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In favor of ability pruning


dwimorling

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Who are you, my boss? If you are offering to PAY me to "apply my brain" to some tedious chore I wouldn't enjoy, quote me some hourly rates and I'll think about it. Otherwise, I really don't care how indignant you are that I'm not doing my HOMEWORK for a game about space wizards with laser swords.

 

Yes we should change the entire game based around someone who can't do the bare minimum to learn the game and calls it too hard. Opinions like this are valid. /S

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Honestly, the more I read the replies in this thread the more I think how toxic you people you are. :mad:

 

People share their views and opinions of the upcoming changes and you dare disagree with them, even going so far as to point out how wrong they are. Jesus!

 

Where do you get off?

 

Since I'm a subscriber that gives me the right to play the game any way I want and that won't change unless you pay the subscription for me. Why even care about others and what they do in group content in a MMO of all places (are they even subscribers?)

 

As for the changes...I for one approve of them.

 

I do not have the time, months or even years to learn a single rotation for a class. And what do I even get from learning it? A boring experience of pressing 12 buttons again and again.

I need something engaging, something new and fresh that's going to pull me in! Like pressing 3 buttons again and again.

 

My hope is that one day BioWare ends up getting rid of all those cheaters that are killing me in PvP. (No I'm not bad and I don't need to set aside 10 minutes to read a guide. I never died playing the story content so It's obvious that I know what I'm doing)

 

And one last thing I want to add that will prove that the ability bloat is a thing and that BioWare needs to modernize their game.

Is that during FPs I have to use things like interrupts and DCDs (like what the hell are those?). Being able to just hit the boss and watch him die should be enough. (Here's to hoping they end up adding the ability to challenge Malgus to a drift race because that would be so cool and new)

 

At the end of the day BioWare going in this direction is a good thing, hot bar/tab targeting MMOs are so 50BC. And we are going to the future people, whether you like it or not. :cool:

 

 

(this is a joke post, don't take it too seriously and lose your mind)

Edited by RainEbon
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The real truth is, EVERYONE on this forum is a paid employee, except you.

 

Saving for future signature 😂

 

That’s basically what a lot of arguments turn into: “if you disagree with me, you must be a troll or a BW employee.”

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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(this is a joke post, don't take it too seriously and lose your mind)

 

Had us in the first half ngl :D

 

Seriously though, any time I see someone saying pruning is a good thing because they don't like following a rotation...they do know that rotations will still absolutely be a thing and be the most efficient way to play high level content in 7.0 right? It's not as if every skill is going to a 0 second cooldown like with ESO and we're gaining another resource bar + dodges etc etc lol

 

Pruning abilities without appropriate compensation does nothing but remove player agency and the same players who refuse to learn their class will still have no clue how to play their class come 7.0.

 

 

https://sites.google.com/view/merlyn-swtor/home

 

Just gonna leave this here for people who actually want to learn their class via a really good set of guides :cool:

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Yes we should change the entire game based around someone who can't do the bare minimum to learn the game and calls it too hard. Opinions like this are valid. /S

 

What is "the bare minimum"? Who gets to define it?

 

I've completed six of the original class stories, and I'm working on finishing the last two. These are officially considered "achievements" in the game, and it even reminds me of these achievements in my login screen, with glowing gold frames around the class-icons I've completed. I'm too old and cynical to think they're objectively AMAZING achievements, but at least in the game's own opinion, I've done a lot more than "the bare minimum".

 

Or if I tried to explain everything I know about this game to my wife, in order to get her opinion of whether I've done "more than the bare minimum", I'm sure she would very quickly reassure me that it's a LOT more than the minimum of what she ever wanted to hear.

 

Suffice to say, the onlly people ranting and raving with naked contempt about how utterly I've failled to try hard enough are.... well, TRY-HARDS.

 

When reasonable people come into this discussion and gently chide me that "try-hard" is an inflammatory thing to call someone, I almost feel guilty. But then I deal with someone like you, and the feeling evaporates. Now I just want to point you out to those people, and say "this is a try-hard".

