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The weird people you meet in Group Finder.


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Veteran Hammer. A 18 lvl merc didnt heal between fights, pulled something he shouldn't have and brought it to the rest of the group ,wiping us. Never said anything, and when I asked him if he knows about healing out of combat, didnt respond. Since his name was Juan I have a strong suspecion he didn't speak English.

 

Veteran Rakata. Hey does anyone remember last time they had Rakata pop up? Because I sure don't. Nice change from usual Hammer-Athiss-Cademimu-Raiders-D7 routine. Too bad tank instaquit (didn't want to deal with it?) so we 3-manned the whole thing.

 

 

Common among really bad players maybe.

 

It is a foolish strategy since the turrets DO NOT deaggro, meaning players have to die before they can leave the fp.

 

 

Yes, and? Where is the problem? Kill the boss, loot. click the thing. jump off the platform, respawn, hit exit button. What's so bad about it?

Edited by Gelious
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Common among really bad players maybe.

 

It is a foolish strategy since the turrets DO NOT deaggro, meaning players have to die before they can leave the fp.

 

It takes no time at all to kill the turrets, especially in vet fp, as long as even one of the level 75's is a half-decent dps.

 

I HATE skipping turrets because of this exact reason.

Anyone who skips them without telling the group in advance is not only a coward but a traitor.

 

Got HS today where I was the only lv75, I stood in position waiting for the others to heal up/get ready, but the lv5x ran without a word. Some poor lv3x got aggro and died at the end of the bridge. The other two were <50% HP, none of us has battle rev, so he had to stay dead through out the rest of the FP. The boss fight took longer because our dps were low even without one man down (my new toon was on a new server with only 276 gear and no appropriate tactic).

 

"Your weakness is in your blood!" Yeah, those silent turrets runner are weaklings!

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In a Red Reaper: Everything was going great. No wipes; pretty solid group. We get over the bridge towards last boss and are killing the trash before running down to boss. Tank goes flying off the bridge (knocked back by one of the trash mobs), proceeds to rage then quit group. 3 of us are at the boss very confused and a bit amused, pulled out a companion and finished up the FP. :jawa_confused:
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Veteran Hammer. A 18 lvl merc didnt heal between fights, pulled something he shouldn't have and brought it to the rest of the group ,wiping us. Never said anything, and when I asked him if he knows about healing out of combat, didnt respond. Since his name was Juan I have a strong suspecion he didn't speak English.

 

I've encountered several unresponsive players in hammer. It almost always feels like a bot. Then again, people have given others advice to minimize chat so that they don't have to deal with toxic behavior so your friend Juan may have just had his chat closed. Seriously, just assuming he doesn't speak English because his name is Juan is not a good look.

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An interesting story, but not toxic:

 

I (dps) got into a Hammer Station group with 2 tanks and another DPS**. Things started off badly because of the "1 doesn't pull, another pulls to 1st corner and third pulls to second corner" cluster-up. The other DPS immediately dropped.

So I pulled out Nico Ocar as a healer (50 influence). I was the group leader and at some point someone suggested we re-queue, but I figured a healer comp was better that some other random DPS.

Things went along just fine. The Tanks seemed to do just fine and do some actual damage, so things didn't take longer than usual.

I was surprised that Nico was able to heal through the Tunneler's laser, seemingly without the help of koltos.

Later I switched to Bowdaar as a melee healer so he'd be closer to the tanks, and we finished the FP with no major problems. (One tank died when he got caught in the boss's Sweeping Gunfire and Bowdaar was .. asleep? Out of energy?)

 

** Not entirely sure but I think one tank was 20 something and one was 35. Not even that sure what level the other dps was - he left too soon.

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I had a HS today, where my level 74 shadow dd was the highest level character, so it fell to me to 'tank'. The others were always waiting on me to start the fight - which was ok for me. But what wasn't ok was, that we had a scoundrel healer (level 50+, so they had some pretty decent heals already), who did a really poor job in healing or cleansing. So there were some wipes. We made it to the last boss and he did die in teh first try.

 

A very nice flashpoint today was Battle of Rishi with my Marauder. I haven't done that flashpoint in a while and said as much (in case, I would forget a boss mechanic) and some player explained all the bosses. We had some nice chitchat between the fights and everything was nice and fluffy.

