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Bio says no to macros at Guild Summit.


Badlander

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Hello all. First time poster here but this subject compelled me to try and contribute.

 

As a WoW player I use many macros and i think the misconception on here is that macros are just to make things easier, or for lazy people, however i've always used them for efficency/speed.

To the people who's argument is that macros in swtor would just promote cast sequence macros for dps I completely agree with you, however i've always seen this as a problem with class design rather than macros themselves. If a class can do adequate dps with the use of 1 or 2 macros than it's definitely a bad thing, if a class does it's optimum dps with the same then it's just plain bad design imo.

 

My macros in wow mostly consist of harm/no harm spells (casting an offensive spell if my target is enemy and a healing spell if my target is friendly), assist macros (casting a spell on the target of my target) and the usual cast tricks of the trade/dispell/other random spell @character name/party1 etc.

None of these are about being lazy or making things too easy, theyre about efficency. Maximising my use of keybinds, minimising the need for target changes and such and what I feel is playing my character to it's potential.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what Bioware classes as "non-combat" macros.

 

Anyways sorry for the slight wall of text just wanted to get a point across on macros being so much more than mindless dps spam buttons.

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I played with macros for the first time in Rift and all I can say is it's absolutely ****ed up.

I had a warrior and I had 2 attack keys. *troll face*

Anyone supporting macros is a massive game killing noob.

Edited by GongStar
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"Anyone supporting macros is a massive game killing noob"

 

So you used 1 type of macro in 1 mmo and that's your basis to summarise the whole playerbase? Right....I'm guessing you're one of those "Clicking is fine because it always worked for me" type players.

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Macros - I've seen a lot of players proclaim macros are bad lol I don't use them.

Those players may choose not to use them, they might be simple melee or ranged dps classes who have 6 buttons they use.

 

Good for them!

 

Right now I have 1-6, RTY, FG, V, Alt F1-2, Alt QWE, Mouse button 3 and 5 (since 4 is autorun)

 

And it's not enough. Due to mild arthritis I really cannot reach a modifier key excluding ALT... due to bioware being incompetant and not letting me keybind ` (beside the 1 key) thanks to their inability to realise they are working outside the us and *shock horror* not allow every key to be bound on international keyboards... I dont have enough keys.

 

In wow, playing a feral druid means I need more than just the action bar which changes with bear and cat for abilties, and without macros I simply couldnt keybind it all.

 

In tor, I'd love to be able to put my heals in a healbot style frame so my keys are free to dps with instead of having to resort to clicking some abilties or attempting to reach F5-F8.

 

Macros are not a crutch, they are for those who play more than a 2 button marauder and need access to more.

 

Macros are not there to make combat sequences for 1 button rotations... they are there for the players who need more keys because they have classes with utility play, or cooldowns, or heals AND pew pew buttons.

 

I can fully believe players are under the impression macros are a crutch.... but i'd like to see those same players manage on being forced to click every skill and keyboard turn only (which is the EXACT same balance issue bioware face).

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I played with macros for the first time in Rift and all I can say is it's absolutely ****ed up.

I had a warrior and I had 2 attack keys. *troll face*

Anyone supporting macros is a massive game killing noob.

 

So because one game you played in had a ****** macro system, all games have to have ****** macro systems?

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I played with macros for the first time in Rift and all I can say is it's absolutely ****ed up.

I had a warrior and I had 2 attack keys. *troll face*

Anyone supporting macros is a massive game killing noob.

 

Don't taint the topic by your extremely limited experience. You obviously didn't read the rest of the thread or even begin to fathom that developers can implement macros in different ways, from a complete system with delays, abilities, etc. to something more simple like /slash commands and emotes.

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Macros ARE in. Just not for everyone.

 

what I find humorous, is the macros that ARE in are much more capable than what BW would have implemented. As in, had they implemented macros, people would not have to do much more complex things with external macros :)

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While I was a heavy macro user in wow, I agree with bioware on no "combat" macro. It's good for players to actually having to keybind, and learn to play. In wow I saw it as a tool that everyone can use, and if you don't do your homework to set-up your macros, that was your loss. Rift is an example of a macro system gone wild, I haven't played in a while, but I'm pretty sure you can macro your rotation to one button, old school wow hunter style, that's bad, and honestly lazy on the player, and dev team. Good for bioware.
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I just think it's messed up they put their name etc on the razer keyboard then say, 'omg no macros!'

