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Same gender relationships clarifications?


elexier

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I wonder why people keep making comments like this when no one in the thread is stating that SGRA should be prioritized over anything else.

 

There's also 0 evidence that it is considering we are getting a new operation and probably new flashpoints very soon.

 

Regardless, a lot of the things you mentioned aren't important to a lot of people (I don't care about space battles and I can't say I know anyone who does), so I'm not sure what point you are making.

 

It's rather simple really. If it's implemented at all, it's taken up development time and company spend that could have gone on something else. Going by what the OP of this thread says, it's not a 5 minute job to implement, and there is a shortage of development resource that needs to be allocated sensibly.

 

And if you think implementing SGRA instead of improved Space Battles would see a greater number of satisfied customers. I would strongly disagree.

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I wonder why people keep making comments like this when no one in the thread is stating that SGRA should be prioritized over anything else.

 

There's also 0 evidence that it is considering we are getting a new operation and probably new flashpoints very soon.

 

Regardless, a lot of the things you mentioned aren't important to a lot of people (I don't care about space battles and I can't say I know anyone who does), so I'm not sure what point you are making.

 

Just to say it, I do like space battles. I think it is a fun minigame and I consider a little more enjoyable than doing other current endgame content. I really wouldn't mind if they did a couple new high level battles.

 

That completely banal point aside, the thing I don't get is do these people think they're just starting on SGR or something? They've presumably been working on SGR for at least a year. Do they somehow think it is a better investment for BW to ditch that massive amount of work on partially developed new content? And what exactly do they think a cutscene team is going to do that would make PVP or Raids better? These guys aren't level designers, it is a whole different skill set involved in working on SGR vs anything anyone who complains about it ever wants...

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They've presumably been working on SGR for at least a year. Do they somehow think it is a better investment for BW to ditch that massive amount of work on partially developed new content? And what exactly do they think a cutscene team is going to do that would make PVP or Raids better? These guys aren't level designers, it is a whole different skill set involved in working on SGR vs anything anyone who complains about it ever wants...

 

Just because they said a year ago that it was in their future plans, doesn't mean they've actually done any development work on it. If they were working on it, there's no reason at all not to tell people that they're working on it. (In the same way that they have with other future content that we know is coming)

 

Even assuming that the cutscene development team aren't multiskilled enough to do anything else (which is a big assumption), there are cutscenes in Flashpoints and Operations, and the new planet's worth of content that we're going to be getting. There's also the fact that the cutscene team alone aren't going to be solely required to implement SGRA, it's getting every requireed companion and character voice artists in, which isn't cheap and isn't quick to do.

 

SGRA is basically a companion interaction feature, and I would be very suprised if that wasn't very low down on the "to do" list, and frankly I would be annoyed if it was higher up.

 

I pointed out in a thread recently that there is no affection gain/loss, or voiced dialogue for companions in any of the content that's been released since launch. A damning indication of how low the importance of them is.

Edited by Hessen
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I wonder why people keep making comments like this when no one in the thread is stating that SGRA should be prioritized over anything else.

 

There's also 0 evidence that it is considering we are getting a new operation and probably new flashpoints very soon.

 

.

 

It's probably because of Uluain said earlier, just a way of keep pummeling against it without violating the forum rules.

 

It's rather simple really. If it's implemented at all, it's taken up development time and company spend that could have gone on something else. Going by what the OP of this thread says, it's not a 5 minute job to implement, and there is a shortage of development resource that needs to be allocated sensibly.

 

And if you think implementing SGRA instead of improved Space Battles would see a greater number of satisfied customers. I would strongly disagree.

 

Okay, so it's not about priorities like you said. For you is about this not being in the game at all, ever. Thanks, but I knew that already.

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Okay, so it's not about priorities like you said. For you is about this not being in the game at all, ever. Thanks, but I knew that already.

 

Not really, as I've already posted in this thread that I do want SGRAs. And I do. But it shouldn't (and most likely isn't) be high on the priority list.

 

Once the game has a solid and sustainable playerbase and income, sure, absolutely look at it. But it's not a feature that's going to help achieve that.

Edited by Hessen
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It's rather simple really. If it's implemented at all, it's taken up development time and company spend that could have gone on something else. Going by what the OP of this thread says, it's not a 5 minute job to implement, and there is a shortage of development resource that needs to be allocated sensibly.

 

They do have different teams working on different content.

 

SGRA's is a story feature and it's sensible to believe that it would take away from the development of other story-line features and not the non-storyline stuff (like PVP, space missions).

 

And if you think implementing SGRA instead of improved Space Battles would see a greater number of satisfied customers. I would strongly disagree.

