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Most of players despise new changes


omaan

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Fixing that should have been one of their priorities, yet it's coming "in a future patch."

 

When I read the phrase "in a future patch", it feels a lot like an old man saying "go away kid, you bother me".

 

I think that better communication, and follow-through on statements made are needed before I will believe them when they say things like that.

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I don't despise all the new changes.

 

Just the majority of them....

 

Loss of skills, No Crowd Control Sills, Companion SUCKS, Mobs all want to kill only the player.....

Hmm actually I can't think of a single thing I do like about all the changes...

 

So yeah, I guess I do Despise All of the New Changes after all...

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Ability pruning especially which literally made game less interesting to play. People can't implement different tactics and strategies because they lost needed abilities for that, some classes lost much more abilities than others (for example, deception assassin lost nearly nothing while arsenal mercenary is forced to choose between vital abilities such as stun, reflect, hydraulic override etc). All of this makes gameplay less interesting, variable and intense since everyone is just clicking small number of abilities in same order without CC tactics and without mobility part of the game (most classes lost their mobility in 7.0.).

 

All of these was a mistake. Game became more boring and less interesting, more monotonous. It's ok to make mistakes you can always rollback some of the changes, return back interesting and needed abilities and people will only be grateful for that. No one will make a huge show over you returning back all taken abilities and changing loadout choices, people won't shout out "HAHA, finally confirmed your mistakes? We told ya". Most of Players need it, game needs it so people would be happy and could continue to subscribe.

 

We've all said this about a thousand times since ability pruning was announced. PvP works, but it's been dumbed down to the point that no amount of combat style changing makes the game interesting. The chess match between two players is largely gone. Brain power is gone. We have a lot less potential for meaningful counter attacks.

 

The irony of the situation is TTK really didn't change enough to justify the changes.

 

The talent tree could have been cool if it was full of new, meaningful augmentations to abilities. Ex: the talent that allows Raging Burst to be an AOE Raging Burst is cool. Why they didn't do that with more abilities from 1 - 80 is beyond me. I guess they're afraid of their player base having too much fun playing the game.

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What I'm talking about is the fact that that developing loadouts and combat styles in such an intricate code was so difficult that it

  • resulted in 7.0 being released with a 4 month delay
  • led to hundreds of new bugs. Some are/were game breaking (remember characters being locked on the other faction fleet?). Many are still unsolved 3 months after release
  • consumed so many resources that playable content development has been reduced to a minimum, and 7.1 is adjourned without ETA.

 

Almost all the issues we've had with the game since the release of 7.0 have been caused by too much messing around in a code that nobody fully understands. Loadouts and combat styles may not be broken (I don't know, I haven't tried them), but they have increased the mess in the code and the amount of bugs. I guess the UI tweak probably contributed its fair share of new bugs too.

 

I ended up letting my sub go and moving on from SWTOR. My account has been subbed for all but 3 months or so of the time the game's been live.

 

Lack of content is not why. The sheer number and severity of the bugs introduced by 7.0 and since is. The team working on SWTOR broke the game in making 7.0, and I don't foresee a future where it recovers.

 

I'd encourage anyone who is still playing to give other games or MMOs a try. EA definitely does not care about this one, and either BW doesn't as well or the folks assigned to SWTOR these days simply lack the capacity to adequately work with its code.

 

I can't think of any other product that charges a monthly $15 subscription fee that delivers such a poor service.

 

Edit: the lie about 7.1 prior to the expansion launching left a really bad impression on me as well. It was stated 7.1, which would include a new daily area and Operation, would arrive approximately a month after 7.0, giving players some time to get used to the new gearing system. GIven where the PTS is on testing currently, with only 3 bosses and no daily area having been made available to test, this was an inexcusable way to treat customers. Folks were using words like scam and conartists after 7.0 launched, referring to BW, and I'm not sure they're wrong.

Edited by arunav
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Just the majority of them....

 

Loss of skills, No Crowd Control Sills, Companion SUCKS, Mobs all want to kill only the player.....

