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Maintenance: February 13th, 2019


EricMusco

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So trying to force people to play parts of the game they don't enjoy (here some group activities such as PvP and Ops) to get decos or outfits, that basically have nothing to do with group content, locking these items out of the parts of the game they enjoy is perfectly fine.

 

But these same people barely asking to get another way to get the decos in an activity they actually like is not OK ?

 

They don't want to takle away from you, they want the ability to get the same thing via another way as well.

 

I honnestly can understand their frustration. I'd love to have the Resourceful Renegade set, but it's seemingly only available as a PvP reward, and i absolutely hate PvP.

Why should i force myself through something I hate for 1 outfit, and why should I force other people to deal with my lack of skills and interest in PvP just for that outfit ? That will be unpleasant for everyone...

It's a carrot, not a mandate. You don't have to do anything in game except PvE. The other activities attract players to them by offering unique items by doing that activity only. There's nothing odd or wrong about this. Exclusive gear/decos are the perfect way to entice players to try something without forcing anyone to actually do it. If you really want something, you'll do what you need to do to get it (look at all the PvPers on Ossus running PvE for gear).

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lets assume we both want a ferrari

one will work for it

the other one wants it for free.

we could discuss that the first person might not want it if it was free.

See what I did there?

 

Games have always been like this, content is available via playing the game (whatever the game implies)

wanting the same things that other players need to work for without having to do anything, because you claim that your activities define you differently from other player... This is NOT TRUE.... everyone (or most) engages in a variety of game activities.

Nor does being a 'special' player give you the right to more rights than other players..

I've met and play with several disabed players who have NO requests of this kind nor do they feel so entitled to moan about not having their way.... I am utterly in disbelief by how insistent this tantrum has become...

 

Demagogy and sophism's of any sort wont change the above, discussing otherwise just proves the point further.

 

this thread should have ended with Lhancelot (wise) comment, anything else just proves there is an attempt by a minority of players to 'exploit' their issues up the ladder...

It's not asking for free it's asking to get that stuff from playing something else, not just that stuff magically popping in our inventory... :rolleyes:

 

If the outfit I want (and that outfit doesn't give anything special for PvP, it's just the exact same kind of outfit you can get on the CM) was available let's say as solo FP reward and as a PvP reward at the same time, i'd play solo FP to get that (even if i had to play 100 or 1000 FP for that), but not the PvP part. Because PvP is for me the most boring and obnoxious thing that game has to offer, the second being ops...

It it was available on the CM, i'd pay CC to get that (and that would not be free either).

 

What bother me the most here is that there was a lot of new outfits alonside that one I want, and the only one i wanted had to be the only one locked behind PvP, because it would not be funny otherwise.... :mad:

 

Why not offer as PvP rewards stuff that would actually be usefull to PvPers and not just cosmetic outfits ?

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lets assume we both want a ferrari

one will work for it

the other one wants it for free.

we could discuss that the first person might not want it if it was free.

See what I did there?

 

Worst analogy ever. A proper one would go like this:

 

We both want a Ferrari.

The manufacturer insists that we eat brownies made with dog poo in order to get it.

Some people are willing to eat dog poo.

Other people say, "Can't we just pay money that we earned from our regular jobs?"

The people willing to eat the dog poo accuse the others of wanting something for nothing..

 

If you want to do end-game content, that's great. You should get your sweet gear quickly. If other people want to do solo PvE content, that's great. They should be able to buy the same gear, but probably a lot slower.

Edited by MorseGod
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Worst analogy ever. A proper one would go like this:

 

We both want a Ferrari.

The manufacturer insists that we eat brownies made with dog poo in order to get it.

Some people are willing to eat dog poo.

Other people say, "Can't we just pay money that we earned from our regular jobs?"

The people willing to eat the dog poo complain because the rest of us won't also eat dog poo.

