Does the current combat rotation make this experience feel like you are playing a Commando? Why or why not?

Speaking only first the first few levels (as I've got meetings in a few minutes), it doesn't feel all that different from the current Commando on the live servers.

As you’re beginning from level 1, do you feel you have enough abilities that keep gameplay interesting?

I only got to level 4, but I did check the trainer to see when abilities would be unlocked. It looks like Commandos will be limited to Hammer Shot, Explosive Round, and Charged Bolts at level 4 and will gain Supercharge at level 10. After that, the next new ability will be High Impact Bolt at level 15. One of the defining Commando abilities, Full Auto, isn't available until level 27 on the PTS. I personally think Full Auto should be available much earlier to give some variety to the abilities. Two of the 3 offensive abilities are instant-cast, Hammer Shot and Explosive Round, and one is a 1.5-second cast, Charged Bolts. Having Full Auto available before level 10 would add a channeled ability as well without overwhelming the player with abilities.

Are you able to defeat enemies at a reasonable rate?

Yes, the early game is far too easy. I was never in any danger of dying no matter how many enemies I pulled.

Do all your abilities feel like they’re working together?

There were only 2-3 of them, so yes.

Does the current combat rotation make this experience feel like you are playing a Commando? Why or why not?

• High level yes, low level no because it feels like most of the abilities have been shifted up 10-20 levels leaving a big gap between level 4 and 23 when progression actually starts with the new skill tree.
  

As you’re beginning from level 1, do you feel you have enough abilities that keep gameplay interesting?

• Gameplay revolves around pressing explosive round, hammer shot, explosive round, hammer shot, explosive round, hammer shot and that's literally it. It sounds boring and it is boring. Full auto, high impact bolt and hail of bolts all need to be given before level 10. If that happens I think it'll be a lot more fun.
  

• Secondly, group content will be impossible on any role but dps because of these changes. Commandos have one healing ability between levels 4-23 and it's Med Shot - the lowest healing energy management filler ability. This should be swapped with Medical Probe imo.
  

Are you able to defeat enemies at a reasonable rate?

• Despite having access to a companion I didn't use them in testing. I was able to complete the Nal Hutta heroic missions (was playing a bounty hunter commando) solo without too much trouble, though again, having high impact bolt, full auto and hail of bolts would have made it much more enjoyable.
  

Do all your abilities feel like they’re working together?

• No because there isn't any semblance of a rotation in the first 20 levels. You just press two buttons over and over. Max level feels more or less the same as live.
  

Personally I'd like to get far more abilities between level 1-23 to compensate for the fact that you don't progress your discipline until level 23. This means that you can't rely on key discipline abilities or passives at low levels while also not having access to most abilities.

I did try playing a Juggernaut and the experience was far far better as I had access to substantially more abilities by the time I hit level 10.

Commando just has 3 single target damage abilities and a very low powered instant heal.

Level 10 used to be a really fun level because you gained access to your first discipline ability and truly started progressing your character. Now it's meaningless and you have to wait another 13 levels to actually start playing your discipline.

• Does the current combat rotation make this experience feel like you are playing a Commando? Why or why not?
  Yes, dont feel any difference.
  
• As you’re beginning from level 1, do you feel you have enough abilities that keep gameplay interesting?
  Yes, I suppose.
  
• Are you able to defeat enemies at a reasonable rate?
  Yes, it's not challenging. Got to DK, not breaking a sweat.
  
• Do all your abilities feel like they’re working together?
  For the ones so far..yes...BUT
  

Ok, a criticism. RIFLES.

You have the abilities that only a cannon will work for, and take those out, the rifle is pointless. You are barely 75% damage/DPS that a cannon will have. May as well scrap it.

Current build still doesnt have weapons designer working still. I cant hold any weapons there. So, I cant see if it will look like holding a rifle with the loaded cannon is the actual weapon.

WHY you ask? I want to make an imperial trooper, with a rifle.

Also, my health bar..title..says Commando. Character sheet say Bounty Hunter. Which is it? Prefer to choose what it says as a title, either Bounty Hunter or Commando.

Finally. Open Inventory with "I". You cannot close it via the ESC key. There was another that did that, but cant remember.