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Solo pve casuals: "Look at all these bloated, niche abilities, get rid of them! The game is too complex!"

 

Pvpers: "We use those abilities in every match. They're useful in every situation where you might actually lose."

 

Sole pve casuals: "Well, we never had to use them!"

 

Pvpers: "Exactly."

 

PVE in this game isn't even up to Wow classic standards. If you could imagine a game where npc's moved out of enemy aoe, or they tried to run away, or actually had a chance to win against a player, then you might actually be able to imagine a situation where all these "niche, bloated" abilities would be useful.

 

Stop trying to drag SWTOR down to your level. Thank you.

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What is "the bare minimum"? Who gets to define it?

 

It is the threshold of being functionally proficient in your group role - that is the objective bare minimum - if you can not learn (any game) SWTOR to meet a functionally proficient threshold for group content, or refuse to do so - then by definition, you are not meeting the bare minimum.

 

And as a consequence the wise recommendation that this may not be the right game for you to invest a lot of your time in, to be frustrated by a combat mechanic that demands greater discipline to learning it than Fortnite.

 

:d_rolls_eyes:

 

#insearchof7800707

Edited by Kass
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Solo pve casuals: "Look at all these bloated, niche abilities, get rid of them! The game is too complex!"

 

Pvpers: "We use those abilities in every match. They're useful in every situation where you might actually lose."

 

Sole pve casuals: "Well, we never had to use them!"

 

Pvpers: "Exactly."

 

PVE in this game isn't even up to Wow classic standards. If you could imagine a game where npc's moved out of enemy aoe, or they tried to run away, or actually had a chance to win against a player, then you might actually be able to imagine a situation where all these "niche, bloated" abilities would be useful.

 

Stop trying to drag SWTOR down to your level. Thank you.

 

 

Solo pve casuals: "Look at all these bloated, niche abilities, get rid of them! The game is too complex!"

 

Pvpers: "We use those abilities in every match. They're useful in every situation where you might actually lose."

 

Sole pve casuals: "Well, we never had to use them!"

 

Pvpers: "Exactly."

 

PVE in this game isn't even up to Wow classic standards. If you could imagine a game where npc's moved out of enemy aoe, or they tried to run away, or actually had a chance to win against a player, then you might actually be able to imagine a situation where all these "niche, bloated" abilities would be useful.

 

Stop trying to drag SWTOR down to your level. Thank you

 

"Solo pve casuals: "Look at all these bloated, niche abilities, get rid of them! The game is too complex!"

 

Pvpers: "We use those abilities in every match. They're useful in every situation where you might actually lose."

 

Sole pve casuals: "Well, we never had to use them!"

 

Pvpers: "Exactly."

 

PVE in this game isn't even up to Wow classic standards. If you could imagine a game where npc's moved out of enemy aoe, or they tried to run away, or actually had a chance to win against a player, then you might actually be able to imagine a situation where all these "niche, bloated" abilities would be useful.

 

Stop trying to drag SWTOR down to your level. Thank you"

 

(Solo pve casuals: "Look at all these bloated, niche abilities, get rid of them! The game is too complex!"

 

Pvpers: "We use those abilities in every match. They're useful in every situation where you might actually lose."

 

Sole pve casuals: "Well, we never had to use them!"

 

Pvpers: "Exactly."

 

PVE in this game isn't even up to Wow classic standards. If you could imagine a game where npc's moved out of enemy aoe, or they tried to run away, or actually had a chance to win against a player, then you might actually be able to imagine a situation where all these "niche, bloated" abilities would be useful.

 

Stop trying to drag SWTOR down to your level. Thank you)

 

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

^^^^^^^^^^ ALL THIS ALL DAY EVERYDAY ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So... umm... yeah this is an awesome post! :d_cool:

 

Gud Posting @ Work right here - well done!

