That reminds me of an old O'Jays song.

 

LMAO - I was thinking of exactly that song when I wrote that line!!!

:thumbs up:

Lol surprised this thread has survived the mass locks so far.

I'm not lol. Look at the stuff being posted in these forums, it's anarchy compared to the stringent controls even just a few weeks ago. Welcome to the new game and the new service level of EA/BW,

I'm not lol. Look at the stuff being posted in these forums, it's anarchy compared to the stringent controls even just a few weeks ago. Welcome to the new game and the new service level of EA/BW,

Firing (almost) your entire community team will do that.

It DIDN'T have to go F2P... did it ....

At the onset of this game, it was a known it was going to be a monthly sub. Early conjecture allowed us to believe it was going to be competitive with WoW's sub, so, most of us in Beta figured $15.00/month.....

More on the Sub model here: http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/bioware-mmo-project/1225612p1.html

So, anyone who shelled out $60 or more for the game, and is now whining for F2P, well, just go get lost, for lack of more terse directions......

The game didn't need to go F2P, at any time, until Bioware sold out to EA......

If the game had developers who knew MMO's, we'd not be here. The LEAD guy obviously has no clue, and can't even make his own forum posts.

If the game had delivered the features that were ripped out during Beta, had the game not been rushed out prematurely for the money grab, we'd not be here.

Had ranked warzones been delivered on time, we'd not be here. Had PVP balance been more tweaked from the onset, instead of massive imbalances brought about by their 'internal testing' (I wonder what body area this 'internal testing' occurred ) and Beta testers that no one listened to.

And, I'll wager their 'Internal Testing' happens on their local LAN connection, rather than from an outside connection.......to simulate ... well, outside connections, where the PAYING players would connect from? Anyone wanna guess how many bugs do NOT get caught due to testing over a LAN connection to the server?

Had the Customer Service been at least adequate, we'd not be here.

Had the designer of the latest fashions been fired on the spot, and his craptastic armor designs scrapped immediately, we'd not be here.

Had the dev team worked on fixing bugs in end game content sooner, we'd not be here. Master loot bugs, Soa's floor pieces missing, I can go on.......

Had augments not made crafting obsolete, we'd not be here.

Had the LFG tool been available MUCH earlier, if not at launch, not been riddled with bugs, especially with finding replacement players, we'd not be here.

Had the graphics been optimized initially, instead of still being sub par, we'd not be here. Who launches a game with no AA?

I can't even whisper a guild member from my guild tab.... I mean... REALLY? I have to type out a guildies name, or keep ALL guildies on my friends list ...??? REALLY ????

No, we're here because for no other reason, other than complete and total FAIL at MMO comprehension and production.

This game has/had so much potential, it makes me sick.

I will tell you one thing: I will not touch a game produced by BW, EA, or any former lead from this dev team, regardless of what company they're working for next year. The current lead hasn't touched code since 16 bit ......I'm sure the role of salesman is satisfactory.........this includes those who are bailing before F2P in order to appear 'clean' of this fiasco.........

I'm at this time still paying my sub, as I'm GM of a fairly progressive guild. I will watch and wait, and see...

But all of this crappola was unnecessary. Calling it an MMO now is insulting to the Genre.

The doctors should hang their head in shame, and BW/EA should NEVER be entrusted with another valuable IP ever again.

'Well, F2P is becoming the industry standard......'

Heh...

WoW was the big boy on the block. Other players in the field wanted a piece of the action. Games were made, but didn't compare.... the F2P model was pursued more rigorously, in order to attempt another piece of the pie.... .

Free appeals to people, no doubt about it.

So, what we end up with, is WoW as P2P, mostly the rest using F2P in order to get YOU wanting that new fluffy pair of pink bedroom slippers that you'll wear while standing around town.

So, now we have 'industry experts' decrying how F2P is the future of gaming .. having the gall to mention Social Media Apps in the same sentence.......

WoW vs. Swtor vs. Farmville? REALLY ...???

It's the CURRENT trend, as long as the industry attempts to rip whatever they can from WoW, rather than create their own unique game. And they try to do so at any cost.........