Playing as a Traditional Trooper-Commando to level 8. I have been playing Gunnery Commando 75th for the last several months, and that character was the only time I had gone through the Trooper story. So on the PTS I am replaying the story and paying attention to story. So I am paying more attention to story and less about abilities, which would be true for a newish player. Playing with no stim or XP boost.

Level 4 was where I got my next attack, Charged Bolts, and that was ok timing wise. We level up pretty quickly and I was 4th level before I knew it, being involved in the Storyline. On Live, I have felt that I was getting abilities before I could get comfortable with the previous ones. I feel new abilities should be better than old abilities (at least at that moment) in order to encourage us to use and learn them.

As I carry out my missions, I settled into spamming Explosive rounds and then making sure I had regen to full health before moving on. Enemies at this lower level are not challenging enough if all I have to learn is to spam one ability. At level 4 I get "Charged Bolts" (Grav Round) which is bread and butter at the higher levels. At Level 4-8 Explosive Round is dealing more damage on the primary target than Charged Bolts, plus I get AOE damage. No motivation to use Charged Bolts, especially since it is channelled. At 8th level, I am still spamming Explosive Round - I was able to take out the three silver Seperatist officers before running out of energy by spamming Explosive Round. I felt like that fight should have forced me to do at least one of the following. Medpak, RechargeCell, HammerShot for Energy.

The amount of loot seemed just right, I was feeling the sense of reward and progress without feeling like they were "easy to get"/cheap.

Created a level 1 version of my most played Commando on live - an Assault Specialist - because that's what I'm used to. Felt absolutely fine. I like how I just get granted the basic skills as we levelled rather than have to visit a trainer (or use the training toy if this was live).

There's a not much to say - we only get a couple of skills and a heal, but you don't need much more than that on Ord Mantell.

Constructively: Feels like a Trooper, I enjoyed playing it. It was the lack of QoL stuff that stood out: lack of inventory space, Rocket Boosts, mount at Level 1, but it's the PTS so not a disaster (and I made an alt, boosted to 80 and accessed the free money to send to my commando to unlock inventory space, so solved one issue).

HOWEVER:

After being uncharacteristically sociable in general chat, I saw many people were taking one of the other class specs on offer for their Troopers (mostly dual wield ones). I then realised I had the chance to make a Trooper Scoundrel, something I've been wanting to do for years because STEALTH. Commando testing went out the window and hello steeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllllllth Trooper! This is brilliant. How did it take me more than 30 mins on the PTS to remember this anyway I'm in, this is excellent, not very constructive I know. P.S. Did I mention I love Trooper Scoundrel (steeeeeeeeeeaaaaaalth ).

One minor issue - the "I" command no longer opens and closes the inventory; it just opens it. That'll need a fix.

Also I got high enough to create a legacy. What will happen to created legacies when we copy over characters? Or will you be wiping existing PTS characters before then?

Early impressions after completing and leaving Ord Mantel with classic Trooper/Commando combination, so level 1-15

Does the current combat rotation make this experience feel like you are playing a Commando? Why or why not?

i mostly play my Commando on Live as healer, so missing any heal aside from Med Shot feels weird.

As you’re beginning from level 1, do you feel you have enough abilities that keep gameplay interesting?

On these early levels, no. I pretty much just spammed Explosive Round and Hammer Shot after opening with Charged Shot. Felt a lot like in ESO, where all you have are 4 abilities, and just spamming them around the clock. IMO, that is not fun.

For comparison, I spun up a Shadow (with Knight Origin), got it to same point (level 15, finished up Tython, fly to fleet) and that felt much better. I had more abilities to mess with, and it felt much more like the playstyle the class is supposed to represent.

I am all for pruning the ability list, but in case of Commando, it feels like you went a bit too much into it, and it looks like the style is getting into its "thing" only at around level 25

Are you able to defeat enemies at a reasonable rate?

Yes, enemies died sufficiently quickly in few shots (Explosive Round stronk )

Do all your abilities feel like they’re working together?