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But what wasn't ok was, that we had a scoundrel healer (level 50+, so they had some pretty decent heals already), who did a really poor job in healing or cleansing. So there were some wipes. We made it to the last boss and he did die in teh first try.

 

.

 

Sounds like he was new or new-ish. Maybe not to the game but definitely to the class or role of healing. I had played heals for a while myself but mostly solo so someone had to point out to me in hammer master mode that I needed to cleanse. He was super cool about it and we got it in the second time no problems.

 

This guy seems like he could use a pointer, I wouldn't fault him for it.

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Hammer Station wonder trip, at least for a short while:

Lv15 merc, lv25 sniper, lv75 mara, and my lv75 sorc.

 

Me and mara loaded in first, so we stood by at the left side near the two silver at the door, waiting for the other two.

Lv25 loaded in, looked a bit confused, but went to us.

Lv15 loaded in, went to the right side ALONE, pulled trash (and the one gold patrolling the starting room).

Me and mara were like "***". We ran to the right side, it took some time so lv15 died.

 

Me (mentally): Great. A clueless idiot. This is going to be *fun*

 

Mara pulled the first group, ran back to the los spot while I said "los" and "back here".

No one but me los. I think the two low levels died because me and mara "***" for 3 second before running out of our little corner to kill the group.

 

Mara was hesitated to pull. I feel him. The second pull will lead to his certain death, if not a group wipe.

Me: We have to los. Stand here and wait *jump up and down a few times* while I pulled the next group here.

 

No one but the mara listen. They just stood in the corridor like lost children.

 

Me: We have to los to kill the next group. Come here please *jumping like mad* and wait.

Mara agreed in the chat.

 

Finally, the lv25 got the hint and listened.

However, Lv15 run out of the corner and stood there like he's protesting our cowardly.

 

Me: If you think we (your weak ***) can pull the second group off without los. DON"T.

Mara approved in the chat.

 

Lv15 pulled. He stayed there like he's invincible. Died less than 10 secs.

Me and Mara (both mentally): ***!

We almost did it but it's not enough. We wiped.

 

Me (properly pissed): I don't have time for Wipe Station!

I vote kicked lv15. He quit before the vote result's out. GOOD.

Me: Mara, do you have lv50 comp? Mine is lv30.

Mara: Yes.

Me: Good, we'll use yours, set it to heal and we'll be all good.

 

Mara summoned Shae Vizla.

Me (don't want to scare the lv25): Sniper, it's usually not that bad, don't worry.

 

Indeed we had no problem after that. Everything went smoothly. Lv25 was not causing any trouble and following pretty well (even listened when I said no aoe after I cc one of the two turrets). So glad I kicked the lv15.

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Hammer Station wonder trip, at least for a short while:

Lv15 merc, lv25 sniper, lv75 mara, and my lv75 sorc.

 

Me and mara loaded in first, so we stood by at the left side near the two silver at the door, waiting for the other two.

Lv25 loaded in, looked a bit confused, but went to us.

Lv15 loaded in, went to the right side ALONE, pulled trash (and the one gold patrolling the starting room).

Me and mara were like "***". We ran to the right side, it took some time so lv15 died.

 

Me (mentally): Great. A clueless idiot. This is going to be *fun*

 

Mara pulled the first group, ran back to the los spot while I said "los" and "back here".

No one but me los. I think the two low levels died because me and mara "***" for 3 second before running out of our little corner to kill the group.

 

Mara was hesitated to pull. I feel him. The second pull will lead to his certain death, if not a group wipe.

Me: We have to los. Stand here and wait *jump up and down a few times* while I pulled the next group here.

 

No one but the mara listen. They just stood in the corridor like lost children.

 

Me: We have to los to kill the next group. Come here please *jumping like mad* and wait.

Mara agreed in the chat.

 

Finally, the lv25 got the hint and listened.

However, Lv15 run out of the corner and stood there like he's protesting our cowardly.

 

Me: If you think we (your weak ***) can pull the second group off without los. DON"T.

Mara approved in the chat.

 

Lv15 pulled. He stayed there like he's invincible. Died less than 10 secs.

Me and Mara (both mentally): ***!

We almost did it but it's not enough. We wiped.

 

Me (properly pissed): I don't have time for Wipe Station!

I vote kicked lv15. He quit before the vote result's out. GOOD.

Me: Mara, do you have lv50 comp? Mine is lv30.