 

*(EDIT: Forgot to mention that I absolutely agree with this sentiment if that part wasn't made clear enough)

 

#insearchof7800707

Edited by Kass
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What is "the bare minimum"? Who gets to define it?

The game mechanics knowledge required to complete your chosen activity, depends on the type of chosen activity.

Can be defined by those who already completed that activity.

 

Basically, if you're just doing the class story you can get away with only a basic knowledge of the user interface, however, if you want to try doing group activities, you are expected to do your part as a group member, and while Veteran Flashpoints and Heroics are kind of forgiving to the newer player, and you can learn basic teamwork stuff from doing those, in Master Mode Flashpoints and Operations you are expected to have solid knowledge and experience with your class and understanding the boss mechanics, and in order to be competitive in PvP you better not only know everything about your class, you should also know what the other classes are capable of and how to counter them.

Edited by Voroschuk
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(this is a joke post, don't take it too seriously and lose your mind)

 

Honestly, the more I read the replies in this thread the more I think how toxic you people you are. :mad:

 

People share their views and opinions of the upcoming changes and you dare disagree with them, even going so far as to point out how wrong they are. Jesus!

 

Where do you get off?

 

Since I'm a subscriber that gives me the right to play the game any way I want and that won't change unless you pay the subscription for me. Why even care about others and what they do in group content in a MMO of all places (are they even subscribers?)

 

As for the changes...I for one approve of them.

 

I do not have the time, months or even years to learn a single rotation for a class. And what do I even get from learning it? A boring experience of pressing 12 buttons again and again.

I need something engaging, something new and fresh that's going to pull me in! Like pressing 3 buttons again and again.

 

My hope is that one day BioWare ends up getting rid of all those cheaters that are killing me in PvP. (No I'm not bad and I don't need to set aside 10 minutes to read a guide. I never died playing the story content so It's obvious that I know what I'm doing)

 

And one last thing I want to add that will prove that the ability bloat is a thing and that BioWare needs to modernize their game.

Is that during FPs I have to use things like interrupts and DCDs (like what the hell are those?). Being able to just hit the boss and watch him die should be enough. (Here's to hoping they end up adding the ability to challenge Malgus to a drift race because that would be so cool and new)

 

At the end of the day BioWare going in this direction is a good thing, hot bar/tab targeting MMOs are so 50BC. And we are going to the future people, whether you like it or not. :cool:

 

The scary thing is it’s nearly the same argument being waged by those being serious and wanting the game dumbed down. It’s also the sort of post Bioware might partly read to justify their changes.

Could I suggest you move the red part to the top like I did so BioWare realise it’s satire and not serious.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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It is the threshold of being functionally proficient in your group role - that is the objective bare minimum - if you can not learn (any game) SWTOR to meet a functionally proficient threshold for group content, or refuse to do so - then by definition, you are not meeting the bare minimum.

 

And as a consequence the wise recommendation that this may not be the right game for you to invest a lot of your time in, to be frustrated by a combat mechanic that demands greater discipline to learning it than Fortnite.

 

:d_rolls_eyes:

 

#insearchof7800707

 

Look, if I'm getting heart surgery, I want the surgeon to have "the bare minimum training" to be proficient in his role. That is a context where it's amply justified to have extremely high minimum standards, and not lower them to pander to random, un-invested dilettantes who wouldn't take doing heart surgery seriously enough.

 

But nobody goes to a hospital for FUN, either. Hospitals don't ask random patients what they can do to attract "more casual doctors". Surgeons don't mock people who don't have a doctorate, like the very fact that it's the "minimum" requirement for their job makes those people utterly worthless scum.

 

Well wait, I take that back. Maybe some surgeons do that. But they're jerks.

 

Swtor is a "massively" multiplayer online game. BioWare has a financial incentive to keep it that way. The developers already decided to lower the skill floor to attract more casual players, before I joined this forum to check out how "Combat Styles" was progressing and heard about it.

 

If you had ever asked for my sympathy that the game you've spent time and effort to learn is going to change, maybe I could have shown you some: but it's hard to be sympathetic when you're belittling the difficulty of learning the game, when that is the very same investment you are clearly butt-hurt about being eroded.

