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Premades are hurting pvp participation


ralphieceaser

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there is no real proof that would be the case and if it happens that is specifically because the ones getting easy mode now wont be able to take advantage of wins only streaks against poor poor players with a couple of good players each match so will leave the match queues not because of any other reason...

 

 

and those who do not like the current match queue system would return to play... and if you want to duel... warzones are not the place for it... these instances are to be managed by objectives which is another thing even good players do not want to do... they just want to kill farm or ignore objectives and hope they win still... people have even gotten bans for kill farming...

 

So your argument is moot!

 

You do know there's a bunch of nodes you can click endlessly in the game if you want.

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if they are farming kills then why are you complaining? Still leaves a fair chance of winning? And yeah, you know how I know that is what would happen, with the duels and all? Because that what I'd do. For me PvP has nothing to do with objectives, either you kill them or you get killed - nothing more, nothing less.

 

Getting banned for kill farming, sure sure, when nobody gets banned for throwing 2 THOUSAND solo ranked games like the m-boy on SF.

 

before you comment on a single post please read the entire thread so you can be up to speed instead of slamming a single comment the in thesis that is this thread!

 

Contribute to the argument in a constructive way or save your comments for another post that is more relevant! and again seems you do better attacking the author than the topic!

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Premade against PUG is just unfair imo. In PUG, you team up with random strangers and you might not know how they play. In a premade, you can strategize better (via discord voice call or other similar apps). In a PUG, the best you can do is via the in game chat and even that is the problem: players dont know how to call, players dont know how to setup their chat so the intended message is lost amongst "An enemy is invincible" lines...etc. Unless some of yall want PUG to start asking for discord names to join during wz.

 

I'd really like to advocate for separate queue: random PUGs and premades. But as someone already mentioned, I dont think the game's population can deal with it, we will have very long queue time. TDM premade , who ignore objectives and stroke their egos with no. of kills/highest DPS...etc, is even worse.

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before you comment on a single post please read the entire thread so you can be up to speed instead of slamming a single comment the in thesis that is this thread!

 

Contribute to the argument in a constructive way or save your comments for another post that is more relevant! and again seems you do better attacking the author than the topic!

 

I mean I did read it? Also I didn't attack you, I wouldn't know how. I see the problem, but you can't stop people from playing with their friends bro, if I do a few games after raid ends and some people from the team want to join, of course we won't care about objectives - we just chill and have a blast trolling each other or something, nobody goes around calling "yea lets kill that specific guy over and over again". If other groups gonna farm dmg they gonna farm dmg, if they doing objectives they do objectives, just play your game why look at what others do at all? Furthermore I highly doubt farming pugs "strokes their ego", they just want to have fun. If they kill you over and over again it is what it is, hope you get them next game and move on.

 

What I am saying is there are premades in everygame, you just remember the ones that steamrolled your team. It is not fair to punish all premades for the things maybe 10 premades do. The question "why is my team so bad/not doing objectives?" is never to ask, you should be asking "why wasn't I good enough to carry my team and what can I do to do it next time?". Of course vs. quad premade you can do very little, but quad premades aren't the majority.

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I mean I did read it? Also I didn't attack you, I wouldn't know how. I see the problem, but you can't stop people from playing with their friends bro, if I do a few games after raid ends and some people from the team want to join, of course we won't care about objectives - we just chill and have a blast trolling each other or something, nobody goes around calling "yea lets kill that specific guy over and over again". If other groups gonna farm dmg they gonna farm dmg, if they doing objectives they do objectives, just play your game why look at what others do at all? Furthermore I highly doubt farming pugs "strokes their ego", they just want to have fun. If they kill you over and over again it is what it is, hope you get them next game and move on.

 

What I am saying is there are premades in everygame, you just remember the ones that steamrolled your team. It is not fair to punish all premades for the things maybe 10 premades do. The question "why is my team so bad/not doing objectives?" is never to ask, you should be asking "why wasn't I good enough to carry my team and what can I do to do it next time?". Of course vs. quad premade you can do very little, but quad premades aren't the majority.