In a year, maybe two, the saturation of F2P crap games will allow a new window for P2P.......where a company, and their DEV team, set out to make something full featured, optimized, unique, and where the DEV team actually is in charge, rather than SIM playing CEO's who have no real clue about the gaming industry........and MMO's in particular........

Firing (almost) your entire community team will do that.

It's pretty common for F2P games to only offer customer service/tech support etc to paying customers.

Of course it isn't f2p yet, and we are.... Paying..... Customers?

It DIDN'T have to go F2P... did it ....

 

-snip-

 

Well said man, well said!

It DIDN'T have to go F2P... did it ....

 

etc.

/standing ovation

Several of you said something like "now it's all about money".

Um...what was it about before?

This game was made to turn a profit. If you can't handle that, move to a country where making money is a bad thing. People don't make games for fun. Even WoW was made to turn a profit.

Several of you said something like "now it's all about money".

 

Um...what was it about before?

 

This game was made to turn a profit. If you can't handle that, move to a country where making money is a bad thing. People don't make games for fun. Even WoW was made to turn a profit.

You are missing the point.

There is a philosophical shift that occurs in developers once a game transitions from Sub to F2P, especially when RMTs are introduced.

During the Subscription phase of the Developer-Customer relationship, the focus has to be on retaining customers, in order to keep that cash flow coming in through subs.

But, when a game transitions to F2P, the customer's role in the relationship changes, as their inherit value drops. Subscription retention is no longer the primary factor, whereas the RMTs take precedent. At this point of change, developers can do whatever they want, and no longer have to worry about keeping subscribers happy, because the percentage of subscription based players becomes marginal. If the subscribers leave, it's no big deal because the devs can still rely on their primary funding source, which comes from the Free players making purchases from the Cash Store.

That's the point people are making when they say "It's all about the money" because the money becomes the focus moreso than customer satisfaction.

Next up on Dr. Phil, we talk with a reformed Rakghoul, and the Tarisan he married, and what the implications are of zombie-human relationships on their immediate family.

It DIDN'T have to go F2P... did it ....

 

At the onset of this game, it was a known it was going to be a monthly sub. Early conjecture allowed us to believe it was going to be competitive with WoW's sub, so, most of us in Beta figured $15.00/month.....

 

More on the Sub model here: http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/bioware-mmo-project/1225612p1.html

 

So, anyone who shelled out $60 or more for the game, and is now whining for F2P, well, just go get lost, for lack of more terse directions......

 

The game didn't need to go F2P, at any time, until Bioware sold out to EA......

 

If the game had developers who knew MMO's, we'd not be here. The LEAD guy obviously has no clue, and can't even make his own forum posts.

 

If the game had delivered the features that were ripped out during Beta, had the game not been rushed out prematurely for the money grab, we'd not be here.

 

Had ranked warzones been delivered on time, we'd not be here. Had PVP balance been more tweaked from the onset, instead of massive imbalances brought about by their 'internal testing' (I wonder what body area this 'internal testing' occurred ) and Beta testers that no one listened to.

 

And, I'll wager their 'Internal Testing' happens on their local LAN connection, rather than from an outside connection.......to simulate ... well, outside connections, where the PAYING players would connect from? Anyone wanna guess how many bugs do NOT get caught due to testing over a LAN connection to the server?

 

Had the Customer Service been at least adequate, we'd not be here.

 

Had the designer of the latest fashions been fired on the spot, and his craptastic armor designs scrapped immediately, we'd not be here.

 

Had the dev team worked on fixing bugs in end game content sooner, we'd not be here. Master loot bugs, Soa's floor pieces missing, I can go on.......

 

Had augments not made crafting obsolete, we'd not be here.

 

Had the LFG tool been available MUCH earlier, if not at launch, not been riddled with bugs, especially with finding replacement players, we'd not be here.

 

Had the graphics been optimized initially, instead of still being sub par, we'd not be here. Who launches a game with no AA?

 

I can't even whisper a guild member from my guild tab.... I mean... REALLY? I have to type out a guildies name, or keep ALL guildies on my friends list ...??? REALLY ????

