a sniper, is actually not an IA, he's just an imperial soldier, going where he needs to be to fight for the Empire, but with absolutely no tie to the IA's actual story. His main purpose is filling my story's universe, he's mostly on the companion / NPC level, he would probably mostly be a Republic Trooper counterpart in the Empire.

And while i'd have chapter focusing on the main cast, some would focus on the other characters.

So for me as well, knowing the passing of time would actually be very usefull.

I'd add that having completely different outcomes depending on wether my character was imp or pub is also pretty annoying to me.

In the setting of my story, my main decided to side with the Republic, having Vowrawn as the new Emperor, up to that it's alright for all my toons, all i have to do is side with the Republic on Iokath to have an identical setting for everyone included in the story.

But after that it starts to get messy. On my pub characters, Gnost-Dural is free and well and appointed Arn as Tau's Padawan, Malora is locked somewhere and Savik joined the Alliance.

But on my imps, even if they're saboteur and so supprting the Republic, G-D is either dead or imprisonned, Malora is either free or joined the Alliance, Tau doesn't have a Padawan and Savik is most probably dead...

I'm still trying to understand the opposing argument. It costs virtually nothing for BioWare to offer an official timeline for the game, and for someone like Boyd to tell us what year we're in. Even if it were true that RPers play outside of the established storyline (they do not), why is it a bad thing for us to get an official year, and why should we not?

I don't really get the anti-RP sentiment.

I also don't get what's so hard to understand about what Ylliarus and Kiesu explained.

I'm not a RPer, in the sense i don't RP with other people, but i like writting stuff.

I am glad to see I was not as unclear as I feared to be

And while i'd have chapter focusing on the main cast, some would focus on the other characters.

So for me as well, knowing the passing of time would actually be very usefull.

The argument became a little focused on RPers in particular, but I am sure that even those that do Light RP or don't even RP at all, but are interested and invested into the story, would like to know the current in-universe year. It's very much like Jedimasterjac said:

It costs virtually nothing for BioWare to offer an official timeline for the game, and for someone like Boyd to tell us what year we're in.

Exactly! It would be more than sufficient if Charles Boyd or someone else from the story team would post the current in-universe year in this thread. They could perhaps create a brief overview of how they see the timeline and where all the expansion and story updates fit in year-wise and post it in here. At most, it would cost only a little bit of fingerwork to type it out that's the only cost there is to posting it for example here.

Even if it were true that RPers play outside of the established storyline (they do not), why is it a bad thing for us to get an official year, and why should we not?

 

I don't really get the anti-RP sentiment.

I hope it's not so much an anti-RP sentiment as simple misunderstanding of why such details in lore are important to RPers, be they heavy RPers like I used to be or Light RPers like others in this thread.

Exactly! It would be more than sufficient if Charles Boyd or someone else from the story team would post the current in-universe year in this thread. They could perhaps create a brief overview of how they see the timeline and where all the expansion and story updates fit in year-wise and post it in here. At most, it would cost only a little bit of fingerwork to type it out that's the only cost there is to posting it for example here.

I seem to remember another thread where you tweeted at Charles Boyd and he responded; have you tried tweeting him to ask what current year it is, in-game? (Sorry if someone already brought this up in the thread; I haven't read through every post.)

Something i do tend to notice with some people that RP and their backgrounds they come up with tend to completely contradict things in game, like sayng you're from a noble house on alderaan yet, when your character in game has never even been there or ever knows what is going on there

Which doesn't have much relevance to the question at hand. Some roleplayers having dubious backstories doesn't mean that roleplayers, as a whole, do not benefit from access to information (such as the current year) which helps keep the universe more cogent.

I seem to remember another thread where you tweeted at Charles Boyd and he responded; have you tried tweeting him to ask what current year it is, in-game? (Sorry if someone already brought this up in the thread; I haven't read through every post.)

No, that's okay! No problem I have been trying to entice a response from Mr. Boyd, but my tweets to him from the last few days have remained unanswered I have tweeted him today with a link to this thread, maybe he hasn't noticed it yet!

Something i do tend to notice with some people that RP and their backgrounds they come up with tend to completely contradict things in game, like sayng you're from a noble house on alderaan yet, when your character in game has never even been there or ever knows what is going on there

*sigh* this is what I have been trying to explain yesterday. RPers don't play as the class stories, they create their own original stories among guild members or other RPers outside of the class stories. They create story arcs, events or personal storylines in the background of the class stories.

So, for example, an RP guild will roleplay as a noble house on Alderaan. Some players will roleplay the actual family members of that family, others will RP the attendants, or security or some sort of rivaling House. All of this happens in the background of the class stories, but they don't roleplay the class stories themselves. So they won't be playing as the Smuggler, the Jedi Knight or the Sith Inquisitor, but they will roleplay a noble from Alderaan who exists in the background of SWTOR's story, but obviously is influenced by the events of the class stories and expansions. So in the background of that noble character, they will have lived on Alderaan their entire life. Because that character is roleplayed as separate from the class story or expansion, but within its setting, as part of the story's background.