 

If you want to do end-game content, that's great. You should get your sweet gear quickly. If other people want to do solo PvE content, that's great. They should be able to buy the same gear, but probably a lot slower.

 

1 you seem to forget the notion of quality first of all. some things are prettier than others. those things will be more sought after. but is seems redundant to unravel such a simple principle of economy (scarcity) as we've even 'invented poo brownies' to further our points...

 

2 What has been described above as boring content is considered by most gamers in terms of 'hardest' or 'easiest'

Having objects that are available only by beating the game at its top is what gaming has been about for a long time.

 

3 This HAS NEVER BEEN ONLY FOR GEAR, some of the rarest and sought after mounts and cosmetics in WoW were available via Raids.

 

4 What u consider dog poo (pvp and ops) have been considered my mmo communities since 2001 as the fun content available. This has been voiced many times, over many games, by many people. Not arguing you have to like it, just pointing out how what you want, completely works against what the average gamers wants from the game. Cool items for no effort at all, and no items to show for the effort....

Edited by SushaBrancaleone
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1 you seem to forget the notion of quality first of all. some thing are prettier than others. those things will be more sought after. but is seems redundant to unravel such a simple principle of economy (scarcity) as we've even 'invented poo brownies' to further our points...

 

2 What has been described above as boring content is considered by most gamers in terms of 'hardest' or 'easiest'

Having objects that are available only by beating the game at its top is what gaming has been about for a long time.

 

3 This HAS NEVER BEEN ONLY FOR GEAR, some of the rarest and sought after mounts and cosmetics in WoW were available via Raids.

 

Quality is irrelevant. The point is that I can buy ANY commodity with money. The only variable is how efficiently I earn the money required to buy a particular item.

 

From a developer perspective, having people playing my game would be the only objective, whether they are constantly chasing the moving end-game goalposts or repetitively grinding other content. As long as they are paying and playing, there's no reason to prohibit them from eventually being able to purchase in-game items to further their own goals.

 

NOTHING in the real world prevents me from buying a Ferrari except whether I have enough cash on hand to do it. No one cares where the cash comes from. If I go to buy a Ferrari, they don't refuse to sell it to me because I made my money in a long, tedious way rather than by doing some activity that they arbitrarily demand.

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Quality is irrelevant. The point is that I can buy ANY commodity with money. The only variable is how efficiently I earn the money required to buy a particular item.

 

From a developer perspective, having people playing my game would be the only objective, whether they are constantly chasing the moving end-game goalposts or repetitively grinding other content. As long as they are paying and playing, there's no reason to prohibit them from eventually being able to purchase in-game items to further their own goals.

 

NOTHING in the real world prevents me from buying a Ferrari except whether I have enough cash on hand to do it. No one cares where the cash comes from. If I go to buy a Ferrari, they don't refuse to sell it to me because I made my money in a long, tedious way rather than by doing some activity that they arbitrarily demand.

 

gaming isnt about cash.. ty for proving my point.

u have to play the game (decently) to get the coolest stuff.. always been always will be

Edited by SushaBrancaleone
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...snip...

 

3 This HAS NEVER BEEN ONLY FOR GEAR, some of the rarest and sought after mounts and cosmetics in WoW were available via Raids.

 

There it came. I knew you were lost! Wow is that way :wea_03:

 

Btw original poster you attacked was not asking gear, just some attention to thread asking to get new VENDOR decos with different currencies. They are not ferrari, they are the peanuts you buy to eat on your driving trip. Now you are expected pay for those peanuts same price than for the ferrari. ;)

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There it came. I knew you were lost! Wow is that way :wea_03:

 

Btw original poster you attacked was not asking gear, just some attention to thread asking to get new VENDOR decos with different currencies. They are not ferrari, they are the peanuts you buy to eat on your driving trip. Now you are expected pay for those peanuts same price than for the ferrari. ;)

 

havent logged in wow since 2006 but sure changing the argument towards the poster instead of adressing the issue is called shaming

 

end game content (gear or collectables/cosmetics) are not the peanuts of mmos. all the opposite

 

you should also read the link the poster added to his first comment. Its not about gear its about decorations I'm afraid you've skipped a large part of the convo...