Mara: Yes.

Me: Good, we'll use yours, set it to heal and we'll be all good.

 

Mara summoned Shae Vizla.

Me (don't want to scare the lv25): Sniper, it's usually not that bad, don't worry.

 

Indeed we had no problem after that. Everything went smoothly. Lv25 was not causing any trouble and following pretty well (even listened when I said no aoe after I cc one of the two turrets). So glad I kicked the lv15.

 

It's frustrating when people don't follow simple instructions but sometimes you have to restructure how you say things to people in order to get through.

 

Like I remember back when Ossus WB's were the farm and people would yell in caps, "STACK!"

 

Simple instructions but clearly people don't understand what it means without prior experience or context (e.g casual players) so I would always take the extra 30 secs or 2 minutes to explain in plain, understandable English, "we need to group together in one spot to bring all the adds together for an aoe meltdown and for aoe heals--even ranged people need to cluster in with the main group."

 

It was extra effort to write all that but it helped. Other people in the group yelling stack 30 times weren't getting through so I realized I had to do it like that if I wanted to make people understand.

 

But to bring it back on topic, LoS is a term that most casuals probly won't understand so you have to do exactly what you did in that run. Unfortunately, that level 15 was still pretty clueless but he's still learning so we can't be too mad.

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It's frustrating when people don't follow simple instructions but sometimes you have to restructure how you say things to people in order to get through.

 

Like I remember back when Ossus WB's were the farm and people would yell in caps, "STACK!"

 

Simple instructions but clearly people don't understand what it means without prior experience or context (e.g casual players) so I would always take the extra 30 secs or 2 minutes to explain in plain, understandable English, "we need to group together in one spot to bring all the adds together for an aoe meltdown and for aoe heals--even ranged people need to cluster in with the main group."

 

It was extra effort to write all that but it helped. Other people in the group yelling stack 30 times weren't getting through so I realized I had to do it like that if I wanted to make people understand.

 

But to bring it back on topic, LoS is a term that most casuals probly won't understand so you have to do exactly what you did in that run. Unfortunately, that level 15 was still pretty clueless but he's still learning so we can't be too mad.

 

I have never played any MMO before this game. When I first played group FP, I also got HS. I said it's my first time. They told me to los. I didn't know what los is, but they were already moving. I saw everyone standing in the corner, so I waited in the corner too. I got what los is even without knowing it means "line of sight" after the initial two pulls.

 

I don't know what part of "two lv75 standing in the corner, jumping up and down, asking everyone to come here and wait" is too difficult to comprehend. Even elementary students whose first language isn't English can read that much.

 

That lv15 was not learning. He ran on his own and died the first thing he loaded in. He deliberately ran out and pulled group when both lv75 were desperately telling everyone to "stand here or we die". I have no time for people like that.

 

You know what learning is? I once took three lv10-30s through KDY. All are very new to the game. They can barely use their rotation. We got the droid boss. It took us 4 times. First time was basically them seeing what a boss fight really was, everyone was killed pretty fast despite visibly trying to do it right. Second time was them getting better at avoiding blue circles and red death ray zone while dealing damage. Third time was for the one or two with slower learning curve. We did it on the fourth try when everyone was doing their part with little slips. They thanked me for my patience and I was actually happy because I'd like to think that they'll have little trouble facing other bosses in the future.

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I have never played any MMO before this game. When I first played group FP, I also got HS. I said it's my first time. They told me to los. I didn't know what los is, but they were already moving. I saw everyone standing in the corner, so I waited in the corner too. I got what los is even without knowing it means "line of sight" after the initial two pulls.

 

I don't know what part of "two lv75 standing in the corner, jumping up and down, asking everyone to come here and wait" is too difficult to comprehend. Even elementary students whose first language isn't English can read that much.

 

That lv15 was not learning. He ran on his own and died the first thing he loaded in. He deliberately ran out and pulled group when both lv75 were desperately telling everyone to "stand here or we die". I have no time for people like that.

 

Relax. Nobody's faulting you or single-ing you out or saying you did anything wrong. All I did was use your story as an example for anybody reading who has been in the same or similar situations. We can't use common in-game or elitist terms all the time, some people need full breakdowns and context to understand 1 word instructions.

