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New expansion; Going to revamp talent trees?


DigitalDreamz

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Let the mass speculation... BEGIN!

 

They already shown us the guardian (1) an assassin (2) ones, in the E3 video, right after the HK51 bit, and before the part about Makeb :

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=nhhUYU07ck8#t=33s

 

(1) the background behind the guardian at the end of his move shows Makeb btw.

 

(2) this move was in the class page animation before launch for either consular or inquisitor, I don't remember which...

Edited by Shoogli
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New active abilities eh.... wat dos dat meen...

Using logic, my bet is a brand new ability on the class trainers for the ACs. In the preview video we saw way back at E3, the Shadow was using Spinning Strikes.

Additionally, a new active ability will be introduced for each Advanced Class.

I don't think it'll be a new ability on the skill tree. Since we're only getting another level added to the tree, it wouldn't make sense to add another ability right above the current 31-point abilities. Also, note that she said it was for each advanced class--not for each skill tree.

Edited by JacenHallis
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I hate to be the one to say this...

 

...but the addition of a new Level-55 skill at the end of the tree does exactly one thing.

 

Unbalances all PVP between Level-50 and Level-55 Players.

 

I must be on my cynical-cycle right now, because I am seeing through to the worst eventuality of each of these announcements.

 

Considering the state of PVP balance right now how in the name of Lucas are they going to balance this?

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I hate to be the one to say this...

 

...but the addition of a new Level-55 skill at the end of the tree does exactly one thing.

 

Unbalances all PVP between Level-50 and Level-55 Players.

 

I must be on my cynical-cycle right now, because I am seeing through to the worst eventuality of each of these announcements.

 

Considering the state of PVP balance right now how in the name of Lucas are they going to balance this?

 

50 was never "end game". We call it end game because it's the end right now. The game was never planned to stay at 50. Lvl.99 has always been the traditional end game in RPG's, but often takes MMO's a decade to reach that point. And to boot, 55 will be likely very temporary. At this time next year we will either have or be very near to an actual full expansion that moves us to 60. It will probably sit there for another year or two and then move to 65/70, etc.

 

There was always a plan to increase the level cap. The full talent trees and abilities for 10-20 levels up are likely planned out. They aren't sitting around scratching their heads to figure out what to do right now.

 

The easiest solution to your querry is that "end game" pvp will probably increase to 55 and WH/EWH will scale to that point. There will be a few weeks where <55 take a beating and then it those players will clear out. It's not a big deal.

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Thank you for a reiteration of a progression I think everyone is already aware of.

 

Perhaps I failed to articulate my concern properly.

 

In the last year we have seen significant shifts in PVP-AC balance that have essentially destroyed a number of specific play styles, created a rolling FOTM AC imbalance, and reduced at least two ACs (Sorc & Merc) to utter uselessness as DPS in Warzones.

 

All of this while fighting to balance out PVP Gear, the Gear Gap, and the Grind.

 

They have demonstrated an inability to balance PVP with the current 50-Level Cap.

 

The addition of 5 more levels brings huge concerns.

 

A major balance patch needs to be implemented and given time to undergo community wide experimentation before Bioware can even begin to make the argument that Level-55 Skills or 31/15 Point Hybrids will actually be balanced.

 

In either event, clearly the additional Skill Points alone means that, without a currently unstated alteration to End Game PVP, anyone who purchases Makeb will have an inherent PVP advantage over those that do not.

 

As I said in other threads, it is not about the $10.00.

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In either event, clearly the additional Skill Points alone means that, without a currently unstated alteration to End Game PVP, anyone who purchases Makeb will have an inherent PVP advantage over those that do not.

 

And I will reiterate that these skill trees and abilities have been planned from the start. So they have always known what they believed would be appropriate changes to balance. This of course changes when something goes live because players will always find ways to play that the devs did not think of. If they see balance issues right now, I'm sure they will be adjusted prior to launch.

 

However, you also must consider that current imbalance issues are solved by the increase in level cap itself with access to talents or the new abilities that would overcome the shortcomings, so no changes need to take place prior to its release.

 

I also believe you are making two assumptions: (1) That BW is stupid. This is not an irrational line of thought; and, (2) That the expansion will be required for the level cap increase.

 

Speaking to #2 I would seriously doubt that. I have never played an MMO that had a level cap increase that was exclusive to the expansion it was implemented around. The most likely scenario is that the cap increase along with its stat points and new abilities is apart of the general patch that launches with the expansion. So player XYZ could pass on the expansion and still level up to 55 through existing content. This would likely take a bit longer since that content was scaled to 50, though if FP's and OPs are scaled to 55 then one would have plenty of appropriate content to level on without having to grind on less powerful stuff somewhere else. If this is the case then no one that purchases the content has a level advantage over those that don't purchase. Though I would not be surprised if there is a CC fee for those that are F2P to increase their level cap as it sits now that "1-50" are free.

Edited by Dawginole
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At this point all of our information about the additional 5-Levels will have been tied to the Makeb Expansion, not a free content patch associated with the launch of Makeb. I would prefer this go live for all players.

 

Your teleological appeal to authority is unfortunately unconvincing.

The same Bioware that apparently had foreseen and planned these future expansions of the skill trees completely overhauled the Sorc community's play style with the change of a single mechanic, has recently broken Sorc play styles with another, while creating immense imbalance with AoE Smash hits for Rage.