Hmm actually I can't think of a single thing I do like about all the changes...

 

So yeah, I guess I do Despise All of the New Changes after all...

 

Actually, yeah, you have a point.

I hate more than I like.

So with you there.

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Just the majority of them....

 

Loss of skills, No Crowd Control Sills, Companion SUCKS, Mobs all want to kill only the player.....

Hmm actually I can't think of a single thing I do like about all the changes...

 

So yeah, I guess I do Despise All of the New Changes after all...

 

Exactly, most of people already confirmed things they disgust in 7.0. - ability loss, crowd control limitation, Numerous buggs like augments aren't working in certain types of content, companion power scaling into dust, inventory color issues. It was stated by the players so many times that devs should have already understood what they need to fix or return back from 6.x expansion. How much they planning to ignore player's call and requirements? When they finally start playing their own game to understand what it really needs? Before 7.0. People asked for more story content, new maps for pvp, new operations, changes to GSF. THEY didn't ask for companion nerf, ability pruning, new UI changes :rak_04:

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Most players are just busy playing the game. I wish disgruntled players would stop thinking they speak for everyone. 🙄

 

You are missing another possibility: many players are playing something else. I totally don't think everyone agrees with the criticisms of 7.0. Different strokes for different folks.

 

However 7.0 is a mess. Many players have left or are playing it at a massively reduced rate. The industry knows Swtor is in trouble. Most of what's left of the playerbase knows it too. EA knows it as well.

 

I totally get that you, and some others, may be pleased as punch with the new changes and totally ok with the lack of content and very happy with the state of the game. However, that's not the experience of the majority. Swtor has lost nearly 40% of its Steam players since Legacy of the Sith dropped. That's a good sign that lots of folks are not happy with the changes.

 

I wish white knights would stop burying their heads in the sand.

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I wish white knights would stop burying their heads in the sand.

 

They never do. The population can drop by another 75% and they will still blindly defend right up until Bioware announces the game is shutting down and then...then they will cry so hard for as long as they can post on the forums about how its the company screwing them over for no reason (IE: head still in the sand over why).

 

Facts dont lie

https://steamcharts.com/app/1286830

The game is hemorrhaging players. Its the only metric needed for 7.0 being a disaster and how most players do not like the changes. People can click on the lick above next week and the week after and watch the numbers drop even more. There is no sign that the exodus is going to stop because the lower playerbase will eventually start to effect even those that have TOLERATED the changes, and their ability to group, which will make their experiences worse and make them quit.

 

The downward spiral to the end of this game has started and the developers are clearly not going to address it, so this game perhaps has 1 to 1 1/2 years of life left in it before EA decides to either shut it down or remove 100% of development and let it ride itself out until it can make no more money as it is.

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They never do. The population can drop by another 75% and they will still blindly defend right up until Bioware announces the game is shutting down and then...then they will cry so hard for as long as they can post on the forums about how its the company screwing them over for no reason (IE: head still in the sand over why).

 

Facts dont lie

https://steamcharts.com/app/1286830

The game is hemorrhaging players. Its the only metric needed for 7.0 being a disaster and how most players do not like the changes. People can click on the lick above next week and the week after and watch the numbers drop even more. There is no sign that the exodus is going to stop because the lower playerbase will eventually start to effect even those that have TOLERATED the changes, and their ability to group, which will make their experiences worse and make them quit.

 

The downward spiral to the end of this game has started and the developers are clearly not going to address it, so this game perhaps has 1 to 1 1/2 years of life left in it before EA decides to either shut it down or remove 100% of development and let it ride itself out until it can make no more money as it is.

 

people have left because there is no content outside of the NM ops

 

there is a lot wrong with 7.0

missing crafting features and the new day... weekly zone witch are tied

the new rep zone also tied to above

how short the story was

 

ui changes and combat changes are not the main cause and if you think that im sorry but there is nothing more to say.

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people have left because there is no content outside of the NM ops

 

there is a lot wrong with 7.0

missing crafting features and the new day... weekly zone witch are tied

the new rep zone also tied to above

how short the story was

 

ui changes and combat changes are not the main cause and if you think that im sorry but there is nothing more to say.