Edited by SushaBrancaleone
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gaming isnt about cash.. ty for proving my point.

u have o play the game (decently) to get the coolest stuff.. always been always will be

 

Way to skip over the point that people who are playing differently than you are still playing the game. There's precisely zero reason to put anything other than trophies and titles behind specific content. Stuff™ should be available to all who are willing to pay their subscription fee and play. Otherwise, there's not much point to keeping content in the game other than what the devs are currently hyping.

Edited by MorseGod
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Way to skip over the point that people who are playing differently than you are still playing the game. There's precisely zero reason to put anything other than trophies and titles behind specific content. Stuff™ should be available to all who are willing to pay their subscription fee and play. Otherwise, there's not much point to keeping content in the game other than what the devs are currently hyping.

 

been playing a lot of mobile games lately have we?

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I beg to differ on every word.

but before that, I find it dishonest that you claim to SPEAK for an entire community.

I also find it dishonest to want something everyone else needs to farm based on the claim of beeing a 'special minority'? MMO's have had top tier 'content' achievable via end content since .. the 20th century...

But the game has to change so that a minority can do their thing without having to play the game?

I also have a feeling that RPing here means... doing FP's in BDSM costumes??? ...

 

You jumped down anyone that has a different opinion yet you can attack a roleplayer by stating what you did. That does disservice to a lot of roleplayers. Just because you don't roleplay doesn't mean there are not those of us that like to roleplay and I find it very insulting you made that comment about roleplaying like you did.

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havent logged in wow since 2006 but sure changing the argument towards the poster instead of adressing the issue is called shaming

 

end game content (gear or collectables/cosmetics) are not the peanuts of mmos. all the opposite

 

There is no shame in wow, i am sorry if i made you feel bad. My comment was ment as a friendly remark of certain kind of posting/attitude towards players being more common on that side of the gaming fence. I am sorry if it came out bad way to you.

 

After the starts (failed) joke i said other things too. You should just read that part.

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LOL because what they ask affects me and others indirectly...

as in: .. several people want decos to be available from end content, and would be upset if there weren't any...

hence i will avail to my right to address a concern towards a product I buy if somebody else wants the product to become something I don't want. Saying otherwise would mean that... some customers are more equal than others?

 

oh dear. Is there an argument forming in the bread line?

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You jumped down anyone that has a different opinion yet you can attack a roleplayer by stating what you did. That does disservice to a lot of roleplayers. Just because you don't roleplay doesn't mean there are not those of us that like to roleplay and I find it very insulting you made that comment about roleplaying like you did.

 

We all roleplay, just cos someone decides to 'claim the suffix' doesn't give them a right to have the same things everyone else has to work for differently. The poster wanted the patch to adress his issue (above others)

It is disrespectul to claim to be a minority to claim benefits.

As I've mentioned, I play with several players with disabilities of different kinds and they request no special treatment....

nor would they dare escalate with exploits their issue to a thread where its not even the issue at hand (as the issue at hand appears to be

Thanks for the very quick fix. :)

 

If we could bring your attention to another thread, some of us are puzzled by the new Ossus decorations costing rare materials from high-level group play, when we all have tons of Ossus currency going to waste. I am wondering if this was intended and/or fully thought through, and if some change might be made to it. Thanks again.

Edited by SushaBrancaleone
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this thread should have ended with Lhancelot (wise) comment, anything else just proves there is an attempt by a minority of players to 'exploit' their issues up the ladder...

 

I don't call highlighting a major bug introduced in 5.10 that cripples advanced solo play "exploiting". I have actually (sorry, Lhance, not sure if you're being tongue in cheek) discussed my pet peeve in the bug forum.