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Look, if I'm getting heart surgery, I want the surgeon to have "the bare minimum training" to be proficient in his role. That is a context where it's amply justified to have extremely high minimum standards, and not lower them to pander to random, un-invested dilettantes who wouldn't take doing heart surgery seriously enough.

 

But nobody goes to a hospital for FUN, either. Hospitals don't ask random patients what they can do to attract "more casual doctors". Surgeons don't mock people who don't have a doctorate, like the very fact that it's the "minimum" requirement for their job makes those people utterly worthless scum.

 

Well wait, I take that back. Maybe some surgeons do that. But they're jerks.

 

Swtor is a "massively" multiplayer online game. BioWare has a financial incentive to keep it that way. The developers already decided to lower the skill floor to attract more casual players, before I joined this forum to check out how "Combat Styles" was progressing and heard about it.

 

If you had ever asked for my sympathy that the game you've spent time and effort to learn is going to change, maybe I could have shown you some: but it's hard to be sympathetic when you're belittling the difficulty of learning the game, when that is the very same investment you are clearly butt-hurt about being eroded.

 

Asking for a definition, that you probably didn't expect an answer to, and then playing semantics with the answer.

 

[/sNIP]Self Edit of Belittling Comment by HK-Troll Droid[sNIP/] :d_evil:

 

So using your analogy, lets really drill down on this:

 

A Heart Surgeon working at a respectable Hospital/Surgery Center who knows what they're doing, suddenly and inexplicably has a non-surgeon burst into the operating room and begin telling the real Surgeon that everything they are doing is wrong... that they need fewer incisions and a simple arterial stint is just not enough - where did you get your medical license? A Cracker-Jack Box??!! - What you need is a FULL HEART TRANSPLANT!

 

This is the analogy of what you are attempting to do in this Thread. And you insist on ignoring, challenging, and bickering with anyone that tries to tell you that your wrong.

 

If your mindset is already made up that you are right no matter what, then please tell us how we all need a full heart transplant for SWTOR because "too many buttons".

 

Its just good manners to respect the gaming culture and community you're joining - When in Rome...

 

Otherwise, I'm sure there's an Escape Pod that will be available should you ever need it.

 

#insearchof7800707

Edited by Kass
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Guys at this point I feel we are just getting trolled. Might I suggest we stop the feeding.

 

I resemble that remark --- :d_wink:

 

Personally I'm entertained, but this thread does really need to get back on track.

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I'm not fully against ability pruning TBH. What I am concerned about is the potential to make combat so simple it becomes boring.

 

On the other hand anything outside of PvP is already boring because there is almost no threat of death in PvE unless you are drastically under geared...

 

One bonus I see with people having to choose certain abilities and defensives is that you could start to see AC(s) countering themselves by way of ability choices which would add more complexity to team building and dueling etc...

 

I think Bioware's currently vague Expansion feature description doesn't help peoples concerns but I think there is a chance this could work out... My faith is a bit weak but BW could still surprise us.

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A Heart Surgeon working at a respectable Hospital/Surgery Center who knows what they're doing, suddenly and inexplicably has a non-surgeon burst into the operating room and begin telling the real Surgeon that everything they are doing is wrong... that they need fewer incisions and a simple arterial stint is just not enough - where did you get your medical license? A Cracker-Jack Box??!! - What you need is a FULL HEART TRANSPLANT!

 

This is the analogy of what you are attempting to do in this Thread. And you insist on ignoring, challenging, and bickering with anyone that tries to tell you that your wrong.

 

I suppose you imagine yourself to be the heart surgeon in this analogy, right? But where do the developers fit in? You know, the actual employees of the "institution" we are discussing, who are officially authorized and empowered by upper management with the delicate "surgical procedure" of updating the game code?

 

Surely they are the doctors in this analogy. And I'm not bitterly complaining they're a bunch of morons, you are.