 

That's not necessarily directed specifically towards you, that's for anyone who gets frustrated with noobs. I'm sure he was learning but wasn't aware that you can't just jump into groups of mobs in vet mode flashpoints unless you know what you're doing or are a decent level to begin with. Things might have been moving a bit fast for him with the adrenaline and all, so he might have not been in the right mental space to receive your directions. Then again, some people just learn slower than others.

 

In any case, it's in the past and you can let it go now.

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Honestly this is the first MMO I've seen where people are stupid enough to repeatedly try to skip enemy groups that got them wiped already more than twice.

 

people prefer a very high chance of a total wipe to 10 seconds of killing mobs as a team. that is a new record in stupidity, and why I stopped bothering with any kind of random queue.

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This skipping tradition makes me think why people play this game. Like You are literally skipping the game You are supposed to play. Is a running simulator your desire? Because then im sure you have better options than swtor. Do you hate combat or something ? Its like life nowadays everyeone is in a rush and cannot stop for one minute to enjoy the view :/ I had a maelstrom prison a week ago we did not skip anything, killed most of the mobs, completed the bonus objective, was fun and smooth everyone was very friendly and talkative. In the end of the fp i said this non speed runner run was nice for a change, everyone agreed. Someone wasnt skipping cutscenes and noone was spamming spacebaaar omg skip skip skip. Wish every fp run was like this
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Honestly this is the first MMO I've seen where people are stupid enough to repeatedly try to skip enemy groups that got them wiped already more than twice.

 

people prefer a very high chance of a total wipe to 10 seconds of killing mobs as a team. that is a new record in stupidity, and why I stopped bothering with any kind of random queue.

 

This reminds me of Directive 7. After you get over the river, drive around a couple of groups, there's a corridor with a little astromech droid in the middle of it. It literally takes 2 hits to kill it, but for some reason people hop on the pipe next to the wall to skip it, and every - single - time someone gets stuck into the textures. They try to /stuck it, take one step and get stuck again. Then they will have cooldown before they can /stuck again, they take one step, get stuck again and so on. It might take minutes until the group can continue, instead of using two hits to kill the droid and not get stuck in the first place. Sure, you might aggro the other droid nearby, but it's also really fast to kill.

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This skipping tradition makes me think why people play this game. Like You are literally skipping the game You are supposed to play. Is a running simulator your desire? Because then im sure you have better options than swtor. Do you hate combat or something ? Its like life nowadays everyeone is in a rush and cannot stop for one minute to enjoy the view :/ I had a maelstrom prison a week ago we did not skip anything, killed most of the mobs, completed the bonus objective, was fun and smooth everyone was very friendly and talkative. In the end of the fp i said this non speed runner run was nice for a change, everyone agreed. Someone wasnt skipping cutscenes and noone was spamming spacebaaar omg skip skip skip. Wish every fp run was like this

 

I have said this before in-game and I will say it on here, if I wanted to play a stealth game, I'd stick on Assassin's Creed, Metal Gear Solid or Styx: Shards of Darkness, not SWTOR. Unfortunately, the majority of PUGs operate under one mantra; maximum rewards for minimal effort. This is why TC is so popular, why HS is constantly being spammed, so on and so forth. Or it may be that the rewards given for bonus objectives are not sufficient enough to warrant expending the extra effort it would take to get them. I have suggested in the past that rewards in GF be changed to A: allow more lucrative play options and B: reward those who, and I'm going to paraphrase this post, 'stop and enjoy the scenery while bashing dudes in the face with glowsticks'.

 

For those unaware, I have suggested more fragment rewards depending on the activity. Here's a brief rundown:

 

Daily area weeklies: 500 fragments each.

 

Flashpoints: Divide them up into three difficulty tiers and adjust fragment rewards accordingly. Black Talon/Esseles - False Emperor, tier 1 difficulty, 300 fragments per completion via GF, 1500 fragments for a weekly quest consisting of five purely random runs. Deselecting any, or just having HS ticked, nullifies the reward. Kaon Under Siege - Battle of Rishi, tier 2 difficulty, 400 fragments per completion via GF, 2000 fragments for a weekly quest consisting of 5 purely random runs. Same rules apply. Every other flashpoint goes to tier 3 difficulty, with 500 fragments per completion via GF, with 3000 fragments for a weekly quest consisting of 5 purely random runs. Thinking about it, this could go great with MM, while VM flashpoints do not need to be sorted into tiers and can reward 150 fragments per GF random completion, with 750 fragments for a weekly quest consisting of 5 random VM FP runs. Bonus objectives can yield an extra reward of 1000 fragments for VM and 2000 fragments for MM.

