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The weird people you meet in Group Finder.


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I don't know, why people list for aöö fps, if they don't want to do them.

 

I always have all FPs checked and will welcome any MM that comes up. But I will be an instant quitter if I find out that I have been grouped with a bunch of people in 270s.

 

I don't care what people say about MM that can be done in any rating and I don't mind one undergeared person in the group. But not the whole group.

Edited by demotivator
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I always have all FPs checked and will welcome any MM that comes up. But I will be an instant quitter if I find out that I have been grouped with a bunch of people in 270s.

 

I don't care what people say about MM that can be done in any rating and I don't mind one undergeared person in the group. But not the whole group.

 

how did you gear up? in mm fps? just like 99% of the players?

 

that kind of behaviour is very anti social

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how did you gear up? in mm fps? just like 99% of the players?

 

that kind of behaviour is very anti social

 

No, what is anti-social is using group-finder and expecting other players to carry your inexperienced, undergeared butt through the harder MM flashpoints. Unfortunately players that have been carried usually don't realize it.

 

I don't know about the player you are quoting but I geared up in Vet fp (on 2 servers) and didn't even queue up for the easier MM until I had 280 plus gear AND a tactical. I don't queue for ALL MM flashpoints until I have 306 gear, set bonus, and a decent tactial. For dps specs I do a quick parse on the 3.5 mil target dummy. If I can't hit 15k dps (which is a pretty low, easy to get, parse nowadays) I don't queue for MM fp on that class. Most flashpoints can be done with one good dps, and one mediocre (or even bad) dps, but the harder ones just cannot be done with TWO mediocre/bad dps. There is only so much a good tank/heal can do without having proper dps.

 

Now, if you want to pre-form a group then by all means run with whatever level and gear you and you teammates want to.

 

HOWEVER if you are using group-finder for MM flashpoints then you should have at least 2 out of these 3 area's checked off:

 

1. Be geared (decent stat balance, tactical at the very least)

2. Know the fights

3. Know your class abilities and how/when to use them (including dcds, interrupts, and cc's)

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i would like to know which fps are demanding any kind of dps nowadays?

a properly geared vg tank deals the dps which is needed from a dps...

 

short list:

Korriban 2nd boss

Manaan 2nd boss (more mechanics, but dps/tank need to know how to avoid taking damage)

Tython 1st, 3rd boss (again mechanics and avoiding taking damage rather than actual dps check)

Blood Hunt

Lost Island

All Traitor Arc fp

Meridian

 

Do you even use group-finder as a heal or tank spec?

 

I like heals, I prefer playing heals, but lately have been queueing as dps even with the longer times to pop because that way I know at least one dps in the group will be good. As a dps I can compensate for weak heals or for a weak tank, but as a heals I can't do much about weak dps. I can only do decent off-dps when the tank/dps are good players. Poor tanks/dps tend to take more damage then normal, meaning more heals are needed leaving no energy for decent off-dps.

 

I am really tired of getting 5 or more bomb stages on that 2nd Korriban boss. I had one LI group that I babied through to the last boss only to have then go to six (6!) tanks before getting to the burning rakghoul stage. That's a stage that good dps can get to after only 2 tanks, or 3 at the most.

 

Having smug elitists, who probably don't even do full pug groups, constantly blathering on about how easy MM is, only ensures that even more crap dps will be in the queue. Meaning your chance of getting 2 bad dps popping in to the harder MM flashpoints is pretty high.

 

Thanks for that. Thank you very much.

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short list:

Korriban 2nd boss

Manaan 2nd boss (more mechanics, but dps/tank need to know how to avoid taking damage)

Tython 1st, 3rd boss (again mechanics and avoiding taking damage rather than actual dps check)

Blood Hunt

Lost Island

All Traitor Arc fp

Meridian

 

 

Thanks for that. Thank you very much.

korriban- not really a dps check 6k per dps is sufficient

manaan - has only the 5 min timer on the last boss. everything else including bonus boss its no matter of dps

tython - has no enrage timers at all

blood hunt - you need 4.5 k dps per dps which is what the tank should do

lost island - only sav-rak has a real enrage which is at 4m 40s which is an eternity

all traitor arc - none of the bosses has any enrage

meridian - no enrages either

 

the point is that if you have autohit cowboys- then you have autohit cowboys.

gear doesnt matter at all. and what the guy says is that he will quit if their gear is too low, which is just stupid.

you can have super shiny 306 and only autoattack or you can have green ******** gear and press the right buttons and will still do more than 2 the damage of an autohit cowboy.

if you have shiny 306 set gear 1 dps will do enough for every flashpoint boss there is.

e.g. blood hunt first boss: back in the days on lvl 70 before the increased enrage timer and the 500th nerf of the adds you needed 16k raid dps. now a vg/pt can pull off 14k at this boss. and you have 1 min more time than when you needed the 16k. this means the 2nd dps, the tank and the heal-pet need to get on a combined whopping 2k of dps. if we calculate wth the old timer.

there are literally no dpschecks which are in any world gear dependent.

gf is a lottery. and gear means absolutely nothing.

and a good heal and tank can carry even the *******st dps nowadays.