So in other words, in that example, the noble character is not the class that player uses. The class and noble character are two separate characters that way. In a sense, you could see that player's toon assuming a different role, like an actor. For example, Ian McDarmid and Emperor Palpatine are not the same person, obviously. The former assumes the role of the latter. In heavy RP, RPers use for example a Smuggler to take on the role of an Alderaanian noble. But the Smuggler is not the noble. However, the class story of the Smuggler may create lore content that influences how the Alderaanian noble is played. If for example in future story content Alderaan is conquered by the Hutts (with Dasty as the Archon of Alderaan *raises martini*), then the Alderaanian noble character will have to reflect that development of the lore in their story.

Something i do tend to notice with some people that RP and their backgrounds they come up with tend to completely contradict things in game, like sayng you're from a noble house on alderaan yet, when your character in game has never even been there or ever knows what is going on there

Thing is, it's open enough for your character to possibly be from Alderaan, even in the context of a class character.

Some of their answers would clearly indicate they've never been there, while picking the others could indicate otherwise.

Thing is, it's open enough for your character to possibly be from Alderaan, even in the context of a class character.

Some of their answers would clearly indicate they've never been there, while picking the others could indicate otherwise.

That is true if you are an RPer that simply RPs the class. But that's not what heavy RPers do, they play as a character separate from the class story. They simply use that particular toon to assume the role of an Alderaanian noble, for example, but any role can be assumed really: a senator, a businessman, a freight captain or a simple civilian. The roleplay they do is separate from the class stories, but entirely influenced by what lore the class stories and expansions create.

The argument became a little focused on RPers in particular, but I am sure that even those that do Light RP or don't even RP at all, but are interested and invested into the story, would like to know the current in-universe year.

Yeaaah that RP insistence was probably all me. I like D&D a lot. Like a lot a lot. And lot of my characters may live and die just for one gaming session. Cant get too attached when their life is literally tied to dice! Makes everything more exciting when your character is still a mortal who can die at any time. Rises the stakes of every decision, thrilling! It's the only thing I don't like about most fanfiction, the plot armor is too strong there. Makes things predictable. Like most Netflix originals (lol). (if someone has red wedding style everyone-dies fic suggestions, throw them my way )

Anyway. From D&D standpoint we mostly can't reuse characters with the timeskip+everything after since its so unclear where everything is. It's a bummer for sure.

Yeaaah that RP insistence was probably all me. I like D&D a lot. Like a lot a lot. And lot of my characters may live and die just for one gaming session. Cant get too attached when their life is literally tied to dice! Makes everything more exciting when your character is still a mortal who can die at any time. Rises the stakes of every decision, thrilling! It's the only thing I don't like about most fanfiction, the plot armor is too strong there. Makes things predictable. Like most Netflix originals (lol). (if someone has red wedding style everyone-dies fic suggestions, throw them my way )

 

Anyway. From D&D standpoint we mostly can't reuse characters with the timeskip+everything after since its so unclear where everything is. It's a bummer for sure.

Which shows that the issue is not only relevant for the RPers I spoke of (the heavy RP roleplayers) but all kinds of players who love SWTOR for the story or who love to write about the story themselves. Having clarity regarding the timeline simply helps the immersion, the credibility of the story.

Sadly, no response from Charles Boyd over Twitter about this issue yet. But that's understandable! It's been the weekend so I can imagine even the devs want to take a break from their work when they're off on the weekends. Or well, I assume they're off on the weekends...

Anyway, I will try to tweet this thread and its topic at Charles Boyd tomorrow again. Perhaps he'll notice it then! And there really are a lot of players who would like answer on this question. It's not an issue that will go away at some point, as players will keep asking about this and will want to have an answer. The RP community alone keeps asking this question in Discord servers and chats. I don't see why the the devs can't come out with an answer as to the in-universe date, it would clear up a lot of confusion and speculation!

Sadly, no response from Charles Boyd over Twitter about this issue yet. But that's understandable! It's been the weekend so I can imagine even the devs want to take a break from their work when they're off on the weekends. Or well, I assume they're off on the weekends...

 

Anyway, I will try to tweet this thread and its topic at Charles Boyd tomorrow again. Perhaps he'll notice it then! And there really are a lot of players who would like answer on this question. It's not an issue that will go away at some point, as players will keep asking about this and will want to have an answer. The RP community alone keeps asking this question in Discord servers and chats. I don't see why the the devs can't come out with an answer as to the in-universe date, it would clear up a lot of confusion and speculation!

Tomorrow, 24 May, is a holiday in the States (Memorial Day). The BW offices may be closed.

Tomorrow, 24 May, is a holiday in the States (Memorial Day). The BW offices may be closed.

Ah, noted! Then I will try the day after or somewhere else next week!

Yesterday there was a brief discussion going on in one of the RP servers I am a part of. It was a friendly discussion between roleplayers while debating the issue of the in-universe year, but it just showed how much confusion there exists.

The issue arose because Wookieepedia lists the events of Onslaught happening in 23 ATC on one page, but simultaneously also states they happen in 24 ATC on another one. Which shows that even on sites that work to convey the lore of Star Wars in the most accurate way are confused on this topic.

It's why it would help the lore of the game tremendously if the story team told us their perspective on how the timeline looks. If the story team shared their thoughts on what year SWTOR currently is in, that would help to clarify things immensely.

I know this will basically count as a bump, but this is a topic that a lot of players - myself included - care about. It's not a matter of urgency of course, but it would be really great to have some clarity regarding the matter.

And I can't imagine it would be too much to ask to have a short post outlining where the story team's thoughts are at regarding the timeline and what in-universe year the most recent story takes place in.