Given the lack of abilities I mentioned, it is a "well yes, but actually no" kinda situation. The abilities I used (open with Charged Shot, then spam Explosive Round and Hammer Shot) work decently together in a very basic rotation, ut I do not really feel the progress as I gain levels (again, compared to Shadow).

Does the current combat rotation make this experience feel like you are playing a Commando? Why or why not?

• High level yes, low level no because it feels like most of the abilities have been shifted up 10-20 levels leaving a big gap between level 4 and 23 when progression actually starts with the new skill tree.
  

 

As you’re beginning from level 1, do you feel you have enough abilities that keep gameplay interesting?

• Gameplay revolves around pressing explosive round, hammer shot, explosive round, hammer shot, explosive round, hammer shot and that's literally it. It sounds boring and it is boring. Full auto, high impact bolt and hail of bolts all need to be given before level 10. If that happens I think it'll be a lot more fun.
  

 

...

 

Do all your abilities feel like they’re working together?

• No because there isn't any semblance of a rotation in the first 20 levels. You just press two buttons over and over. Max level feels more or less the same as live.
  

 

Personally I'd like to get far more abilities between level 1-23 to compensate for the fact that you don't progress your discipline until level 23. This means that you can't rely on key discipline abilities or passives at low levels while also not having access to most abilities.

 

I did try playing a Juggernaut and the experience was far far better as I had access to substantially more abilities by the time I hit level 10.

Commando just has 3 single target damage abilities and a very low powered instant heal.

 

Level 10 used to be a really fun level because you gained access to your first discipline ability and truly started progressing your character. Now it's meaningless and you have to wait another 13 levels to actually start playing your discipline.

This is a general problem with the 7.0 leveling/class ability redesign. There's too many levels where the player has too few abilities to make the game engaging, particularly early on. Given a lot of folks who try out the game either continue or quit based on playing through and leaving the capital planet (I recall a developer citing this stat once), it may be prudent to allow access to a couple more "exciting" abilities earlier on in the level process.

On live currently, it's a generally smooth rate of gaining new abilities and having them sync together, starting at level 10, after gaining some baseline ones on the starter world, even if classes don't feel mostly together until much later on (level 65-75, depending on class/spec).

I'm inclined, even though it will cost 1 non-traditional Combat Style for a given story, to level new characters before 7.0 to a sufficient level, perhaps even max, and then go back and do the class story on an alternate Combat Style after the expansion drops, due to how slowly abilities are acquired on the PTS.

Also, if part of the point of giving players abilities at a slower pace is to help newer folks learn their class better, I don't see how it's helpful to make it so a Commando, for example, is spamming Explosive Round and Hammer Shot for much of the first 20 levels. The former is not part of the rotation for 2 of the 3 disciplines, and the latter is generally only used if low on ammo.

So not only is the current setup going to potentially be more likely to bore new players away from the game before leaving their capital planet, it also doesn't help learn anything about the core discipline rotations for a class like Commando.

As a separate matter, as others have noted, classes are basically locked out of playing FPs in any reasonable way at lower levels. Lowbie PVP will also be incredibly boring, not worth queuing for, without a few more important abilities. This is a shame, as both the initial FP experience and a few WZs early on were part of what drew me into SWTOR, as someone who hadn't played an MMO before, when I first tried the game. They broke up the leveling gameplay in a good way, and featured what might be enjoyable about SWTOR at higher levels later on.

In short, it seems like some of the classes are really suffering in terms of engaging gameplay during the first 20-30 levels compared to live. A game that's a decade old and known to be probably doesn't benefit from new players being introduced to it with what many might find is a tediously-limited combat experience. Please consider bringing down the level at which more abilities are gained a little.

Discipline training with mirror classes is either not working, or intuitive.

I chose commando, BH storyline. So I'm an Imperial Commando right. But even though it says I switched disciplines on the Char sheet, and say I learned things, I didn't.

My Hutt trainer toy I got in my mail, says cant learn these on my discipline.

Went to Imperial station to train a discipline, none of the trainers allow me to, as they are all the Imperial trainers.

So, either I'm not understanding something (as no new player tutorials for this in game), or doing something wrong, its not working.

Also, level 18 with only Charged shots and Explosive rounds spamming is boring.