 

Operations: The weeklies for these can give fragments equivalent to 500 per boss in SM, 1000 for VM and 1500 for MM. To prevent LB running, the quests can track progress through the operation and dispense rewards at the end, or if a group is really struggling with, say, an especially difficult MM run, they can opt to withdraw and claim fragments for the bosses already downed. It would be a reduced reward, but it would still encourage future attempts as well as gear people up better for next time.

 

PvP activities: Tbh, I don't know how I would allocate rewards for these, as I don't do PvP, but I welcome any suggestions that players may have.

 

Obviously, with rewards this lucrative, fragment limits will have to be extended and prices will go up, but it gives people options, something that is sorely lacking nowadays.

Edited by AndrewAlberts
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This skipping tradition makes me think why people play this game.

 

This question makes me wonder if you are a new player or something.

 

The skipping tradition comes from the fact that people did all FP in this game around 1000 times and know it by heart. They didnt come here to repeat it for 1001 time just for the fun of it. They came for results, a.k.a drops and rewards and they want to do it as fast as possible. The trash mobs do not offer any rewards that are worth wasting time to kill them.

 

P.S. Maelstorm Prison you say? I dont do that very often, but there are no trash skips in this fp, AFAIK.

Edited by Gelious
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This question makes me wonder if you are a new player or something.

 

The skipping tradition comes from the fact that people did all FP in this game around 1000 times and know it by heart. They didnt come here to repeat it for 1001 time just for the fun of it. They came for results, a.k.a drops and rewards and they want to do it as fast as possible. The trash mobs do not offer any rewards that are worth wasting time to kill them.

 

P.S. Maelstorm Prison you say? I dont do that very often, but there are no trash skips in this fp, AFAIK.

 

If they made them too rewarding, half of the group content phases would become like KP farm once again.

 

Are we just beholden to the speed-urges of whatever elite player comes in wanting to max out their frag cap before bedtime? Because it feels like we are. If you're bored to death of the game just. for the love of everything. leave.

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If they made them too rewarding, half of the group content phases would become like KP farm once again.

 

Are we just beholden to the speed-urges of whatever elite player comes in wanting to max out their frag cap before bedtime? Because it feels like we are. If you're bored to death of the game just. for the love of everything. leave.

 

Either get some like-minded friends and do FP the way you like together, or accept the fact that yes, you are beholden to whatever the majority of the group decides to do. They have just as much right to play FP their way as you have to play it your way.

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Anyway, I don't want to be negative and bashing or insulting confused players here. Instead, I'd just like to hear your stories about bizarre / crazy people you meet in Group Finder (or other groups) who make you go :confused: "Huh?? What?!" when you watch them playing.

 

It's honestly very cute / amusing, except when it gets you killed by enrage timers, etc. :p

 

*cough* To get back closer to the thread topic...

 

Not too long ago I got a pop for Vet Athiss on my L75 Bodyguard Merc. Technically, it was a trinity group: Me, a L40-something DPS Merc, a L75 lightning sorc... and a L25 assassin "tank"

 

So I zone in 'knowing' that the tank isn't really capable of tanking at level 25, but whatever, it's vet mode Athiss (and this was before the arch totems disappeared). I had heals, we had DPS... Anyway. I had to completely eat my expectations. The lowbie assassin was the most competent tank in a vet fp I've seen in weeks. Never lost aggro (which makes me wonder about the sorc, actually, because there was no guarding), positioned the Beast of Vodal Kresh correctly to sweep up adds on spawn, etc.

 

So: weird in a good way? I'm not used to seeing competent tanks in Veteran flashpoints, and in retrospect I have no idea what was going on with the sorc.

 

ETA:

On the 'utter bafflement' side of the topic, I'll throw in "Hammer Station - pulling Riflor's Champions into the hall to AoE them" as my personal headscratcher. I've seen it twice in the last month in groups that were otherwise quite normal, and I still don't think it goes faster than the normal way.

Edited by Crystal_Mind
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Either get some like-minded friends and do FP the way you like together, or accept the fact that yes, you are beholden to whatever the majority of the group decides to do. They have just as much right to play FP their way as you have to play it your way.

