ROFL PvP is major part of the health of the game.

indeed, PvP is such a non-thing i didn't even consider it in my reply... it's like wow, there's still PvP, i thought it killed itself off...

indeed, PvP is such a non-thing i didn't even consider it in my reply... it's like wow, there's still PvP, i thought it killed itself off...

Indeed. PvP is a marketing check-box for this game.

Yeah, yesterday was definitely a sad day for any MMO gamer, even those who don't care about EQN and Wildstar specifically. It is a sign that the market is too saturated IMO, and only when more MMOs have shut down will the market work itself out. For years, WoW has had a monopoly, now there are too many MMOs so hopefully there will be some balance between the two soon.

I have lost the hope that SWTOR will be a major player, it has left the MMO sphere and focuses on single player story, so I'm hoping WoW will stay true to MMOs.

Yeah, yesterday was definitely a sad day for any MMO gamer, even those who don't care about EQN and Wildstar specifically. It is a sign that the market is too saturated IMO, and only when more MMOs have shut down will the market work itself out.

If that's true, that's a good thing.

I have lost the hope that SWTOR will be a major player, it has left the MMO sphere and focuses on single player story, so I'm hoping WoW will stay true to MMOs.

How many other games out there are "major players?" WoW? I guess that's a given? FFXIV (no idea)? EVE? EVE is a specialized niche game. LotRO? It's kinda on its last legs. ESO? TSW? AOC? Running out of "big name" MMOs that I have heard of at this point. Random Asian MMOs I have never heard of?

Today's gamer is not a gamer, you have to keep that in mind gaming is main stream and that is the issue on why people don't stick to one title.

Basically you only see hardcore fans seeing one movie over and over, the mainstream sees it once and its done for them, that is the same for gaming now.

Which is why TOR has switched to a episode model to push its story along and try to keep the mainstream hooked

The true gamer market died awhile ago.

Today's gamer is not a gamer [...] The true gamer market died awhile ago.

So tell us, what's a "true gamer?"

There will always be those players who believe that if the game doesn't constantly and heavily focus on the health of their little corner of the game, and treat their minority of the playerbase like an overwhelming majority, then the game is doomed to die, sooner rather than later.

A developer can easily ignore one niche of the game, the problem is when they ignore every niche. The thing is, there is no majority in an MMO, you have numerous sub-groups of your population, from raiders to PvPers to roleplayers to casuals and so on, and often the groups overlap with some players enjoying different parts. And that's why any dev post will be met with criticism because some players like it, others are against it.

The only way to run an MMO is to support every niche a little bit so that no group is completely angry, just a little annoyed by changes they don't like. And that means adding an operation once in a while, adding a PvP map from time to time, adding a stronghold and whatever QoL features to make sure every group is pleased.

SWTOR decided to only focus on one group, the story players, so the other groups either already quit the game or are staying around, hoping for things to improve.

I'm not saying that WoW is the only way to run an MMO but it works. SWTOR is going an unknown path, so the chances of success are unknown. Personally, I'm thinking building a loyal fanbase is more important than catering to casual players who complain and overwhelm Customer Service for every single problem they face (like the puzzle in Chapter 11), and who will quit as soon as they lose interest in the story.

So tell us, what's a "true gamer?"

 

He's a Scotsman.

I have seen hobby hipsterism destroy hobbies. If you don't attract casuals, you don't get new customers. If you don't get new customers, you die. On the other hand, you only due if you lose old customers faster than you gain new ones. So, yeah, you want to target casuals rather than veterans if you have to choose (You don't often have to choose)

A developer can easily ignore one niche of the game, the problem is when they ignore every niche. The thing is, there is no majority in an MMO, you have numerous sub-groups of your population, from raiders to PvPers to roleplayers to casuals and so on, and often the groups overlap with some players enjoying different parts. And that's why any dev post will be met with criticism because some players like it, others are against it.

 

The only way to run an MMO is to support every niche a little bit so that no group is completely angry, just a little annoyed by changes they don't like. And that means adding an operation once in a while, adding a PvP map from time to time, adding a stronghold and whatever QoL features to make sure every group is pleased.

 

SWTOR decided to only focus on one group, the story players, so the other groups either already quit the game or are staying around, hoping for things to improve.

I'm not saying that WoW is the only way to run an MMO but it works. SWTOR is going an unknown path, so the chances of success are unknown. Personally, I'm thinking building a loyal fanbase is more important than catering to casual players who complain and overwhelm Customer Service for every single problem they face (like the puzzle in Chapter 11), and who will quit as soon as they lose interest in the story.

I don't disagree with you.

It does need a broad base -- the problem is that certain players can't see beyond their little neighborhood and think that if their little neighborhood has some trouble, then the entire city or state must be in freefall and about to fall apart.

I don't disagree with you.

 

It does need a broad base -- the problem is that certain players can't see beyond their little neighborhood and think that if their little neighborhood has some trouble, then the entire city or state must be in freefall and about to fall apart.

Yeah I just ignore the players who complain too much. In the end, we have to be realistic and know that not everything is catered to us.

The players who just enjoy one part of the game and won't play anything else that's added to the game, will then go and complain that there's nothing to do. Those players cannot be pleased, not even by WoW which adds much more content than SWTOR, so I don't think there's a point trying to attract them to this game.