This is a general problem with the 7.0 leveling/class ability redesign. There's too many levels where the player has too few abilities to make the game engaging, particularly early on. Given a lot of folks who try out the game either continue or quit based on playing through and leaving the capital planet (I recall a developer citing this stat once), it may be prudent to allow access to a couple more "exciting" abilities earlier on in the level process.

 

On live currently, it's a generally smooth rate of gaining new abilities and having them sync together, starting at level 10, after gaining some baseline ones on the starter world, even if classes don't feel mostly together until much later on (level 65-75, depending on class/spec).

So far, I tried Commando and Shadow on 7.0 PTS, and I think that Shadow does not suffer from this, si it seems like not all classes have this problem? Shadow felt pretty well put together and relatively exciting (stealth into a pod, backstab, AoE, rock, most of pod dead).

But Commando is pretty dull

As a separate matter, as others have noted, classes are basically locked out of playing FPs in any reasonable way at lower levels.

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't all lowbie FP the kind where you do not need roles? It definitely sucks Shadows get Taunt so late (should get it at same time as Guardian), but it is not like anyone is tanking or healing in lowbie FPs that often (in my experience)

Discipline training with mirror classes is either not working, or intuitive.

 

I chose commando, BH storyline. So I'm an Imperial Commando right. But even though it says I switched disciplines on the Char sheet, and say I learned things, I didn't.

 

My Hutt trainer toy I got in my mail, says cant learn these on my discipline.

 

Went to Imperial station to train a discipline, none of the trainers allow me to, as they are all the Imperial trainers.

 

So, either I'm not understanding something (as no new player tutorials for this in game), or doing something wrong, its not working.

 

Also, level 18 with only Charged shots and Explosive rounds spamming is boring.

As far as I can tell, all abilities outside of Speeder piloting are now acquired automatically as you level up, making trainers mostly pointless. I got the "you are the wrong discipline" error when I tried learning ability that did show up at the trainer, but was higher level (High Impact Bolt, a L15 ability, while I was L12).

And yes, the tutorials (accessible from Esc menu or from the big question mark on your screen if you are new) need reworking to explain the new systems a bit.

And definitely, Commando just feels boring at lower levels.

This is an update to a previous post. Playing as a Traditional Trooper-Commando from level 9 to level 11. Playing with no stim or XP boost.

I am still OK with not getting abilities yet (Level 10 I did get SuperCharge. ). With our 1st level abilities, what we have works ok and I feel like a Commando.

I got to the Seperatist Stronghold at 9th level and the difficulty was just right for a newish player. I now have to start using Charged Bolts when a Silver is in the Mob due to energy concerns- as opposed to spamming Explosive Round previously.

The amount of loot seemed just right, I was feeling the sense of reward and progress without feeling like they were "easy to get"/cheap.

Overall I feel everything is working well once I got to the Separatist Stronghold at 9th level.

On a related note: When I am at a Trainer and "Show All" and "Sort by Level", The abilities do not sort correctly.

With PTS now live, you can help test the Combat Style for the Commando.

 

Please answer the following questions:

 

• Does the current combat rotation make this experience feel like you are playing a Commando? Why or why not?
  
• As you’re beginning from level 1, do you feel you have enough abilities that keep gameplay interesting?
  
• Are you able to defeat enemies at a reasonable rate?
  
• Do all your abilities feel like they’re working together?
  

 

Please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it. Feel free to answer in as much detail as possible to help us understand your thought process and line of thinking.

 

Thank you!

I've been main commando healer for quite some time, doing all end-game content. As a summary before my actual review, I will say what you did to commando is complete injustice. Let's see why.

[*]Does the current combat rotation make this experience feel like you are playing a Commando? Why or why not?

Not at all. And I am not saying because of lack of defensives, but I will get to that as well.

1. First major flaw is that you removed Reserve Powercell from the class, which is crucial for ammo management as a healer. Instead, I end up without ammo quite fast in even MM Fps, which shouldn't happen. Again, I play nim raids and pvp with this class on live, so I am pretty sure I know what I am talking about.