 

When more than 3/4ths of the majorities of vet FP groups vote to wipe over and over due to their obsession with skipping, no they do not have a valid right to do it their way.

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When more than 3/4ths of the majorities of vet FP groups vote to wipe over and over due to their obsession with skipping, no they do not have a valid right to do it their way.

 

I'd like to quote Yahtzee's review of the first Watch Dogs game, "I wish more games had the balls to tell you 'you'll play it our way or you'll do it with more holes in you than your love interest's face' "

 

In all seriousness, the amount of skipping in FP groups is half the reason why I suggested my GF reward changes. The other half is to provide some means of escape from the toxicity.

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How is it that a group of all DPS can be formed in this game? On vet mode there is no way an off healer can keep up with the dmg incoming. you need a full spec healer for that.

Basically, in Veteran mode FPs, you are responsible for your own health, and it teaches you to use your own heals (if any), and defensive skills, which will also help you to not totally rely upon the healer in Master Mode.

Also, of course, there are the kolto stations.

Also note that, there is no requirement for anyone who isn't a healer to 'play' healer in a VM FP.

 

But yes, it actually can be harder for a healer to handle 3 squishy DPS in VM, than a solid tank and 2 squishes in MM. 😏

 

Note - In Group Finder, it's only Veteran Mode Flashpoints that allow 4 DPS. Master Mode is the standard trinity.

Edited by JediQuaker
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P.S. Maelstorm Prison you say? I dont do that very often, but there are no trash skips in this fp, AFAIK.

Depends what you mean by "skip".

 

The segment of Maelstrom Prison before Colonel Daksh, the first boss, doesn't have any weird "run in a strange path" skips. But there are about 100 enemies in that segment, and about 75 of them are off to the side, easily avoided.

 

There are a few other skips after Daksh. The first room with Sith and unleashed Maelstrom beasts can be skipped by going along the edge of the wall. The second big room with unleashed Maelstrom beasts has a necessary fight at the beginning (without copious amounts of stealth CC) but the rest of the room can be skipped. The final big room with unleashed beasts - the room with the bonus boss - can be skipped without any stealth CC. And then there are a few pulls right before Kilran that can be skipped with a single stealth CC.

 

I would say that the overwhelming majority of enemies in Maelstrom Prison can be skipped, even in a non-stealth group, and that skipping them dramatically reduces the amount of time spent in FP. Conveniently, there is no achievement for killing the bonus boss of MP on Master Mode, and it is only very rarely a Conquest objective, so most groups eschew the bonus and skip most mobs.

When more than 3/4ths of the majorities of vet FP groups vote to wipe over and over due to their obsession with skipping, no they do not have a valid right to do it their way.

Well, that's just incompetence. If the stated goal is to avoid wasting time, they are failing to accomplish their stated goal. Incompetent players who refuse to learn from experience (or gentle, uncritical help) are bad regardless of what their bad behavior actually is. These people are in the same category as those who stand in the wrong place for Project Sav-Rak and cause wipes over and over. The problem isn't their skipping, the problem is that they're bad at it.

 

They certainly have a right to be incompetent, but you have a similar right to put them on an ignore list and give your time to people who aren't.

Basically, in Veteran mode FPs, you are responsible for your own health, and it teaches you to use your own heals (if any), and defensive skills, which will also help you to not totally rely upon the healer in Master Mode.

Also, of course, there are the kolto stations.

Also note that, there is no requirement for anyone who isn't a healer to 'play' healer in a VM FP.

 

[...]

 

Note - In Group Finder, it's only Veteran Mode Flashpoints that allow 4 DPS. Master Mode is the standard trinity.

Incidentally, this right here is why I don't run vets.

 

As a healer, I don't want to spend most of my time tanking and dpsing because of low vet dps output and high healer threat. It's a frustrating experience. I would much prefer to just handle what mechanics I need to handle, move quickly, and constantly keep everybody topped up. It's less taxing on my patience and much less taxing on my attention; division of labor is a Good Thing. But I can't do that in vets, so I don't heal them.

 

When I dps, I don't like to have to spend much time keeping my health up. I consider it a loss of efficiency if I have to stop and top up without a healer to do it for me. Like I said earlier, division of labor is a Good Thing. But that's not the case in vets either, so I don't dps vets.

 

And tanking vets is just about the acme of pointlessness.

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