 

The way I see it, they want you to either get creative or to pay extra to have macros. But when you do, you get much better macros than what they would have allowed in game. And (I assume) they keep the right to ban you if you get too creative for their taste

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I want to change my target (target, focus, target of target, focus target, self, etc) based on a key modifier, in previous games this has been done through a macro. Can you explain to me how that would be done through an outside source like a programmable keyboard?

 

Or can you explain to me why that "dumbs down" the game?

 

If I understand correctly, posting external macros on BW forums will get deleted. Ask on the forums pertaining to your specific keyboard, or autohotkey's forums

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It seems part of the Dev team hates macros and does not want them in game.

 

No more like the entire GUI is written in flash (the only API language engine supports). Flash is not exactly the best API to adapt to macros. In order to correct this issue they would have to scrap the GUI API and replace it with a light weight scripting language. (or they could halfass it and try to adept one to flash, though this would be a system resource management nightmare)

 

It has nothing to do with the dev's not liking/wanting them. Its more along the lines of it being costing to much for there allowed development budget. This is also the same reason you wont see addon support anytime soon. Flash was just a terrible choice to base a entire GUI around.

 

 

Summery: its a issue caused by their engine choice

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It was pretty much said that there will be no macros anytime soon if ever at the guild summit. It seems part of the Dev team hates macros and does not want them in game.

 

But, they did say there will be some things in game that will help healers and such. What that means who knows they did not explain it very well.

Which i think this is a good thing.

If you're invoking the Guild Summit, let's be a bit more precise about what we've said:

 

A) Macros are a possibility in the future. We don't hate them.

 

B) I am opposed to macros that automate combat (shouldn't be a surprise). I'd rather take tedious things (such as sprint turning off after death) and modify the design than to rely on people to create macros to deal with these things - which creates unnecessary barriers of entry in my opinion.

 

C) We don't consider interface improvements and quality of life features (e.g. mouse over healing) to be macros (so 2 does not apply)

 

D) Macros for social behaviors, etc are definitely a possibility too.

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No more like the entire GUI is written in flash (the only API language engine supports). Flash is not exactly the best API to adapt to macros. In order to correct this issue they would have to scrap the GUI API and replace it with a light weight scripting language. (or they could halfass it and try to adept one to flash, though this would be a system resource management nightmare)

 

It has nothing to do with the dev's not liking/wanting them. Its more along the lines of it being costing to much for there allowed development budget. This is also the same reason you wont see addon support anytime soon. Flash was just a terrible choice to base a entire GUI around.

 

Summery: its a issue caused by their engine choice

 

You apparently know next to nothing about the Hero engine or its GUI editor: http://wiki.heroengine.com/wiki/GUI_Editor

 

And the UI's markup language: http://wiki.heroengine.com/wiki/GUIXML

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If you're invoking the Guild Summit, let's be a bit more precise about what we've said:

 

A) Macros are a possibility in the future. We don't hate them.

 

B) I am opposed to macros that automate combat (shouldn't be a surprise). I'd rather take tedious things (such as sprint turning off after death) and modify the design than to rely on people to create macros to deal with these things - which creates unnecessary barriers of entry in my opinion.

 

C) We don't consider interface improvements and quality of life features (e.g. mouse over healing) to be macros (so 2 does not apply)

 

D) Macros for social behaviors, etc are definitely a possibility too.

Thank you bossman! The game plays quite well on its own merits and I agree that the additon of combat-assist macros and addons would hurt the game. If any kind of non-RP "extra" were to be implemented I could maybe see an Ops-only combat log as the rest of the world wouldn't need it. Other than that, keep doing what you guys are doing! Edited by GalacticKegger
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all i want is to be able to make a "INC LEFT" "INC RIGHT" or "INC MID" macro so i dont have to type mid combat on alderaan. is that so much to ask???? >.<

 

/signed

 

'injcf lfte' ......

 

That's me trying to call for help while fighting off a marauder and a sorc last night. I hope to god people knew what I meant.

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I played with macros for the first time in Rift and all I can say is it's absolutely ****ed up.

I had a warrior and I had 2 attack keys. *troll face*

Anyone supporting macros is a massive game killing noob.