 

Friends can play with Friends or premades as it were...but only if they are playing against other friends who play together... and we could say the queues would die in 2.0-4.0 but now the population is soo huge i doubt we will even see an affect... well maybe just maybe there would be slower queues for grouped vs solo... but again you dont match heavy weight boxers with light weight ones and call it a balanced match... especially since the devs through a spokesperson has already stated groups are given priority over non groups... in match selections!

 

And dont forget people would be in 8 man ops groups cheesing the queue match selection process...

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Friends can play with Friends or premades as it were...but only if they are playing against other friends who play together

 

Nah, why would anybody do this then. We'd just do FPs instead, why would we want to wait 15 minutes just so we get vs a sweaty tryhard team when we just want to chill. We're not even talking about the pvp match, we are just hanging out.

 

I don't see why you don't want people to play with their friends just because in 1/10 games you are vs a premade that is just killing you over and over again. And then how do you fill the premade games? Is it just 7v8 then since nobody is able to get a backfill? I don't think you thought this through and I think you are just mad because you lost games vs a premade, its really not that bad, maybe 1/10 games at maximum gets unfair.

 

Could always queue solo ranked if you don't want premades idk.

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We'd just do FPs instead

 

No you wouldn't

 

If all you wanted to do is be in the same match then its not hard to sync pops over comms

 

If you didn't care about the match you wouldn't care if you were up against "sweaty try hards"

 

Separate queues, one stays as it is just now the other is for solo players

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I propose 2 changes:

1. throw all regs premades into granked queue, this way **** tier, dodging, noob farming pvp guilds can get off their regstar ego trip and have a taste of the real world. looking at indica, reign of darkness, reactor, cherry pops, etc.

2. literally delete the objectives from regs, can only win off kill points now. that way these swamp creatures can stop using them as an excuse for doing sub 2k dps. I've seen when u mfs get thrown into arenas, it's not because you're "objective players" it's because you're hopelessly dog**** and you basic attack off cooldown and triple stack your cooldowns if you press them at all.

Edited by cflems
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No you wouldn't

 

If all you wanted to do is be in the same match then its not hard to sync pops over comms

 

If you didn't care about the match you wouldn't care if you were up against "sweaty try hards"

 

Separate queues, one stays as it is just now the other is for solo players

 

Sure, because q-sync makes us be in the same team. Yea of course it sucks if you are vs double AP + pocket healer when your team didn't bother making a proper comp bc you just wanna pepega for fun.

 

If you don't want to be in games with premades just queue solo ranked.

 

I feel like this debate is pretty one sided though, if people want to do premades then just let them have their fun. Why is it not acceptable with your enjoyment? Just ignore the premade, why do you have to gatekeep playing with other people in a mmo???

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I propose 2 changes:

2. literally delete the objectives from regs, can only win off kill points now. that way these swamp creatures can stop using them as an excuse for doing sub 2k dps. I've seen when u mfs get thrown into arenas, it's not because you're "objective players" it's because you're hopelessly dog**** and you basic attack off cooldown and triple stack your cooldowns if you press them at all.

 

 

Sir I'll have you know 2k DPS is hard to hit. I don't see how that's possible even with full battle master gear and expertise.

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Since this dood is still crying about premades months later, I have to come back here and say, premades aren't the issue. Two weeks ago I was queuing dps with a healer friend and I think I finished about 5 or 6 weeklies, so we probably won about 20 or 25 matches, and faced plenty of premades along the way. This week I struggled to finish two weeklies. We had the same comp but the healer was getting destroyed. So I swapped to tank and I was doing top dmg on my team as a tank only hitting like 7k or 8k dps. Our dps teammates were doing about half what I was while playing a tank...so ye match making is an issue. The other issue is just ppl playing wzs who don't know how to pvp in this game. As Snave has mentioned the pvp community is dead because of 8v8s going away, and there's nobody to teach players who are interested in pvp. Now it's just random conquest bot guilds the majority of which don't help their members L2P. Edited by Samcuu
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Or maby BIO can fix so only premade groups on both sides.

 

But he said he was vs premades? So its already happening just that one premade is killing you and the other is afk-ing at pylons. I think what you don't like is getting smashed, regardless of premades, regardless of win/lose, where I therefore have to agree with his final suggestion.