 

Regardless, I don't call others highlighting their respective issues "exploiting" either.

 

You can cast yourself in the role of net nanny all you like. If and when you work for Bioware, I'll care about your views on how this thread should be moderated and react accordingly.

 

Dasty

 

P.S. Did I mention that I hate the Companion 30m / LoS bug crippling advanced solo play?

Edited by Jdast
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There is no shame in wow, i am sorry if i made you feel bad. My comment was ment as a friendly remark of certain kind of posting/attitude towards players being more common on that side of the gaming fence. I am sorry if it came out bad way to you.

 

After the starts (failed) joke i said other things too. You should just read that part.

 

sorry if i misundestood. no hard feelings this is not about us but the issues discussed and its towards that that I am focusing my comments.

Btw original poster you attacked

 

I attacked nobody first of all, pls refrain from claiming otherwise.. I debated my pov and my interest to which I have a right like everyone here.

As to your comments, I am aware it is not gear 'they' wanted but decorations.

thats why I mentioned 'ultra rare cosmetics' from WoW, like the pheonix mount: Ashes of Al'ar, obtainable only via raid (OPS) which is just an example OF MANY mounts obtainable only via raid bosses or the pletora of cosmetics items in other mmos that must be farmed from mobs or bosses with nonsensical drop rates "

Emerald Whelp: 64.246% chance to have seen it drop by now with a 0.1% chance to drop per whelp in Feralas."

 

 

No-one is saying not to provide decos available via grinds, the posters request implies that there be NO decos/cosmetics available only via end game content...

Eric Musco I cannot stress enough that locking anything decoration or stronghold related behind Ops or PVP is a mistake (with the exception of the trophy items for each Op).

]

 

The reason one feels compelled to address that post (other than it wanting to add reverentiality to itself by linking to a thread answered by 2 people and thus appearing to be imposing an agenda) is that it directly affects other players 'game' (and that of a majority to the advantage of a minority).

Eric Musco -- Please convey to the team that roleplayers and decorators are sick and tired of being forced into PVP ...

...Lest you think it's just me who is deeply concerned by this change:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=960609

Thanks for the very quick fix. :)

 

If we could bring your attention to another thread, some of us are puzzled by the new Ossus decorations costing rare materials from high-level group play, .

 

Hence as I want the exact opposite, and feel my enjoyment of the game would diminish if there weren't rare cosmetics available only by 'beating the game' (as a sign of effort or whatevs floats your boat)

They don't want to takle away from you, they want the ability to get the same thing via another way as well.

I don't want that issue. (which has been forcefully escalated to an inappropriate venue to supersede at the disadvantage of other more 'popular' requests :

If we could bring your attention to another thread... .
), to be perceived as not having its cons. thus i will voice my disapproval of it here (but not of those who advocate it - yes there is a difference), just as those who advocate it feel free to express so.

I find that the specific debate however, would be more sincere in its appropriate (starting) thread, where it will receive the attention it deserves from the community.

 

To further the above is the use of 'minorities'

Just because you don't roleplay doesn't mean there are not those of us that like to roleplay
.. it seems only 'they' can be rpers (with their approval)... who is to say I don't role play too (btw: mmoRPG...:eek:)

and claim that different play stiles are hindered by not doing what is requested

It's a carrot, not a mandate. You don't have to do anything in game except PvE. The other activities attract players to them by offering unique items by doing that activity only. There's nothing odd or wrong about this. Exclusive gear/decos are the perfect way to entice players to try something without forcing anyone to actually do it. If you really want something, you'll do what you need to do to get it (look at all the PvPers on Ossus running PvE for gear).

which suggests that a small part of the community wants to lobby its way to the top to have its way, as a consequence I feel its is responsible and dutiful to voice against such dishonest advocating of ones agenda's particularly as it happens via the denigration of the 'norm' (just read a few comments above: essentially; 'PVP and OPs are boring' or the comparisons to poo brownies with pvp:

A proper one would go like this:

 

We both want a Ferrari.