 

yep

 

SW:TOR = real gaming. much higher skill cap needed then lolRift

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Anyone supporting macros is a massive game killing noob.
Well, the dev's support them... so evidentally you're calling them "massive game killing noobs" eh?

 

Personally, I like the way that WoW does macros the best of any games that I've played. You can't group things together that are on the GCD; you can pair up 1 things that's on the GCD with any number of things that aren't (non-gcd abilities, text, emotes, etc).

 

But you can't do anything that's automation, or multiple skills that take priority based on cooldown.

 

 

If you're invoking the Guild Summit, let's be a bit more precise about what we've said:

 

A) Macros are a possibility in the future. We don't hate them.

 

B) I am opposed to macros that automate combat (shouldn't be a surprise). I'd rather take tedious things (such as sprint turning off after death) and modify the design than to rely on people to create macros to deal with these things - which creates unnecessary barriers of entry in my opinion.

 

C) We don't consider interface improvements and quality of life features (e.g. mouse over healing) to be macros (so 2 does not apply)

 

D) Macros for social behaviors, etc are definitely a possibility too.[/quote

 

Edited by ferroz
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There is a balance. I agree WoW had an awesome setup. Though even playing a Druid I didn't need more than 2 bars of hotkeys for combat. Granted they also had 3rd party Addons which really made the game so much more diverse to be able to create a personal UI.

I'd love to see macros and Addons, just not SWG level macros where I could literally AFK buff and farm.

There has to be a happy medium.

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B) I am opposed to macros that automate combat (shouldn't be a surprise). I'd rather take tedious things (such as sprint turning off after death) and modify the design than to rely on people to create macros to deal with these things - which creates unnecessary barriers of entry in my opinion.

 

Then let's add shields (force armor, force stasis, etc.) to that list. Putting a shield on members of an ops is tedious and takes a series of key presses over time. Let's change these shields to target the entire group. The force cost and induction/cooldown could be dynamically changed on the fly depending upon how many group members there are, from just the player and their companion to an entire 16-man ops. I use my own macros to shield my group before battle.

 

D) Macros for social behaviors, etc are definitely a possibility too.

 

Nice. This is what I have been really pushing for in macros: emotes, chat message, and /slash commands. Mapping something entered at the chat window into a quickbar slot. Some might play the devil's advocate and scream foul with worries of credit farmers spamming chat with them, but they already have the ability to do their with their own macro software.

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[...]

 

B) I am opposed to macros that automate combat (shouldn't be a surprise). I'd rather take tedious things (such as sprint turning off after death) and modify the design than to rely on people to create macros to deal with these things - which creates unnecessary barriers of entry in my opinion.

 

I am very curious about what falls into "automating combat" Mr. Zoeller!

 

In all honesty I think You-Know-Who got it rather right with macros, and I'd love somthing simmilar here.

 

As long as you do not let macros "do logic" (check for whether a buff is present, checking for cooldowns, etc.), it is rather hard to really automate combat. Integrating off-the-GCD abilities with regulars in a single button-press is the only one we could do, you know... "there", that I can think off as combat automating.

 

Being able to use modifier keys (alt/ctrl) and modifier statuses (combat/out of combat) to save actionbar space would be awesome tho. Fingers crossed for stuff like that.

Edited by Urkanan
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/signed

 

'injcf lfte' ......

 

That's me trying to call for help while fighting off a marauder and a sorc last night. I hope to god people knew what I meant.

 

Funny thing, I bet you they did (but no, we can't atke whether they responded accordingly as evidence one way or the other given the randomness of whether people have a clue how to pvp or not). I would've been able to figure it pretty easily at least. After all, "incoming west" is clearly "injcf wrfq".

Edited by Blotter
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If you're invoking the Guild Summit, let's be a bit more precise about what we've said:

 

A) Macros are a possibility in the future. We don't hate them.

 

B) I am opposed to macros that automate combat (shouldn't be a surprise). I'd rather take tedious things (such as sprint turning off after death) and modify the design than to rely on people to create macros to deal with these things - which creates unnecessary barriers of entry in my opinion.

 

C) We don't consider interface improvements and quality of life features (e.g. mouse over healing) to be macros (so 2 does not apply)

 

D) Macros for social behaviors, etc are definitely a possibility too.

 

Do you consider [harm] vs [help] macros things to be something that "automates combat"?

 

What about [@targettarget] macros (to, for example, make Guard faster to use)?

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