 

Do you have anything to back up these claims?

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Hello,

 

just dropping by to say, I would love to have same-sex relationships in TOR. Just like in Dragon Age 1 + 2.

And I would love to have them repeatable ( I mean the love scenes :p).

Remember the game Fable?? you could also have a same sex relationship. And you also could marry your guy/girl. And eventually you would come back to give her presents and also some funny time in bed. Of course you couldn't see the action, but here it very clearly what they were doing. :D

So what is the fuzz about it to make it?? I mean no one gives a damn thing if a girl makes out with a boy and otherwise. But same sex?? OH my god...

 

You know what Marilyn Monroe said?? "Every kind of sex is alright, as long as love is involved!!"

 

okay, back to topic...I don't think that it would be so hard for the producers to invent a new quest where you can court your girl/boy and start a relationship with them.

On the other hand, as others said on this topic, they producers are working hard on the f2p model, so it could take a while to get these quests.

So all we can do is sit and wait, and sometimes tell the people that we still are here and waiting for this content.

And hopefully it will come soon!! You all have my support on this matter.

 

oh yes, and I also want this option for my lvl 50 character!! so she will stay single until this option is open. I guess it wouldn't be so hard to make it open for every character who is in the game right now!!

 

here you go, dropping back to lurking modus!!

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I pointed out in a thread recently that there is no affection gain/loss, or voiced dialogue for companions in any of the content that's been released since launch. A damning indication of how low the importance of them is.

 

End-level flashpoints, Ops, and Warzones. Why would companions be part of those?

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Not really, as I've already posted in this thread that I do want SGRAs. And I do. But it shouldn't (and most likely isn't) be high on the priority list.

 

And no one is saying it should be. That has never been the gist of this discussion. However, if the production status of same-gender romantic content has changed since the last word we had, six months ago, we would like to know that.

 

We would also like to know more about what SGRs will entail such as which companions, if indeed they are those we already know, and whether the content will be accessible after one has already played through existing story with those companions.

 

If the "this year" timetable no longer applies, do they have an idea of when they hope to be including it, etc.

 

But this thread is not now and never has been saying this content should be a higher priority than bug fixes or new group content, and that is a calumny that has been thrown at it repeatedly by opponents. It is frustrating to hear it from an alleged supporter.

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Because people are posting saying that they want it soon. Just because you might have adjusted your expectations to wait for a long time for it to arrive, doesn't mean other people are. When people are saying they are unsubbing because of it, that implies wanting it implemented soon.
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I'm not going to unsub because of it, but the only thing in the game I want more than SGRAs is codex bugfixes. The sooner the better, but I'd rather wait a while and have them done properly than have them crap out some godawful Samantha Traynor "Why don't you take a shower, tee-hee, why don't I join you, tee-hee, now we are in love after never having flirted even a little bit before this and only even talking three or four times ever" garbage. U-Haul standard be damned, that's not a romance. (And it was really too bad, too, because Sam was really cute, and she had some nice character hooks, and it could have been fun to get to know her a little better the way you can with Steve Cortez.)
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I'm not going to unsub because of it, but the only thing in the game I want more than SGRAs is codex bugfixes. The sooner the better, but I'd rather wait a while and have them done properly than have them crap out some godawful Samantha Traynor "Why don't you take a shower, tee-hee, why don't I join you, tee-hee, now we are in love after never having flirted even a little bit before this and only even talking three or four times ever" garbage. U-Haul standard be damned, that's not a romance. (And it was really too bad, too, because Sam was really cute, and she had some nice character hooks, and it could have been fun to get to know her a little better the way you can with Steve Cortez.)

 

To be honest, most of the TOR current relationships are that bad.

 

"Hey I like you"

"Hey I like you too"

*kiss*

*screen fades to black*

"Lets get married"

Edited by Hessen
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Because people are posting saying that they want it soon. Just because you might have adjusted your expectations to wait for a long time for it to arrive, doesn't mean other people are. When people are saying they are unsubbing because of it, that implies wanting it implemented soon.

 

No, they are saying that they won't support a game that isn't inclusive, and I am not far from agreeing with them. That's not saying SGR needs to be in before another Warzone or Operations, it's saying a game that lacks this content isn't worth playing.

 

I might not go quite so far, but I will say that a game which stresses romantic elements as much as it does -- and I am now seeing how many opportunities my male Sorcerer gets to [Flirt], but only with the ladies, of course -- and does not include same-gender options is intensely frustrating. It tells me, as often as I see it, "We'll happily take your money, Uluain... but we'll just pretend people like you don't really exist."

