Arcann is a powerful threat that raided both Korriban and other core worlds without the Eternal Fleet, he's defeated the Outlander in battle, coupled with even Valkorion telling you how powerful Arcann and Vaylin are, he's more then just garbage.

Without? Without the Eternal Fleet's blockade and destroying the enemy's fleet, how would he have got the chance to step on Korriban? Even though, without his brother he would have been dead.

He was able to defeat the SI only because he/she was having a lightsaber duel with him, if you pay attention to the scene.

What do you need to get to Arcann? Resources, armies, ships, power and an opening to get to the throne. Which is defended by the Eternal Fleet. We at this point have absolutely no chance of getting to Arcann.

No, infiltration is what you needed, if you can take the Eternal Fleet head on, you don't even need to aim against the throne.

The Jedi and Sith orders both have their faults and their dogmatic/ideological blindspots. However, both have very valuable and important things to teach a force user.

 

I'd think by now with everything we've seen in the movies, animated series, and these games... that wouldn't be an item of contention. In the movies alone, we see the Jedi and the Sith come up against the limits and faults of their respective dogmas.

So true, well said.

It's still strong than his son. It's not like the Emperor's voice would be owned by Lana/Koth.

No, the voice is weaker then most of the villains we face post-50.

He didn't curbstomp the orders with his Force skills, just his fleet was too strong.

He did this before in the raids, without using the fleet. He personally went into battle and slayed hundreds of jedi and Sith. Yes, he used the fleet when he conquered the galaxy, but that doesn't discredit him as a fighter.

Would Exar Kun, Revan, Exiled, Naga Sadow, Darth Nihilus lose to him? NO, then it simply means you are not strong enough in your own way. The game did it simply because it was putting different classes into one storyline.

Exar Kun, Naga Shadow and Nihilus are as powerful as Valkorion, which again, does not make Arcann any less threatening. And I think Arcann would have a pretty good chance against Revan.

The Jedi and Sith orders both have their faults and their dogmatic/ideological blindspots. However, both have very valuable and important things to teach a force user.

 

I'd think by now with everything we've seen in the movies, animated series, and these games... that wouldn't be an item of contention. In the movies alone, we see the Jedi and the Sith come up against the limits and faults of their respective dogmas.

Yes, they are valuable. But that doesn't mean a new approach wouldn't be useful. Besides, what Marr and Satele saids isn't definate as you can still stick to your dogma and still achieve the same powerful weapon that supposedly will help.

No, the voice is weaker then most of the villains we face post-50.

How? The Voice got the Emperor's power and will with him, even at a weakened state, there is no way such a planet eater would be weaker than Arcann, someone almost got killed by a bomb/machinery.

He did this before in the raids, without using the fleet. He personally went into battle and slayed hundreds of jedi and Sith. Yes, he used the fleet when he conquered the galaxy, but that doesn't discredit him as a fighter.

He led tons of Zakuul knights with him, plus his brother, and he still almost died..

Exar Kun, Naga Shadow and Nihilus are as powerful as Valkorion, which again, does not make Arcann any less threatening. And I think Arcann would have a pretty good chance against Revan.

So why should Satele Shan/Darth Marr, the wise jedi master/Sith lord, ask you to give up the Jedi/Sith way since they knew these great figures? It's like Yoda asking Luke to give up the Jedi way to defeat the Emperor, you know the Jedi way indeed failed.

The Jedi and Sith orders both have their faults and their dogmatic/ideological blindspots. However, both have very valuable and important things to teach a force user.

 

I'd think by now with everything we've seen in the movies, animated series, and these games... that wouldn't be an item of contention. In the movies alone, we see the Jedi and the Sith come up against the limits and faults of their respective dogmas.

But their obsessiveness on power/ideal also made them powerful, along with the flaw. You can see the more extreme they got, the more powerful they become. Vitiate himself is an example.

"flawless way" makes you Mary Sue.

But their obsessiveness on power/ideal also made them powerful, along with the flaw. You can see the more extreme they got, the more powerful they become. Vitiate himself is an example.

 

"flawless way" makes you Mary Sue.

There's exactly ONE "sue" in the entirety of SWTOR, and that's Vitiate Sue himself.

Other than that, calling any of them a "sue" is just falling into the silly trap of grossly extending an already tenuous term.

How? The Voice got the Emperor's power and will with him, even at a weakened state, there is no way such a planet eater would be weaker than Arcann, someone almost got killed by a bomb/machinery.

The voice is weakened by all it's sleeper agents being killed off, ripping hi hold on all the jedi masters. Baras trapping it on Voss and Sel-Makor breifly taking it's power. We are informed this by both Tol Braga and Scourge. And he only became a planet eater after Revan fed him all the destruction on Yavin, before that he needed people to willingly take part in a ritual to take their life.

And if the voice had been bombed, their body probably wouldn't be that good either. THat's why Vitiate uses Voices instead of his actual body.