 

Now there are a million reasons an MMO isn't a hospital, so this isn't a great analogy. But considering that it started as your analogy, there's only so much I can do to repair it's flaws.

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I'm not fully against ability pruning TBH. What I am concerned about is the potential to make combat so simple it becomes boring.

 

On the other hand anything outside of PvP is already boring because there is almost no threat of death in PvE unless you are drastically under geared...

 

Therein lies the issue. Remove enough dcd and utility abilities that PvE becomes challenging again, at the expense of less interesting combat that is reduced down to - who does the most damage. Unless the devs find a way to introduce challenge to the game outside of flat out increasing the damage your character takes (and or nerfing companions), there will be less abilities, utilities and combat will be boring.

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I suppose you imagine yourself to be the heart surgeon in this analogy, right? But where do the developers fit in? You know, the actual employees of the "institution" we are discussing, who are officially authorized and empowered by upper management with the delicate "surgical procedure" of updating the game code?

 

Surely they are the doctors in this analogy. And I'm not bitterly complaining they're a bunch of morons, you are.

 

Now there are a million reasons an MMO isn't a hospital, so this isn't a great analogy. But considering that it started as your analogy, there's only so much I can do to repair it's flaws.

 

Please feel free to disagree with my sentiments about the Developers in this thread:

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=995996

 

Otherwise, you've completely missed the point. The analogy wasn't crafted to encompass the Developers themselves, but development of SWTOR as experienced by the players that know it best, opposed to very new players that think a 10 year old game should now be re-engineered to badly imitate #fornite. But those veteran players that have mastered playing the mechanics as built and designed, are instead better suited to provide cogent points for the purposes of providing 'sentiment feedback' to the Community Relations Team to then forward to the Development Team.

 

Incredulity seems to be the flavor of these responses no matter what points or experienced responses are provided. And I can't help but notice you haven't garnered a single supporting post to your positions and arguments - not even a tangental reference of support. Only the title of the thread bares any relation to your "too many buttons"... and that's a generous stretch.

 

I'd add more, but the Community Team seems to get an increase in Report submissions whenever I [/sNIP] Restraining Bolt Engaged [sNIP\] :d_mad:

 

 

 

#insearchof7800707

Edited by Kass
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Therein lies the issue. Remove enough dcd and utility abilities that PvE becomes challenging again, at the expense of less interesting combat that is reduced down to - who does the most damage. Unless the devs find a way to introduce challenge to the game outside of flat out increasing the damage your character takes (and or nerfing companions), there will be less abilities, utilities and combat will be boring.

 

I think the fight turn over will be much faster... Given the limited DCD use healers become much more important in long duration team fights and things like Stealth become much more important and potentially dominant in 1v1 situations.

 

If everyone loses DCD(s) equally it just increases TTK and forces people to engage more carefully outside of the DCD windows not having the ability to constantly rotate DCD(s).

 

Removal of DCD(s) could make guard more valuable in PvP and PvE as well I suppose... just a thought.

 

I like the idea that one Mara/Merc/Jugg can set them self apart from other Mara/Merc/Jugg(s) by way of build/gear/ability choices...That is cool. Ability choices done properly could reintroduce "play styles" to SWToR. The danger is making the options to few and thus making combat lame...

 

Might be kinda cool to specialize your Mara/Sent in stealth and damage a "stick and move" build w/ no real damage reduction CD while others could focus on a more in your face build choosing more damage reduction skills/passives over stealth/Camo...that part I like as long as the choices are plentiful...

Edited by Soljin
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...

 

If everyone loses DCD(s) equally it just increases TTK and forces people to engage more carefully outside of the DCD windows not having the ability to constantly rotate DCD(s).

 

Removal of DCD(s) could make guard more valuable in PvP and PvE as well I suppose... just a thought.

 

...

 

Just a clarification - you mean increase as in lower the TTK? Because right now it's very high... pretty sure that's what you're saying, but just wanted to ask to be sure - in my mind it reads the other way = an increase in TTK would mean longer.