 

No, we're here because for no other reason, other than complete and total FAIL at MMO comprehension and production.

 

This game has/had so much potential, it makes me sick.

 

I will tell you one thing: I will not touch a game produced by BW, EA, or any former lead from this dev team, regardless of what company they're working for next year. The current lead hasn't touched code since 16 bit ......I'm sure the role of salesman is satisfactory.........this includes those who are bailing before F2P in order to appear 'clean' of this fiasco.........

 

I'm at this time still paying my sub, as I'm GM of a fairly progressive guild. I will watch and wait, and see...

 

 

But all of this crappola was unnecessary. Calling it an MMO now is insulting to the Genre.

 

The doctors should hang their head in shame, and BW/EA should NEVER be entrusted with another valuable IP ever again.

 

'Well, F2P is becoming the industry standard......'

Heh...

 

WoW was the big boy on the block. Other players in the field wanted a piece of the action. Games were made, but didn't compare.... the F2P model was pursued more rigorously, in order to attempt another piece of the pie.... .

Free appeals to people, no doubt about it.

 

So, what we end up with, is WoW as P2P, mostly the rest using F2P in order to get YOU wanting that new fluffy pair of pink bedroom slippers that you'll wear while standing around town.

So, now we have 'industry experts' decrying how F2P is the future of gaming .. having the gall to mention Social Media Apps in the same sentence.......

 

WoW vs. Swtor vs. Farmville? REALLY ...???

 

It's the CURRENT trend, as long as the industry attempts to rip whatever they can from WoW, rather than create their own unique game. And they try to do so at any cost.........

 

In a year, maybe two, the saturation of F2P crap games will allow a new window for P2P.......where a company, and their DEV team, set out to make something full featured, optimized, unique, and where the DEV team actually is in charge, rather than SIM playing CEO's who have no real clue about the gaming industry........and MMO's in particular........

Definately a melodramtic post but I feel your frustration, also agree with everything you said and it has been said on these forums by many a player over the last 8 months only to fall on deaf ears.

Several of you said something like "now it's all about money".

 

Um...what was it about before?

 

This game was made to turn a profit. If you can't handle that, move to a country where making money is a bad thing. People don't make games for fun. Even WoW was made to turn a profit.

Hmmm. Yep some people may have said something similar, though I think the general sentiment here is that now its about more, easier money for reduced effort and a sub par product.

Being concise is great, but over simplifying and being dismissive simply to have a point serves no one, least of all you.

While profit is a good thing, profit through unethical and shady business practice is not. There's a difference between ambition and greed, a line that can get blurry and is easy to cross. Am I to understand that you think the ends justify the means, profit is the only standard by which to conduct ourselves and any and all practices to obtain it are acceptable? Because if so I think there are some countries you might be more suited for.

While businesses in many places may feel that way, the general public still does not. In the US as well as Canada I think the general pop still wants business to conduct themselves ethically.

F2P, micro transactions and DLC can all be awesome ideas and serve both businesses and gamers, but not the way they're trying to go about it.

Companies like occasionally need a smack to let them know they're out of line or getting close. They'd charge you 300 bucks for a glass of water if they knew they could get away with it. It's our responsibility to stand up for ourselves and let them know what is acceptable and what isn't, through both our wallets and our feedback. That's what's happening here.

Though the fact that you think it's all good and are giving your feedback and money as such is awesome, let's not start deporting people just yet.

Just waiting for an army of Boba Fetts wearing Revan's mask and with a R2-D2 companion to flood the game.

Not to mention Yoda pets, Millenium Falcons, X-wings and Tie fighters.

Several of you said something like "now it's all about money".

 

Um...what was it about before?

 

This game was made to turn a profit. If you can't handle that, move to a country where making money is a bad thing. People don't make games for fun. Even WoW was made to turn a profit.

That's an interesting point. WoW was certainly made to turn a profit, but how did they go about doing it? They released only when their game was polished to their satisfaction; they launched with plenty of content, especially for a game that came out when it did. They responded relatively quickly to provide players with more options on what to do and how to play. Whether you currently like it or not, it's undeniable the game has its own charm, flavor, character...call it what you want.