The manufacturer insists that we eat brownies made with dog poo in order to get it.

Some people are willing to eat dog poo.

Other people say, "Can't we just pay money that we earned from our regular jobs?"

The people willing to eat the dog poo accuse the others of wanting something for nothing..

.

Stuff™ should be available to all who are willing to pay their subscription fee and play.
)

To clarify the above: a constructive debate would collect suggestions and proposals for specific rp grinds/activities -> related rewards and NOT request something be removed from another portion of the community.

Edited by SushaBrancaleone
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sorry if i misundestood. no hard feelings this is not about us but the issues discussed and its towards that that I am focusing my comments.

As to you further comments I answered above, I am aware it is not gear 'they' wanted but decorations.

thats why I mentioned 'ultra rare cosmetics' from WoW, like the pheonix mount, obtainable only via raid (OPS)

No-one is saying not to provide decos available via grinds, the posters request implies that there be NO decos/cosmetics available only via end game content... that is just silly.. to be kind.

 

The reason one feels compelled to adress that post (other than it wanting to add reverentiality to itself by linking to a thread answered by 2 people and thus appearing to be imposing an agenda) is that it directly affects other players 'game' (and that of a majority to the advantage of a minority).

Hence as I want the exact opposite, and feel my enjoyment of the game would diminish if there weren't rare cosmetics available only by 'beating the game' (as a sign of effort or whatevs floats your boat) I don't want that issue (which has been forcedly escalated to an innapropriate venue to the disadvantage of other more 'popular' requests) to be perceived as not having its cons. thus i will voice my disaproval of it here just as those who advocate it feel free to express so.

I find that the specific debate however would be more sincere in its appropriate (starting) thread where it will recieve the attention it deserves from the community.

 

To further the above is the use of 'minorities' and claim that different play stiles are hindered by not doing what is requested which suggests that a small part of the community wants to lobby its way to the top to have its way, as a consequence I feel its is responsable and dutiful to voice against such dishonest advocating of ones agenda's particularly as it happens via the denigration of the 'norm' (just read a few comments above the 'PVP and OPs are boring and the comparisons to poo brownies)

 

To clarify the situation, while there is lot of decos to grind, this is more of what was added in this patch. New things. They added OPS boss with new weapons you can get from doing said OPS (or with it's currency) which was known beforehand and soloers knew this patch would not bring them anything new to do or get. Then people noticed "hurrah, new decos on vendors, something to grind for us too" and then realized that you need that OPS currency to buy them as well. That created a big disappointment. Those decos are not top tier rewards or rare cosmetics, they are humble breadcrumbs that have been there (this far) for soloers to collect. But now those new ones were all reserved for other playstyle people as well.

 

I am not going into who is minority and who is majority on this game. But i do think that not adding anything to one playergroup is already bad. To actually add something that solo players would enjoy to collect and then lock it behind hard to get currency feels more like slap in the face. Thing is, i think of the health of this game too, and i believe it would damage much more also your game if even more players start to leave this game, than letting solo players buy their vendor decos with currency they get from dailies. How does it even affect any other peoples game if someone buys deco from vendor and puts it in their stronghold and is happy for that? Except like, having happy people around you in the world when playing?

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We all roleplay, just cos someone decides to 'claim the suffix' doesn't give them a right to have the same things everyone else has to work for differently. The poster wanted the patch to adress his issue (above others)

It is disrespectul to claim to be a minority to claim benefits.

As I've mentioned, I play with several players with disabilities of different kinds and they request no special treatment....

nor would they dare escalate with exploits their issue to a thread where its not even the issue at hand (as the issue at hand appears to be

 

I honestly don't really care about the decorations. If I want them I can get them. What I had a problem with was the comment you made about roleplayers and no not everyone roleplays. I know quite a few people that have nothing to do with roleplaying.

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