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  • 3 weeks later...
there should be no priorities of any sort when match queue is being selected... it should be first enter first fill! stats groups and the like should not be given priority and a group and solo match queue should be added. and the reason group queues die is becuase these people who use stacked teams do not want to lose their easy mode against players who are training or need to learn while those that solo get bunched with them and have to play a 1 v7 1 v 6 most of all matched then their are those who refuse to do objectives cause they there to kill only... so maybe even add a arena queue for those who do not want to do objective pvp
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Disagree. The way that the queue works now is that it does try to match premades vs other premades. Issue you get tho is uneven premades facing eachother. For example I was queuing with just a healer friend on a dps toon. We kept getting matched against strong 4 man premades all night, and we were stuck with pugs doing 2k dps. It was a rough night to say the least. The queues are working to a certain extent but I don't think there will ever be a perfect way to balance the queues unless the pvp community has a big increase in population.

 

I think one thing that could possibly help is cross server queuing....but I've heard that's probably never going to happen for reasons. The more wzs going at once the better it will be imo.

 

The one thing I'll say about the way the queues work that annoys me tho is that it seems arenas only pop as a last resort. I'd like to see all the wzs given equal priority, it would be way more interesting to get a couple arenas in a row as opposed to the consistent Voidstar/Ancient Hypergate train that pops.

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there should be no priorities of any sort when match queue is being selected... it should be first enter first fill! stats groups and the like should not be given priority and a group and solo match queue should be added. and the reason group queues die is becuase these people who use stacked teams do not want to lose their easy mode against players who are training or need to learn while those that solo get bunched with them and have to play a 1 v7 1 v 6 most of all matched then their are those who refuse to do objectives cause they there to kill only... so maybe even add a arena queue for those who do not want to do objective pvp

 

This 100%, limiting anything in PVP always kills PVP. IN EVERY GAME EVER! Being able to queue particular WZs would be an optimal change, then the players could decide which ones they enjoy on repeat.

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This 100%, limiting anything in PVP always kills PVP. IN EVERY GAME EVER! Being able to queue particular WZs would be an optimal change, then the players could decide which ones they enjoy on repeat.

 

becuause those that want easy mode leave the arena of play they do not want to earn their wins... they want to have domination over their enemies...

 

not for any other reason... but those that see the queues and teams are balanced would return to pvp and maybe even more will start playing... even now pvpis dying cuase of the method it is now

 

the queues have slowed or the same people play over and over....

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  • 10 months later...
On 11/30/2021 at 6:38 AM, ralphieceaser said:

By making the weekly require wins only to count, we have seen an increased amount of premades farming quick wins since premades are always more organized and focused, often times literally steamrolling the enemy team to the point everyone realizes it is pointless and afk.

 

Worse though is the fact that when people keep seeing the same names in the enemy team steamrolling them they are starting to stop quing because it is never fun to have a pug vs premade and there is no point getting destroyed.

 

The premades are causing such a big problem that people stop queing to avoid them

 

And we go from 8v8 warzones to suddenly non stop arena matches on high activity times, either let losses count or ban premades from queing together.

 

EXACTAMUNDO...

It is now very apparent that premades are being matched up against non premades more consistently and causing group imbalances  and people dropping or short members in arena queues...

 

THE ONLY REAL SOLUTION to premades is they can only battle it out in a PREMADE or GROUP Queue and are never allowed to be matched up to people queuing without a group....  

No sports match is played with pros against non pros or NBA vs College... or 8 v 6 etc.

 

these premades make these queues unbalanced and you cannot rely on a program to determine based on stats how a group makeup should be formed....

and if you do not want to make a queue for groups only then you need to provide a queue for those who do not wish to battle it out against groups all day with low winning percentages for taking advantage of a programming flaw Bioware refuses to repair... make a queue for those who are only solos.