2. Recharge Cells doesn't work properly even if you select Cell Capacitor utility. It doesn't give extra 15 cells and gives back only about 1/4 of total cells you can have, which is not enough in the endgame content unless you reduce cooldown drastically.

3. Choice between Echoing Deterrence, Hold the Line and Cryo Grenade is one of the stupidest things someone could've thought of. For PvE, it is not a big deal. But in pvp every class needs to have a stun, a way to avoid being stunned constantly (hold the line), and a way to survive if being globaled by enemies. Commando healers are usually focused on quite a lot in pvp, so they basically need all 3 of these to survive long enough to be useful.

4. These changes look like they are focused more on completely nerfing the class so no one would play it instead of making it par in par to other healer classes.

5. Diversion (aka threat drop) is now a choice, which is very bad for healers, since one of the choices is double instant use of abilities. There is no healer who would pick threat drop over that. And threat drop is very much needed as a healer. I did 2 opses and several FPs, and basically had to heal myself all the time because I couldn't lose threat when tank's aoe taunt was out of cooldown. This will be a very large issue in fights like Thrasher, where it is basically a must to use threat drop once you are pushed up the arena, if tank is not there to aoe taunt, or if the aoe taunt is on cd. So, one of the possible solutions is to either give us back diversion as non-pickable, but mandatory skill, or rework how threat works in the game, allowing tanks to instantly get all the threat, like in Final Fantasy 14.

6. As dps commando, things weren't that bad, changes kind of make sense for the most part. Cell management has never been an issue as dps. But, for healer spec, these changes are very, very bad. I really hope you will reconsider some choices, and fix the broken abilities/utilities, like you did with sorc healers.

[*]As you’re beginning from level 1, do you feel you have enough abilities that keep gameplay interesting?

As dps, gameplay feels ok from low to high level. However, as a healer spec, it is not enjoyable and very lackluster.

[*]Are you able to defeat enemies at a reasonable rate?

Yes, dps spec wasn't an issue.

[*]Do all your abilities feel like they’re working together?

No, lack of Reserve Powercell, broken Cell Capacitor utility, and lack of Hold the Line makes the class very slow and not interesting, compared to what we have right now on the Live server.

I've played the first 20 levels using the commando combat style now, and I have to say this initial leveling experience not only feels unsatisfying - it instills bad habits into the player by teaching them to prioritize a useless ability over abilities that later become crucial.

From the beginning, you are given hammer shots (basic attack) and explosive round. Shortly after, you gain access to charged bolts. Here's the problem: charged bolts is inferior to explosive round in every single way. It does less damage than explosive round, has to be casted while standing in place, suffers from pushback, and does no aoe splash damage. Thus, the player immediately concludes that charged bolts is useless and explosive round is a fantastic ability. In reality though, charged bolts (and its replacement, grav round) is an essential part of both commando dps rotations at endgame, while explosive round is basically useless (even with assault spec passives, it is almost always better to use something that generates supercharge stacks).

To make matters even worse, the player is not granted any additional offensive abilities until level 15 when you get high impact bolt. But that has a 15 second cooldown so you're still left spamming explosive round in between for the next several levels. So basically, all I was doing through Nar Shaddaa was spamming explosive round, which is frustrating both from the perspective of a player wanting to use a greater variety of cool abilities and from the perspective of an experienced commando player who knows this ability really has very little reason to justify its own existence once you reach endgame.

On live, I believe the player is granted a signature spec ability when they reach level 10 (e.g. grav round for gunnery). Here though, I don't get anything unique to the spec until I hit level 23. Swtor has never done a great job of teaching rotation through level up, but this not only doesn't teach, it doesn't give a low level player any idea at all of what their spec is like. If I were a brand new swtor player and I picked commando, I would probably quit within the first 20 levels (or at least play another class) because spamming one ability constantly is not fun at all and all of the "fun factor" abilities are not granted until after investing a significant amount of time progressing though story/levels.

Given the design philosophy for 7.0 is ability pruning to make it easier for players to learn rotations, I am utterly baffled that explosive round not only still exists but that the player is beaten over the head with a hammer for the first 20 levels that they should be using this ability which plays zero role in either dps spec rotation.