 

I agree, but I don't see the difference to 6.X, there was a long content drought after Onslaught, why didn't people quit back then? There was never any content besides from NM ops and ranked, in all other gamemodes you lose your progress and with each expansion your old gear gets trashed, but that is the way it is. If you can't walk towards a goal you will stop moving and realize it's all for nothing. That happened because renown was removed, no renown is the reason people quit but they themselves don't realize that and think it's class changes.

 

Class changes were needed, all classes felt the same - ling and arsenal was literally the same spec. Now... balance changes were not very balanced, but the idea itself is great.

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They never do. The population can drop by another 75% and they will still blindly defend right up until Bioware announces the game is shutting down and then...then they will cry so hard for as long as they can post on the forums about how its the company screwing them over for no reason (IE: head still in the sand over why).

 

Facts dont lie

https://steamcharts.com/app/1286830

The game is hemorrhaging players. Its the only metric needed for 7.0 being a disaster and how most players do not like the changes. People can click on the lick above next week and the week after and watch the numbers drop even more. There is no sign that the exodus is going to stop because the lower playerbase will eventually start to effect even those that have TOLERATED the changes, and their ability to group, which will make their experiences worse and make them quit.

 

The downward spiral to the end of this game has started and the developers are clearly not going to address it, so this game perhaps has 1 to 1 1/2 years of life left in it before EA decides to either shut it down or remove 100% of development and let it ride itself out until it can make no more money as it is.

 

Another factor in this is (as reported in Kotaku) EA is looking to sell or merge. The article also mentions that EA has laid off 200 customer service staff. EA has not only lost it's exclusive deal for Star Wars but FIFA now as well.

 

Edit: Bioware has never been top priority for EA. So if EA is in trouble, you can imagine how things are looking for Bioware.

Edited by divinecynic
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I agree, but I don't see the difference to 6.X, there was a long content drought after Onslaught, why didn't people quit back then? There was never any content besides from NM ops and ranked, in all other gamemodes you lose your progress and with each expansion your old gear gets trashed, but that is the way it is. If you can't walk towards a goal you will stop moving and realize it's all for nothing. That happened because renown was removed, no renown is the reason people quit but they themselves don't realize that and think it's class changes.

 

Class changes were needed, all classes felt the same - ling and arsenal was literally the same spec. Now... balance changes were not very balanced, but the idea itself is great.

 

I agree, removing renown took away a great part of my motivation, even I didn't get a Character to level 999.

The other great demotivation comes from the gear changes with 7.0 and the removal of the amlifier.

 

There is no more hope for this game, because a new OP didn´'t bring back the motivation for playing for the mayority of players and it also is nothing to attract new players.

 

The only thing that would help (but which would never happen) where a great new story arc with an back story that last over a longer time (like the Revan / empororer story arc) and with a good marketing campaign advertising this story.

Edited by Master_Morak
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I agree, removing renown took away a great part of my motivation, even I didn't get a Character to level 999.

The other great demotivation comes from the gear changes with 7.0 and the removal of the amlifier.

 

There is no more hope for this game, because a new OP didn´'t bring back the motivation for playing for the mayority of players and it also is nothing to attract new players.

 

The only thing that would help (but which would never happen) where a great new story arc with an back story that last over a longer time (like the Revan / empororer story arc) and with a good marketing campaign advertising this story.

 

This would be a part of the matter. Some other things to consider (perhaps even equally) :

** Multiple story viewpoints. By that I mean: it's unlikely that a Sith would see or tell the story in the same fashion that a Jedi or perhaps even a smuggler would ( and visa versa). While I personally don't ever expect to see all 8 story lines ever again .. there really should be some variants (even with those character/roles being from the alliance commander).