He led tons of Zakuul knights with him, plus his brother, and he still almost died..

And? That doesn't change the fact that it took armies and a BOMBING RUN to take him down, even then he just had to slap some metal on his body and then come back and slaughter more.

So why should Satele Shan/Darth Marr, the wise jedi master/Sith lord, ask you to give up the Jedi/Sith way since they knew these great figures? It's like Yoda asking Luke to give up the Jedi way to defeat the Emperor, you know the Jedi way indeed failed.

Because they're supposedly the best of their orders, yet their teachings failed to help them beat Zakuul. They're convinced that a new way is the best option, that doesn't mean they're right.

There's exactly ONE "sue" in the entirety of SWTOR, and that's Vitiate Sue himself.

 

Other than that, calling any of them a "sue" is just falling into the silly trap of grossly extending an already tenuous term.

I don't think Vitiate is a Sue, he just wasn't a real character before KotFE, more like a monster/thread, just like Nihilus.

"Perfect and flawless" or "Superior than you in all the ways" does make something/someone Sue, especially if you have never heard of it before. The Zakuul Empire, got more Sue traits than Vitiate and it was formed by him.

Seriously, Revan? Revan took an army or a super group to take down. Arcann was beaten by the PC+Koth/Lana alone.

Arcann was knocked off an edge by a surprise attack, still intact. Because the intent of the attack wasn't to kill him, it was to put obsticals in his way so that they could get the Outlander to safety as Arcann proved to much for them.

Revan was taken down by a strike team and taken in alive back in Kotor. In SOR he was taken down by a strike team after running away from an army.

The voice is weakened by all it's sleeper agents being killed off, ripping hi hold on all the jedi masters. Baras trapping it on Voss and Sel-Makor breifly taking it's power. We are informed this by both Tol Braga and Scourge. And he only became a planet eater after Revan fed him all the destruction on Yavin, before that he needed people to willingly take part in a ritual to take their life.

And Arcann was almost killed by a bomb, got owned by Koth/Lana.

And if the voice had been bombed, their body probably wouldn't be that good either. THat's why Vitiate uses Voices instead of his actual body.

Then why didn't the strike team in chapter 2 bring a bomb to easily take him down?

And? That doesn't change the fact that it took armies and a BOMBING RUN to take him down, even then he just had to slap some metal on his body and then come back and slaughter more.

What army? He was leading an army of Zakuul knights to raid Korriban. It was a war, not him soloing the army.

Watch the trailer, the Zakuul fleet was bombing Korriban and there were tons of knights with him. Without his brother and the knights' help, the injuried Arcann would have been dead there.

Because they're supposedly the best of their orders, yet their teachings failed to help them beat Zakuul. They're convinced that a new way is the best option, that doesn't mean they're right.

So was Yoda, did Yoda give up the Jedi way to fight Palpatine? The Sith Triumvirate nearly annihilated the Jedi Order as well, did the Exiled decide the abandon the Jedi way?

Arcann was knocked off an edge by a surprise attack, still intact. Because the intent of the attack wasn't to kill him, it was to put obsticals in his way so that they could get the Outlander to safety as Arcann proved to much for them.

 

Revan was taken down by a strike team and taken in alive back in Kotor. In SOR he was taken down by a strike team after running away from an army.

Then why didn't he climb up immediately to finish us all?

We are talking about Revan Reborn, that's a entirely different discussion. It took so many elite NPCs to take him down.

And Arcann was almost killed by a bomb, got owned by Koth/Lana.

He did not get owned, he got surprised because they knew they couldn't do anything else to him. Owning would be it they killed him right there, or damaged him in any way at all. And how does almost getting killed by a bombing run make him look weaker then the voice that was killed by a falling rock?

Then why didn't the strike team in chapter 2 bring a bomb to easily take him down?

Because they were idiots who wanted to take him in alive.

 

What army? He was leading an army of Zakuul knights to raid Korriban. It was a war, not him soloing the army.

 

Watch the trailer, the Zakuul fleet was bombing Korriban and there were tons of knights with him. Without his brother and the knights' help, the injuried Arcann would have been dead there.

The trailer also shows him taking out multiple Sith on his own while the knights form around him, and with regards to the bombing, where does it say that it's his ships? He's the one who gets bombed, so unless the eternal fleet is malfunctioning it's more likly that those are sith ships or a mix.

And? Yes, he needed somone to attach the replacements. Why does that discredit his power and skill?

So was Yoda, did Yoda give up the Jedi way to fight Palpatine? The Sith Triumvirate nearly annihilated the Jedi Order as well, did the Exiled decide the abandon the Jedi way?

You do know that Marr and Satele are different characters then Yoda, right? Because what Yoda believes and what they beleive are different.