 

You definitely make some valid points about what could happen as a result.

 

The concern I would still have is that the meta will not change, or not change enough. And we will instead see steam rolling of DPS only Unranked Warzones because even less people are willing to risk getting tunneled as a healer, and true tanks like Assassin Darkness are few and far between.

 

The Unranked (and as a consequence Unorganized) PVPers are not going suddenly out of the goodness of their hearts begin to que with characters that would facilitate game play with reduced/pruned DCD's. They are going to adapt and work around it, instead of treading a paved path laid out by the Developers -- there are a LOT of Juggernauts in PVP, and the players have invested a lot of time and effort into their characters - so if the ratio to DwT/DPS so lopsidedly outweighs the number of Tanks & Healers what happens then?

 

The pattern of these discussions that has often been pointed out and I am also seeing/experiencing while participating in this important discussion is the duality of what works in PVE and the complete lack of similarity to what works for PVP.

 

But for game development ... its like two completely different universes in the same game and PvE is PvE and PvP is PvP and never the two shall meet. :d_wink:

Edited by Kass
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Just a clarification - you mean increase as in lower the TTK? Because right now it's very high... pretty sure that's what you're saying, but just wanted to ask to be sure - in my mind it reads the other way = an increase in TTK would mean longer.

 

You definitely make some valid points about what could happen as a result.

 

The concern I would still have is that the meta will not change, or not change enough. And we will instead see steam rolling of DPS only Unranked Warzones because even less people are willing to risk getting tunneled as a healer, and true tanks like Assassin Darkness are few and far between.

 

The Unranked (and as a consequence Unorganized) PVPers are not going suddenly out of the goodness of their hearts begin to que with characters that would facilitate game play with reduced/pruned DCD's. They are going to adapt and work around it, instead of treading a paved path laid out by the Developers -- there are a LOT of Juggernauts in PVP, and the players have invested a lot of time and effort into their characters - so if the ratio to DwT/DPS so lopsidedly outweighs the number of Tanks & Healers what happens then?

 

The pattern of these discussions that has often been pointed out and I am also seeing/experiencing while participating in this important discussion is the duality of what works in PVE and the complete lack of similarity to what works for PVP.

 

But for game development ... its like two completely different universes in the same game and PvE is PvE and PvP is PvP and never the two shall meet. :d_wink:

 

To clarify I meant people will die faster especially if they clone zerg rather than engage thoughtfully while their limited DCD(s) are on CD.

 

I pretty much agree the population will not suddenly start trying to play team builds...That said assuming you can switch loadouts prior to the WZ gate opening people will be able to easily swap to a build more beneficial to their team if they see fit...

 

Also of note depending on how the AC swapping thing plays out you may be able to play your main character juggernaut and without missing a beat switch to a healer AC for the next WZ without changing characters. That said I don't really understand how that system going to function BW seemed pretty vague on that part... I think that type of flexibility will lead to more people switching to tanks and healers for WZs...Possibly.

Edited by Soljin
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Yes, pruning will make tanks and stealth and healers more important than they already are. I don't see that being a good thing.

 

Stealth already has huge advantages in duels and when guarding or attacking nodes. If a non-stealth dps (or tank) node guard doesn't know exactly what he's doing or his cooldowns are on CD he can easily be made a complete fool of by an average stealth user.

 

Tank juggs can often kill two dps juggs if they fight to the death; on test this is still very true.

 

Why do we still have metas where one player that picked the right class/spec is categorically much better than another? Why do we want to increase those disparities?

Edited by Savej
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To clarify I meant people will die faster especially if they clone zerg rather than engage thoughtfully while their limited DCD(s) are on CD.

 

I pretty much agree the population will not suddenly start trying to play team builds...That said assuming you can switch loadouts prior to the WZ gate opening people will be able to easily swap to a build more beneficial to their team if they see fit...