** Gearing needs to be closer to 6.(??) (separate discussion in another thread some day).

** Restoring companion interactions. Currently they are all but dead (and now act more like glorified battle pets).

** A "Deeper" story (pretty much as Morak has mentioned) that lasts MUCH longer per "episode" (should not be referred to as an expansion). IMO what we see now is simply another "CHAPTER" in the current story line. There is NOTHING wrong with this. But call it that ... The release of Onslaught chapter 7 (for example). If that's what it is .. then that's what it is! I can live with the truth!

 

These are just a few more examples of some of what (to me) would at least help move things in the right direction.

(and again ... just my $.02 )

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I haven't quit yet. Except for a couple months here and there I've been subbed since launch. But I don't feel like I have a reason to play lately. I'm not progressing in anything, even stupid things, conquests seem more pointless than ever and PVP still has pretty much all of the same problems it did last year with a few others thrown in for good measure. Balance is marginally better but that doesn't matter in wzs when half my team is completely unskilled and half of the enemy team is a farming premade and every queue results in the same teams playing over and over.

 

I haven't logged in for the last couple weeks at least and my play time in this game has nosedived vs last year or, I suspect, any year since launch. If swtor loses everyone like me it loses a big chunk of the revenue it's needed to survive this long.

Edited by Savej
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I agree, but I don't see the difference to 6.X, there was a long content drought after Onslaught, why didn't people quit back then? There was never any content besides from NM ops and ranked, in all other gamemodes you lose your progress and with each expansion your old gear gets trashed, but that is the way it is. If you can't walk towards a goal you will stop moving and realize it's all for nothing. That happened because renown was removed, no renown is the reason people quit but they themselves don't realize that and think it's class changes.

 

Class changes were needed, all classes felt the same - ling and arsenal was literally the same spec. Now... balance changes were not very balanced, but the idea itself is great.

 

A couple of things are going on here. Obviously there are issues like the UI, but a big difference is that Onslaught had plenty of content and Legacy has jack. Swtor player will keep playing an expansion if there is stuff to do while they wait on the next expansion. Legacy of the Sith had to deliver content and didn't.

 

Another big factor is the changes to gear. See in 6.0 you could play your way to get gear. On top of that with the variety of tacticals and set bonuses, there was good reason to want multiple gear sets for each mirror class (ie merc/commando) you had. Anyone could get an optimized BiS set with the best amplifiers and augments. It just took time and credits mainly.

 

Most Swtor players are not progression raiders and never will be. So firstly, they reduced the number of gears sets you actually need or even want for the game. Having a second class and how set bonuses work means you need at most 3 sets: a tank, dps, and a healer set. This is further compounded by getting rid of useful general sets. I know I went from have like 17 endgame sets to having 2 now. All my force users are sin tanks and all my tech characters are scoundrel dps (I don't heal). Combat style doesn't equal story anymore. So I have no incentive to run more styles. Why bother? Let's add in that all my characters have stealth now.

 

Toss in the fact I can do 90% of the content in the game in green 320 gear. You know the set you get after running Legacy like once. Toss in token caps and the rest and the current gearing system gives reason to not bother playing. Story Ops gear drops are a joke and unless you are progression raiding you do not need the gear from progression raiding. Even if you want to bother with Op gear, look at the state of it. Everyone is grinding one or two bosses. It's really fast.

 

People kept complaining that 6.0 gave gear too easy. 7.0 gives you all the gear you will ever need to do most of the game after you run Legacy once. That takes what 20 minute with a stealther?

 

Legacy made gear meaningless practically. Legacy has no grind worth bothering with. At least Onslaught has a rep grind. Onslaught had 2 decent planets. Bioware set this up to push people to do Ops and didn't even release an Op.

 

Edit: One other piece of the puzzle is that Bioware worked to make big legacies with lots of alts less rewarding with the token caps. They also made Conquest less rewarding. Every way you look Bioware pruned reasons to play. It's changes encouraged people to play less. The less people play the less they care. The more likely they are to leave.

Edited by divinecynic
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Another factor in this is (as reported in Kotaku) EA is looking to sell or merge. The article also mentions that EA has laid off 200 customer service staff. EA has not only lost it's exclusive deal for Star Wars but FIFA now as well.