 

That's pretty crappy. Whether or not the message is intentional, it is the impression given by the game as it stands. I can perfectly understand why some player are not willing to play until this is remedied. I like the game, a lot. I do. I want to be supportive, but it's becoming an equally difficult decision between that enjoyment and my personal integrity and self-respect.

 

Now, implementing this content will take time, and that is understood. But BioWare has made a commitment to delivering this content. Not "that is the sort of thing we'd like to try to get to, some day," which is what they have said of minigames like pazzak and swoop racing. They have said "this will happen" and they have even said "this will happen this year."

 

That is an attempt to acknowlege that they don't wish the game to send a message of exclusion. And right now, that promise is the only thing which allows me to justify to myself the money I give to BioWare in order to play. The issue may be irrelevant to many players. To me, it will make or break this game.

 

Some have left until it is included. Some have left because BioWare refused to communicate in regards to this issue. My own willingness to be patient is severly undermined by the way this subject is handled, being confined to a single thread on an obscure sub-forum. A thread which has run for over eight months without ever receiving any kind of Community Team reply, even the courtesy reply of "We know this is important, and we'll try to find out what we can, but we have no information."

 

We have had those replies... privately. But never here where we are asked to confine our discussion in a virtual closet. If they really wish me to believe that I, and other LGBT players, and other players who support same-gender content, are valued parts of the player community, they really, really need to do more to demonstrate that.

 

TL;DR -- people aren't leaving because this content isn't added first. People are leaving because the game as it stands is grossly heterosexist, and discussion of this content is treated in a dismissive, discriminatory manner.

Edited by Uluain
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Well, good luck with that then.

 

Currently looking for a friendly, fun and mature gaming community to be a part of.

 

Likewise.

 

I think the intent of this thread is often misunderstood and misrepresented by other people projecting their preconceived notion of what we are asking for, and why. In a way, that is welcome as it allows for clarification of what we really are after. On the other hand, having to rebut the same points again and again gets old.

 

The number one reason for this thread is to keep this content and player interest in its inclusion at the attention of the Development Team.

 

People leaving the game and consequently this thread hinders that. I was trying to explain why they have left. Not because they want this right now, but because they want to play a game that includes it (whenever that is), not the game we have.

 

Others have left over noncommunication and the way this thread has been responded to, or rather not responded to. Some word from BioWare on this content, by preference in this thread, would go a long way to assuaging that disappointment. That's all.

Edited by Uluain
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Because people are posting saying that they want it soon. Just because you might have adjusted your expectations to wait for a long time for it to arrive, doesn't mean other people are. When people are saying they are unsubbing because of it, that implies wanting it implemented soon.

 

Individuals may place SGRA first on their personal priority list to the point where they will unsub if it's not in game yet. I see nothing wrong with that.

 

That's not quite the same as telling BW that it should be numero uno on their dev priority list.

 

To be honest, most of the TOR current relationships are that bad.

 

"Hey I like you"

"Hey I like you too"

*kiss*

*screen fades to black*

"Lets get married"

 

Really?

 

I have no clue how the romances are...never done one or watched vids for them on youtube. I just assumed they were decent.

 

If so, that sucks.

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Really?

 

I have no clue how the romances are...never done one or watched vids for them on youtube. I just assumed they were decent.

 

If so, that sucks.

 

They aren't quite that bad. I would even go so far as to say a couple of them are okay. While the initial "hook up" scenes aren't always the best, the way romance arcs in general work is more like they retool how general companion interactions are to give them a quasi-romantic quality. This is a little more accurate:

 

"Hey, 'sup"

":sniff: I'm having angst about my dark and troubled past."

"Baby, I want you to know I am there for you. Just tell me what's wrong."

":sniff: ...k (tells the truly tragic story of how these two dudes used to roll them for milk money everyday in 7th grade)"

"Let's go find those guys and KICK THEIR ***!"

"Yayz! I wuv you sooooooo much!"

 

/bows

 

Thus is great romance born. :p

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Really?

 

I have no clue how the romances are...never done one or watched vids for them on youtube. I just assumed they were decent.

 

If so, that sucks.

 

That's a very distinct oversimplification, stuffystuffs, but there is indeed zero on-screen bedroom action. Which, honestly, I have no particular problem with. Hessen is downplaying the relationship developmental tension that goes on - but which is, by the nature of writing a game, truncated when compared to real life.

 

Frankly it confuses the stuffing out of me that people seem to expect in-game relationships to be as organic and fluid as relationships are in real life. It's a game. Someone's written these lines with a high level of cross-character compatibility in mind - by that I mean that up to a certain point (and after a certain point) Vette needs to relate to the PC in a manner that is compatible with a male Sith Warrior she's interested in and a female Sith Warrior she doesn't give a damn about.