Regarding your suggestion, it is obviously way too late. The devs don't have the manpower or experience to follow that kind of schedule. Also, the game lost way too many veteran players during the last 12 months; no matter what the devs do now, those players will never be returning to this game.

To be honest, I am very doubtful that we'll ever get a new operation. It just doesn't make sense to create another operation, it would never be worth the RoI unless they undo all the 4.0 changes and go back to a gear progression.

So in many ways, the devs are now locked into the story cycle with one short chapter each month and not much resources to do anything else.

EA has the license for Star Wars for another 7 years and 2 months. This game will stay open the majority of that time as most of the sunk cost is already put into it.

The bigger concern is if it will be consolidated down to just a few "megaservers" (East coast, west coast in the US, English, French, German in the EU.) and put into maintenance mode. All we would see then is maintenance patches to keep the regular events going and maybe a small trickle of new cartel stuff.

EA has the license for Star Wars for another 7 years and 2 months. This game will stay open the majority of that time as most of the sunk cost is already put into it.

 

The bigger concern is if it will be consolidated down to just a few "megaservers" (East coast, west coast in the US, English, French, German in the EU.) and put into maintenance mode. All we would see then is maintenance patches to keep the regular events going and maybe a small trickle of new cartel stuff.

You know, that could be true. It might be profitable to keep it running the whole length of EA's contract even if they eventually stop releasing content.

You know, that could be true. It might be profitable to keep it running the whole length of EA's contract even if they eventually stop releasing content.

They can milk it a long time.

Take EP 7, 8, 9 setting, SWG type of game with modern Frotbite bells/whistes and some Bioware story to drive it all and you got a SW game worthy of the next 7 years of license.

And when people who want to play Jedi and Sith log in, and find that they can't?

And when people who want to play Jedi and Sith log in, and find that they can't?

You're stuck up on pre-CU. Jedi was a starting profession in the NGE. Pre-CU sucked, CU was OK, the NGE started to get good before it shut down to make room for TOR.

"SWG type of game" does not mean a carbon copy.

Take EP 7, 8, 9 setting, SWG type of game with modern Frotbite bells/whistes and some Bioware story to drive it all and you got a SW game worthy of the next 7 years of license.

I would love that. After the fall of the Empire in Ep 6, I imagine it would leave a major gap in government. The Rebels would seek to re-establish the Republic but the power vacuum may create splinter groups to form (like The First Order). We could see a "Wild West" type of Galaxy with multiple factions vying for control, independently governed systems, and others with total anarchy. Would make for a really fun MMO setting.

Take EP 7, 8, 9 setting, SWG type of game with modern Frotbite bells/whistes and some Bioware story to drive it all and you got a SW game worthy of the next 7 years of license.

Where are the trained force users in this continuity? There's exactly 4 (including the newest one, who isn't so much trained as a "natural") in the films, and the "new" EU suggests that while there

You're stuck up on pre-CU. Jedi was a starting profession in the NGE. Pre-CU sucked, CU was OK, the NGE started to get good before it shut down to make room for TOR.

 

"SWG type of game" does not mean a carbon copy.

Actually, I was thinking of the setting -- there aren't enough force users around in the time period you want to justify Jedi or Sith PCs.

Plus... episode 7 was unmitigated garbage.

Actually, I was thinking of the setting -- there aren't enough force users around in the time period you want to justify Jedi or Sith PCs.

 

Plus... episode 7 was unmitigated garbage.

Hehe - I thought I was agreeing with you too much recently

(It was a workmanlike genre film, IMO; much like the originals. Little too cute in the callback dept)

You're stuck up on pre-CU. Jedi was a starting profession in the NGE. Pre-CU sucked, CU was OK, the NGE started to get good before it shut down to make room for TOR.

 

"SWG type of game" does not mean a carbon copy.

SWG fanboys... Blame everything else for why the game shutdown than the real reason. SWG WAS HORRIBLE.

You might need to get in therapy help you with your delusions...

Actually, I was thinking of the setting -- there aren't enough force users around in the time period you want to justify Jedi or Sith PCs.

 

Plus... episode 7 was unmitigated garbage.

Wait, we're allowed to dislike Episode 7!? Everyone just accuses me of being a prequel lover!

 

I think MMOs, in general, will evolve to smaller niche properties, and even then... people will rail on this because what they want is one game that meets all their needs. Niche MMOs can focus on being really well deployed for a smaller number of MMO player interests. It also means an end to the attempt to make any given MMO all things to all people (which has been a disaster in the industry over the last decade IMO).

Why a game with SW IP cannot produce an expansion each year with:

8-10 Operations bosses with 3 difficulty tiers

1 PvP map

1 new planet with a main story arc of ~ 6 hours + dailies

and charge us $50-60 bucks for it is beyond me.

Historically, this game has not had difficult acquiring new subscriptions. It has had enormous difficulty retaining them. Doing the above would solve this problem.

happy customer/player is a paying customer, and 15$ a month is small amount of money for 80% of the countries.

wild star is dying and went f2p with good model by the way much better than swtor but the game was/is garbage, same goes for successful mmos to not very successful to half dead mmos, you need to ask "is this really fun to play?"