 

Edit: Bioware has never been top priority for EA. So if EA is in trouble, you can imagine how things are looking for Bioware.

EA didn't lose the fifa licence they just simply didn't want to pay what FIFA asked for that licence which was something like 500 mill per year for the next 4 years and EA simply said that it wasn't worth it and they would simply rename the game because thats all they were paying for

 

they have a separate agreement with the players association that allows them to still use their names and identities without having to pay FIFA

 

and to the last point DISNEY was never going to let EA have exclusive rights to their big ip as that would just lose them money and disney is about MONEY

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EA didn't lose the fifa licence they just simply didn't want to pay what FIFA asked for that licence which was something like 500 mill per year for the next 4 years and EA simply said that it wasn't worth it and they would simply rename the game because thats all they were paying for

 

they have a separate agreement with the players association that allows them to still use their names and identities without having to pay FIFA

 

and to the last point DISNEY was never going to let EA have exclusive rights to their big ip as that would just lose them money and disney is about MONEY

 

Well Disney giving other publishers a go also certainly has something to do with EA's performance. If EA could have delivered consistent hits, who knows?

 

I honestly hadn't looked in the details of the FIFA deal, but I don't think it is a secret that EA is not doing so great these days. We have known Bioware has been in trouble since Anthem. There has also been all the legal issues and bad publicity over loot boxes. EA's stock price took a nose dive last November and really hasn't fully recovered. It's current valuation is way down across many metrics. I could go on.

 

Legacy of the Sith has just been another mess in a long line of messes.

 

So the idea that the EA wants to sell or merge is just another sign the company is not in the best place. I seriously doubt Bioware is going to get the resources it needs to straighten things out. Especially with EA doing layoffs. I could be wrong. I hope I am wrong.

Edited by divinecynic
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Another factor in this is (as reported in Kotaku) EA is looking to sell or merge. The article also mentions that EA has laid off 200 customer service staff. EA has not only lost it's exclusive deal for Star Wars but FIFA now as well.

 

Edit: Bioware has never been top priority for EA. So if EA is in trouble, you can imagine how things are looking for Bioware.

 

As soon as you quoted Kotaku I stopped reading....

 

Kotaku is the worst example to use to argue anything.....

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Your post doesn't break down what might be good versus otherwise.

So don't speak for me.

 

That is because it is almost impossible to find anything that is GOOD in the crap they call Legacy of the Sith. It is buried under the CRAP so deep that anything good gets covered in CRAP. Thus making Legacy of the Sith CRAP!

 

So don't speak for me.

 

I understand.... Some People like to be Covered in Crap... Most DO NOT!

Edited by denavin
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It is sad that I been looking around for another game (doesn't have to be Star Wars) but really can't find something I enjoy yet I rarely log in anymore and the funny part is I finish school in another week and would have some extra time but lately have not enjoyed playing. I even tried to make some new characters, but winded up deleting them as it just wasn't the same.

 

I'm just not sure what I am going to do right now. I have been trying out games like Lost Ark (but just wasn't what I was looking for and I love elves p) so I will keep looking.

 

The good point is I been painting more and working on my book.

Edited by casirabit
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That is because it is almost impossible to find anything that is GOOD in the crap they call Legacy of the Sith. It is buried under the CRAP so deep that anything good gets covered in CRAP.

 

I'd say shared tagging, combat styles and remnant gear collection unlocks are nice.

The rest is garbage.

 

It is sad that I been looking around for another game (doesn't have to be Star Wars)

 

If you're looking for a story-heavy MMO you can try Secret World.

Edited by juliushorst
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If you're looking for a story-heavy MMO you can try Secret World.

 

I thought that game shut down a few years ago? Even if it's still up, given what happened to SWTOR over the years, it's not unreasonable to want to avoid games published by EA.

 

ESO is a good option for folks who prefer playing solo or grouping casually for PVE and PVP, in my opinion, those who make up a large chunk of SWTOR's population.

Edited by arunav
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