 

How in the name of anything is adding an additional 5-Skill Points to a Rage-Spec Marauder or a Bubble Stun Sorc going to do anything but extenuate the imbalance?

 

Sorcs do not even have a viable 31-Point Talent in the Lightning Tree, and yet you trust that Bioware has all of this under control and has since the start?

 

Your faith in Bioware's foresight is nice to see, but inherently misplaced.

 

Personally, I require proof.

 

Balancing current PVP and fixing Sorcs, Marauders, and Mercs would be a good start.

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i have a feeling that the new skills in the skill tree are not gonna just extend. But actually change the tree so u have to spend more in the base. Meaning if u go hybrid u will not get the same abillities cuz u spend more in the beginning tiers.......... I hope that makes sense!!!
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I spend more time looking at my hotbar, resources, and buffs/debuffs than I do the actual game due to the sheer amount of buttons this game requires in order to be 100% effective. By giving us even more buttons to push, not only will I need to reconfigure an already fully loaded hotbar, but I will end up spending even less time watching the fights.

 

...is this what the devs intend?

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We know you're all very interested to hear about how the new level cap is going to affect your class, and I wanted to share a little information about the upcoming changes with you. As part of the new content, every skill tree will be expanding and you can expect significant updates. Players will earn a new skill point with each level, and new skills will be available in each skill tree. Additionally, a new active ability will be introduced for each Advanced Class. We'll have more details about many aspects of Rise of the Hutt Cartel as we approach launch, so keep your eyes on the website and dev tracker!

 

Why not now? There must be some parts of Makeb whose purpose, shape, color or smell you have already decided to be. Or is what you have told us the only thing that is known to not change?

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Oh great, more abilities to clutter up my hotbars. You need to streamline and slim down the number of abilities, every class has several junk skills which could be turned into passives or could be merged with other skills.

 

 

Alright I may be SWTOR's #1 antagonist but this game doesn't have NEARLY as many abilities as some games. Also you can move your UI around to make things easier to see.

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New things are shiny!

 

I am hoping that the changes to the skill trees are the main reason BW is holding off making tweaks pre-launch. After all, is there much point tweaking the system now when it's going to get a shake up in the near future?

 

No doubt there will be plenty of time for tweakage post-launch... :rolleyes:

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Honestly as long as they dont do what WoW didnt forcing you to take X amount of point in a tree bfore you could put any in another I really dont see how this will be that big a deal.

 

 

Everyone seems to look at it like well look what they got or can do and forget you were given the advantages in your class now its your job to take the time to learn how to use it and not cry about what you think everyone else can do.

 

 

It so easy to cry nerf and OPed when you have very little understanding of your own class let alone someone elses.

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I hope they dont revamp the talent tree. Thats the biggest problem i had with wow. Every expansion they changed the tree and you had to learn to build and play your toon from scratch.

 

Actually this sounds ideal to me. Keeps things fresh.

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Honestly as long as they dont do what WoW didnt forcing you to take X amount of point in a tree bfore you could put any in another I really dont see how this will be that big a deal.

 

 

Everyone seems to look at it like well look what they got or can do and forget you were given the advantages in your class now its your job to take the time to learn how to use it and not cry about what you think everyone else can do.

 

 

It so easy to cry nerf and OPed when you have very little understanding of your own class let alone someone elses.

 

Are... are our Forum posters growing more intelligent and civil? You are restoring my faith in Forum based discussion.

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You're crying about 1 new ability? Seriously?

 

Some classes (like Gunslinger) do seem to suffer some level of ability bloat. When you have 3 hot-bars of abilities that you actively use and a fourth hot-bar of abilities that go unused. That IS somewhat cumbersome.

 

 

On the flip side there is Commando which has like 5 abilities in total that get used at 50.

 

 

so, yeah.

 

 

Trim a little bloat here, make some things passive and add some better abilities there and i think it would be a benefit long term.

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  • 3 weeks later...
We know you're all very interested to hear about how the new level cap is going to affect your class, and I wanted to share a little information about the upcoming changes with you. As part of the new content, every skill tree will be expanding and you can expect significant updates. Players will earn a new skill point with each level, and new skills will be available in each skill tree. Additionally, a new active ability will be introduced for each Advanced Class. We'll have more details about many aspects of Rise of the Hutt Cartel as we approach launch, so keep your eyes on the website and dev tracker!

 

Just out of curiosity, will these new "Active Abilities" for each advanced class be available for unlock through the legacy system? What I mean is, will they work like the Class Buffs now, where, once you reach Act 2 on a certain class, you unlock that class' buff for all your other characters?

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Actually this sounds ideal to me. Keeps things fresh.

 

I agree. Figuring out a way to play your class at optimum levels adds another layer of "gaming" to the game. It's akin to RTS games, where once someone finds a counter a certain strategy, you need to re-evaluate and counter the counter. Ok...it's not EXACTLY like that, but it's along the same lines.

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I have 1 of every AC (not counting Mirrors in-game).

 

The only ones that seem to clutter my bars are

A) DPS Operative (the healer Operative has a much simpler rotation) - 3.5 bars not counting adrenals and medpacs.

B).... I only need 3 bars for 7/8 so I guess just DPS ops :)

 

People who say the bars are cluttered are using abilities that are not viable for maximal efficiency.

Edited by AshlaBoga
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