 

To achieve the level of relationship fluidity people seem to expect there'd need to be at least three versions of her dialogue:

 

1) Vette relating to a Sith Warrior she doesn't like

2) Vette relating to a Sith Warrior she likes

3) Vette relating to a Sith Warrior she likes romantically

 

If you insist that the gender of the PC would undoubtedly impact on Vette's interactions with the Sith Warrior (an argument I am not convinced by) that becomes five unique versions of her dialogue:

 

1) Vette relating to a male Sith Warrior she doesn't like

2) Vette relating to a male Sith Warrior she likes

3) Vette relating to a male Sith Warrior she likes romantically

4) Vette relating to a female Sith Warrior she doesn't like

5) Vette relating to a female Sith Warrior she likes

 

...and a theoretical sixth, Vette relating to a female Sith Warrior she likes romantically, if she's SGRA enabled.

 

No matter how you look at it this is a massive increase on the work (and cost) required to produce a Vette that is gender- and romance-neutral for the majority of her dialogue, with some romance-specific dialogue in particular scenes.

 

So no, they're not as fluid and organic as you'd find in real life, or even in a single-player game such as Dragon Age Origins where they pinned down far fewer specific characters to be romance-capable (out of a far lower total number of companion NPCs). That does not mean they're 'bad'. It might mean they don't live up to some people's expectations but it doesn't mean it's bad writing. It's actually quite good writing, from what I've seen - but it is writing within certain restrictions.

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Well, having done several of the romances, I think some of them are better than others.

I thought Torian Cadera was boring and felt forced. However, I loved Kaliyo Djannis's romance. Because it was pretty far from the standard. I typically like to avoid getting my character married, lol.

 

Don't expect a whole lot out of the romances in this game though....there isn't really enough detail put into them. It doesn't stop my imagination, however.

Edited by chuixupu
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However, I loved Kaliyo Djannis's romance. Because it was pretty far from the standard. I typically like to avoid getting my character married, lol.

 

I agree...I am worried that most of these romances kinda force the whole marriage thing though (from what I've heard).

 

Again, I know pretty much nothing about them.

 

Don't expect a whole lot out of the romances in this game though....there isn't really enough detail put into them. It doesn't stop my imagination, however.

 

Well, I'm using my imagination so far and it's working out pretty well XD

 

There's nothing in game to contradict my belief that my Agent and Kaliyo are getting it on or my Jedi and Kira, I say!

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Because EA woke up one day and remembered they owned BioWare, so now we're operating under Electronic Arts SOP until they start developing the next Madden game.

 

Seriously, though, I don't think they're going to. Same-sex relationships has always been seen in M-rated games and this is a T-game. And since LucasArts has this thing with catering to the younger generations, we won't see same-sex stuff for a while, if ever. I don't know why people keep bringing it up. If it happens, it happens. If not, so what? Sure, it's make the game more fun, but so would playable Trandoshans or removing EA's pull over the game, and we're not getting those soon either.

 

I agree with the first part of your statement about EA. That wouldn't surprise me in the least. I've kinda made it a hobby to watch EA and their shady business practices. lol

 

As for the second part, The ESRB doesn't differentiate between OGRs and SGRs when determining the rating. Both KotOR and KotOR II had SGRs, though not as fleshed out as those in Jade Empire, Mass Effect, and the Dragon Age games. Juhani declares her love for the female Revan in KotOR, but with no follow-up, unfortunately. Also, Luxa flirts openly with the female Exile in KotOR II. Also with no follow-through.

 

While coincidence is with you that the M-Rated games had the full-fledged SGRs, they also had much more violence, adult situations, nudity, and profanity. That is what the ESRB looks at when rating a game.

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I agree...I am worried that most of these romances kinda force the whole marriage thing though (from what I've heard).

 

Not really....you may feel pressured but not forced. I didn't marry Nadia on my Consular...she didn't mind. I didn't marry Ensign Temple on my agent, and while she was clearly unhappy about it, she didn't protest or end the relationship. Certain other companions I've seen actually turn down your marriage proposal. I felt like Torian would have just fallen to pieces if I said no, so I don't know what really happens if I did. But I can't speak for all romances in the game yet, many I haven't seen.

 

Kaliyo is so obviously bisexual. It's not even subtle.

 

So anyway.....yes everyone here is aware that SGR might not happen, or may be on the backburner for a while, but there is nothing wrong with keeping this thread alive and continuing to do what the title says, request clarifications.

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