 

Also of note depending on how the AC swapping thing plays out you may be able to play your main character juggernaut and without missing a beat switch to a healer AC for the next WZ without changing characters. That said I don't really understand how that system going to function BW seemed pretty vague on that part... I think that type of flexibility will lead to more people switching to tanks and healers for WZs...Possibly.

 

Thanks for the clarification - yeah you meant exactly what I assumed you did.

 

Boy I hope you are right about the Loadout switching being available before the Warzone gate shields drop, because I have the suspicion that your Loadout will only be able to be changed outside a Warzone and Outside of Combat in the Open World.

 

When things like Adrenals are not even allowed to be utilized in a Warzone, I have a feeling that the mechanics of Loadout swapping will be excluded during a Warzone match -

 

I could imagine the cries and howls if you have stealth classes popping in and out of stealth to a tank or higher dps Loadouts, or Juggernauts finding concealed cover to break line of sight and agro to switch from Rage to Immortal (or vice versa).

 

Now maybe they make it available for only the 2 minutes prior to the start of a match, but I'm not holding out hope that we will see that.

 

With the Dev's being the Demi-Gods of this Universe, I'm just a poor Surgeon trying to cure the 4%ers of SWTOR, so while I'm glad the Devs have chosen to listen to a few of my suggestions, I think Loadouts inside the 2 minute wait of a Warzone is never gonna see the light of day...

 

Because if they do it for Unranked, they'll have to be fair and allow it for Ranked as well - and Ranked players are ferocious about anything they perceive as giving anyone an advantage.

 

I'm also of the mind set that part of the fun of PVP is the pre-planning and strategizing on what build/gear set to use and face stomp all over player #7800707 who thought they new how to play but still have a lot to learn.

 

So I guess I would say while I think its a novel idea to have Loadouts in the waiting period, I'm not sure I'm for it... but I can't say at the moment if I would be against it either.

Edited by Kass
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Thanks for the clarification - yeah you meant exactly what I assumed you did.

 

Boy I hope you are right about the Loadout switching being available before the Warzone gate shields drop, because I have the suspicion that your Loadout will only be able to be changed outside a Warzone and Outside of Combat in the Open World.

 

When things like Adrenals are not even allowed to be utilized in a Warzone, I have a feeling that the mechanics of Loadout swapping will be excluded during a Warzone match -

 

I could imagine the cries and howls if you have stealth classes popping in and out of stealth to a tank or higher dps Loadouts, or Juggernauts finding concealed cover to break line of sight and agro to switch from Rage to Immortal (or vice versa).

 

Now maybe they make it available for only the 2 minutes prior to the start of a match, but I'm not holding out hope that we will see that.

 

With the Dev's being the Demi-Gods of this Universe, I'm just a poor Surgeon trying to cure the 4%ers of SWTOR, so while I'm glad the Devs have chosen to listen to a few of my suggestions, I think Loadouts inside the 2 minute wait of a Warzone is never gonna see the light of day...

 

Because if they do it for Unranked, they'll have to be fair and allow it for Ranked as well - and Ranked players are ferocious about anything they perceive as giving anyone an advantage.

 

I'm also of the mind set that part of the fun of PVP is the pre-planning and strategizing on what build/gear set to use and face stomp all over player #7800707 who thought they new how to play but still have a lot to learn.

 

So I guess I would say while I think its a novel idea to have Loadouts in the waiting period, I'm not sure I'm for it... but I can't say at the moment if I would be against it either.

 

Funny thing I automatically assumed it would be available in the 2 min prelude to a WZ...It never even occurred to me that it wouldn't based off the concept behind offering loadouts to begin with...Seems funny to cripple the flexibility they provide by forcing people to switch before entering an instance.

 

Certainly should be locked once the WZ "starts". No out of combat switches...

 

I always assumed in PvE instances you could change a loadout any time you exit combat... Seems like a good idea to switch strats mid instance and change group configuration... Once again it seems counter intuitive to having "loadouts" without being able to use them except standing in fleet or your stronghold...

Edited by Soljin
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