Arcann was knocked off an edge by a surprise attack, still intact. Because the intent of the attack wasn't to kill him, it was to put obsticals in his way so that they could get the Outlander to safety as Arcann proved to much for them.

 

Revan was taken down by a strike team and taken in alive back in Kotor. In SOR he was taken down by a strike team after running away from an army.

No, in KOTOR Revan killed the entire Jedi strike team except Bastila if you watch the cutscenes. What took him down was turbolaser fire from the Leviathan under the command of Malak impacting the bridge of his flagship.

Revan was at the height of his power after his mask was finally returned to him by Meetra Surik, and the loss of Meetra Surik paralyzed Revan during his loosing fight with Vitiate which ultimately resulted in his capture. Revan states his weakness was his attachments, which contradicts the book where he used "love" and attachments as a source of strength.

In the flashpoint operation it took 4 Sith lords to defeat him, but he was in a weakened state, his mind fighting itself until it tore apart at the end.

In SOR it took the TOS operation, and then you, Satele, Marr, Lana, Theron, the Wookiee, and Shae Viszla to finally kill him after he had been weakened. In (presumably HM, which means it was probably bugged too) TOS you were technically fighting the epitome of Revan's darkside powers, along with HK-47.

Revan is a Mary Sue, but it's because Bioware turned him into one with the novels and the game, trying to pander to the us darn cultists that form his fanbase (yes we pretty much are more or less cultists when it comes to Revan). I didn't like it myself.

~ Eudoxia

The Mary Sue -- and how tenuous and useless a term it is.

The more specific Villain Sue, of which Vitiate-korian is a perfect example.

Then why didn't he climb up immediately to finish us all?

 

Climb on what? The air?

No, in KOTOR Revan killed the entire Jedi strike team except Bastila if you watch the cutscenes. What took him down was turbolaser fire from the Leviathan under the command of Malak impacting the bridge of his flagship.

 

Revan was at the height of his power after his mask was finally returned to him by Meetra Surik, and the loss of Meetra Surik paralyzed Revan during his loosing fight with Vitiate which ultimately resulted in his capture. Revan states his weakness was his attachments, which contradicts the book where he used "love" and attachments as a source of strength.

 

In the flashpoint operation it took 4 Sith lords to defeat him, but he was in a weakened state, his mind fighting itself until it tore apart at the end.

 

In SOR it took the TOS operation, and then you, Satele, Marr, Lana, Theron, the Wookiee, and Shae Viszla to finally kill him after he had been weakened. At this point you were technically fighting the epitome of Revan's darkside powers.

 

Revan is a Mary Sue, but it's because Bioware turned him into one with the novels and the game, trying to pander to the us darn cultists that form his fanbase (yes we pretty much are more or less cultists when it comes to Revan). I didn't like it myself.

 

~ Eudoxia

Ah, yes. I forgot about that part, you're right. But even then, Revan is not a mary sue, he's just over done.

Climb on what? The air?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBZM7BpyA8I

Even someone who got owned badly by the SI could use the Force to fly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBZM7BpyA8I

 

Even someone who got owned badly by the SI could use the Force to fly.

That was jumping, not flying.

He did not get owned, he got surprised because they knew they couldn't do anything else to him. Owning would be it they killed him right there, or damaged him in any way at all. And how does almost getting killed by a bombing run make him look weaker then the voice that was killed by a falling rock?

He was beaten, why didn't he react quick enough if he was so powerful?

Because the voice was defeated before he got killed by the rock?

 

The trailer also shows him taking out multiple Sith on his own while the knights form around him, and with regards to the bombing, where does it say that it's his ships? He's the one who gets bombed, so unless the eternal fleet is malfunctioning it's more likly that those are sith ships or a mix.

That's not impressive feats compare to the top Jedi/Sith of this game.

Just take a look, those were obviously Zakuul ships.

And? Yes, he needed somone to attach the replacements. Why does that discredit his power and skill?

Not just attach, he lost his arm there, without replacements he would get owned right there.

You do know that Marr and Satele are different characters then Yoda, right? Because what Yoda believes and what they beleive are different.

They were both faithful followers of the Jedi/Sith way, why would they give up the way they've been followed for so long just because someone like Arcann, who was no match for a lot of the great Jedi/Sith lords in the history?

Ah, yes. I forgot about that part, you're right. But even then, Revan is not a mary sue, he's just over done.

Yeah I agree. I think he should come back as your guide against Valkorion, because he has 3 centuries of experience fighting Valkorion. Nothing more.

~ Eudoxia

That was jumping, not flying.

That was flying, Brontes also showed us she could levitate with the power of the Force.

The Mary Sue -- and how tenuous and useless a term it is.

 

The more specific Villain Sue, of which Vitiate-korian is a perfect example.

Nah, he got affected by Revan, got defeated by the Hero of Tython and was only able to come back because of Revan's stupidity. He got some Sue traits, but it was less than the Zakuul Empire.