In short, they created a quality game and banked on it making money. EA...took a different path, shall we say.

That's an interesting point. WoW was certainly made to turn a profit, but how did they go about doing it? They released only when their game was polished to their satisfaction; they launched with plenty of content, especially for a game that came out when it did. They responded relatively quickly to provide players with more options on what to do and how to play. Whether you currently like it or not, it's undeniable the game has its own charm, flavor, character...call it what you want.

 

In short, they created a quality game and banked on it making money. EA...took a different path, shall we say.

Yes and no.

Wow released into a desolate market where not a lot of options existed. TOR has launched into a saturated market. I played a few months of wow, and there's some really fun stuff in there. It wasn't my cup of tea over all, but I think it would be assinine to suggest it was a bad game. What it was however is an anamoly. I 100% beleive we will never see another game achieve the landmarks it has, it was a perfect storm. I think I only played a few days just after launch and then came back later, from what I understand of the history, wow had some MAJOR issues with polish, performance and content at launch. But it was only one of few options, and while I've heard blizzard wasn't exactly quick on a lot of them, they did seem to listen and provide what people wanted.

I only have one experience with play to win. I used to play a ps3 game called The Fight:Light's out. It was fun and you actually got some exercise playing it. I had spent considerable amount of time in the solo player and felt like I could do very well.

I did multiplayer a few times and I noticed that I was getting rocked by guys who never seemed to dodge/weave and just seemed to be hitting to the body. I was like what the world is going on? One day, I noticed that in the play station store was stimpacks you could buy which basically made you invincible. And that was that. I never played multiplayer again. Besides the time it spent to get an opponent, the fact that when you did get an opponent it was highly likely they were just using a pay to win stim pack.

If this game keeps the store to be cosmetic for microtransactions, I'll hang around. If it becomes a pay to win game, well I need to do something else with my time anyway.

This thread makes me kind of sad actually. In the course of reading all the posts and watching the video, I had convinced myself to quit the game, and then conviced myself to stick it out, and back and forth until now I am not sure about any game that is F2P.

From what all have said here about inevitiability of things happening, what does that mean for new games coming out like GW2 or MechWarrior Online? They are F2P at the onset. Are they doomed to follow the inevitible path layed out here?

Why even bother playing games these days then? Let's get back to the PnP table top games.

This thread makes me kind of sad actually. In the course of reading all the posts and watching the video, I had convinced myself to quit the game, and then conviced myself to stick it out, and back and forth until now I am not sure about any game that is F2P.

 

From what all have said here about inevitiability of things happening, what does that mean for new games coming out like GW2 or MechWarrior Online? They are F2P at the onset. Are they doomed to follow the inevitible path layed out here?

 

Why even bother playing games these days then? Let's get back to the PnP table top games.

GW2 should be ok as the publisher as proved through years of managing another F2P title that they can find a way to do it without Pay to Win.

No comment on MW due to lack of knowledge.

If you choose to trust EA with that, well, that's your choice. I've had my burning from them and won't risk a second.

This thread makes me kind of sad actually. In the course of reading all the posts and watching the video, I had convinced myself to quit the game, and then conviced myself to stick it out, and back and forth until now I am not sure about any game that is F2P.

 

From what all have said here about inevitiability of things happening, what does that mean for new games coming out like GW2 or MechWarrior Online? They are F2P at the onset. Are they doomed to follow the inevitible path layed out here?

 

Why even bother playing games these days then? Let's get back to the PnP table top games.

Yeah while some people will try and tell you it's 100% one way or the other my personal opinion is anything could happen at this point. Maybe EA/BW will surprise us, there's just not enough info to know for sure yet.

As for new games coming out? I think the F2P model can work, and even though we're mocked right now

For rocking the boat, publishers are feeling it out and we need to be voicing what we find acceptable and what we don't. If everyone just bailed and tried another game, publishers will just do it again because dissatisfied numbers will get lost in the shuffle. On top of that they're coming out honest about their payment model. Subscribers will steer clear if they prefer not to do the f2p thing, or they won't feel burned and they'll give it a shot, and maybe become converts.