The current system is well only working for a small group of people and has cause queue disruptions even during prime times

 

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On 4/14/2022 at 12:32 PM, afwhoefuwov said:

Premade against PUG is just unfair imo. In PUG, you team up with random strangers and you might not know how they play. In a premade, you can strategize better (via discord voice call or other similar apps). In a PUG, the best you can do is via the in game chat and even that is the problem: players dont know how to call, players dont know how to setup their chat so the intended message is lost amongst "An enemy is invincible" lines...etc. Unless some of yall want PUG to start asking for discord names to join during wz.

 

I'd really like to advocate for separate queue: random PUGs and premades. But as someone already mentioned, I dont think the game's population can deal with it, we will have very long queue time. TDM premade , who ignore objectives and stroke their egos with no. of kills/highest DPS...etc, is even worse.

The queues are majorly damage right now with the current broken system...

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On 11/30/2021 at 11:40 AM, Floplag said:

Youre right of course, but youre also beating a dead horse that goes nowhere.

Besides, premades are not the real problem, match making is, or rather lack thereof.

tis true it is matchmaking and its a simple fix.... all groups should only be able to queue for group pvp content... 

This current matchmaking and queuing system encourages cheating and team stack and group queue syncing and the other comment is also right the same group of premades are doing all the winning... but this is balance and seems fair. and it has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with two tanks and two healers on one team and all dps on the other and they are in comms our team has some new people that is not balance...

 

I THINK BIOWARE is ENCOURAGING THIS and if you are not you need to prove it by working diligently and hard to adresss and fix this matter. 

 

Further the notion it will hurt the queue pops is ridiculous more people would come back to pvp if it was actually fair balanced and more aligned with gearing as the rest of the game is...

but cheating bolster stats cause accuracy is not really required... stacking teams causing the remainder players some unskillfull to have to compete against teams that are in communications... etc...

Its putting college up against Pro teams... its not done... but Bioware thinks its okay!

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Premades are not Pros, Premades are not evil, Premades are not trying to ruin your fun, Premades are just enjoying a recreational product they purchased for fun and enjoyment.  

Make some friends, group up and have fun.  Stop being critical of other people enjoying  an MMO as it was meant to be played; with a group.

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35 minutes ago, Tasaas said:

Premades are not Pros, Premades are not evil, Premades are not trying to ruin your fun, Premades are just enjoying a recreational product they purchased for fun and enjoyment.  

Make some friends, group up and have fun.  Stop being critical of other people enjoying  an MMO as it was meant to be played; with a group.

Premades do have a clear advantage, and they do discourage people who want to solo queue from wanting to pvp. 

Of course, most people in premade groups are not evil, but many of them group up for the expressed purpose of having an advantage over other players who solo queue.  

The simple solution would be to have separate queues for premade groups.  That would allow those that just want to play with friends to have there fun without having that fun at the expense of others. 

I also wonder, I see your tag line stating that solos ruin pvp.  Why then is it that don't you advocate for a premade only queue?

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1 hour ago, Exly said:

 

I also wonder, I see your tag line stating that solos ruin pvp.  Why then is it that don't you advocate for a premade only queue?

My signature is just plain stupid, just like the anti-premade movement.

 

The anti-premades have done more damage to PVP than any group of players ever has. 

 

You will now see in an arena/warzone chat, "you suck premade" or "eat it premade" or "L2P premade losers"

 

In my time in SWTOR, I have not seen anyone be critical of a player because they were solo. 

 

The anti-premades are basically just uncool.

 

 

Edited by Tasaas
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32 minutes ago, Tasaas said:

My signature is just plain stupid, just like the anti-premade movement.

 

The anti-premades have done more damage to PVP than any group of players ever has. 

 

You will now see in an arena/warzone chat, "you suck premade" or "eat it premade" or "L2P premade losers"

 

In my time in SWTOR, I have not seen anyone be critical of a player because they were solo. 

 

The anti-premades are basically just uncool.

 

 

You didn’t answer the question. What’s wrong with a premade only queue? You get to have fun with your friends against other people having fun with their friends. 

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1 hour ago, AwesomeTacoCat said:

You didn’t answer the question. What’s wrong with a premade only queue? You get to have fun with your friends against other people having fun with their friends. 

The problem with dividing the pvp Q is simple math.  This game does not have the population to support a seperate loner and group Q.

 

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