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@Opiklo Just don't discuss with Little Dragon. He has his own viewpoints. You can't change them. It is, what it is.

 

She, stop assuming everyone who plays swtor is a guy. Just stop it. I've seen the theorycrafter discord, and yes it's a dudebro lockerroom atmosphere there, but that is not a good sample of the playerbase in the game.

 

My viewpoints are based on actual in-game experiences with using group-finder. Something which is used by all classes and specs, btw, not just the current NiM raider favorites.

 

If any of you 'ooh things are so easy types' want to put me on legacy ignore then please do so. I doubt you use group-finder so it doesn't matter to me.

 

One of my Star Forge characters if you want to ignore me: Signald

Satale Shan character: Drel Ruf

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...If any of you 'ooh things are so easy types' want to put me on legacy ignore then please do so. I doubt you use group-finder so it doesn't matter to me.

Funnily enough, I have your correspondent on ignore on the forums (*) but not you.

 

I have to say it is a pain to have people on the later FPs in MM (not talking about MM Hammer Station here) who don’t have/do the following, especially because such people also tend to not wait for or listen to mechanics and PoA discussion:

1. Be geared (decent stat balance, tactical at the very least)

2. Know the fights

3. Know your class abilities and how/when to use them (including dcds, interrupts, and cc's)

To bring this back to topic is the experience from last week: Level 75 healer in decent gear who spent MM SoV spamming basic attack and throwing random heals to break up the tedium. We had to abandon the effort.

 

(*) I never seem to remember why I ever did that with any poster.

Edited by mike_carton
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I will not discuss the same over and over in three differents threads. So i will quote myself...

 

If you demand gear requirement for basic flashpoints, on top of being five level above the mobs in the flashpoint, the game takes another step in the wrong direction. You make the game once again easier for the players.

 

Bioware made nightmare endgame gear accessible for everyone.

Bioware made everyone a level 75 for level 70 master mode flashpoints with generous sync.

Bioware gave everyone additional 30 veteran edge stacks. For hard flashpoint even more (Chiss, 59).

Bioware gave you everything.

And on top of all of that, players want still minimum gear requirement, because they can't do it, if only one player doesn't meet this overpowered requirements!?

Again: if you're at this point in your swtor-life, you just need to face the fact, that it is probably you. It doesn't change, if you call me toxic. It's just a fact. Face the truth.

 

Where will it stop? It's called master mode. Do you want to enter the room and all mobs die? In master mode?

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Looks like you haven't played Blood Hunt with 3 bolstered Lowbies recently. Especially when they are under level 30.

Well, he was talking about MM FPs where he can't really meet characters lower than 70.

But isn't there a level restriction in VET FPs now (since Onslaught)? As in what is available in GF opens up as you level, so BH only should come into play at level 50 or 60 anyway?

 

Generally MM Fps aren't really gear dependant but looking at someone's gear might give a clue of how well they will listen and follow directions. Though looking at how many FPs (especially the more difficult ones) they did probably is more helpful for that.

 

To return to the actual topic of this thread:

Spirit of Vengeance MM a few days after release, group of three from my guild, tank and two dps (that usually play healers until recently) and a random healer.

Since we did the FP a few times before the mechanics were mostly clear though the execution not always the best since the two main healers struggled with playing the dps role too.

The healer didn't say hello but already moaned in chat for getting into that FP again yet he didn't leave the group. He clearly wanted to get through quickly though and had an annoying habit to pull stuff himself.

The bosses went not perfectly but alright, nobody blamed the healer for dying from their own faults and the healer only died once at first boss, also due to himself ignoring the mechanic and not using any ability to get free from the root.

Then comes Troya Ajak as far as we understood at that point the player targeted by that canalised shot moves to hide behind a corner or edge to avoid the damage and not get one shot (the run was still before the patch that lowered the damage significantly). Unfortunately it didn't work either due to players being to slow or the shot still killing them despite being behind cover, the boss died in the first attempt though and it was us who died and nobody complained towards the healer.

The healer though started writing condescendingly about whether we did the FP before (again, it was a few days after release) and knew what we were doing there, one of our DPS wrote truthfully to have been there once before.

No answer given to that, not an explanation what we did wrong there or anything, just the vibe of *gods, are you bad! what do I have to put up with here* and more pulling trash and last boss by the healer plus leaving at the end without any further word.

That player was collectively ignored then. We have no problem with being told being bad, but without specific explanation of why and how that's not just rude but simply utterly useless.

How do players expect inexperienced players to learn and do better next time if they don't even tell them what went wrong.

Edited by Khaleijo
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Well, he was talking about MM FPs where he can't really meet characters lower than 70.

But isn't there a level restriction in VET FPs now (since Onslaught)? As in what is available in GF opens up as you level, so BH only should come into play at level 50 or 60 anyway?

 

Generally MM Fps aren't really gear dependant but looking at someone's gear might give a clue of how well they will listen and follow directions. Though looking at how many FPs (especially the more difficult ones) they did probably is more helpful for that.

 

To return to the actual topic of this thread:

Spirit of Vengeance MM a few days after release, group of three from my guild, tank and two dps (that usually play healers until recently) and a random healer.

Since we did the FP a few times before the mechanics were mostly clear though the execution not always the best since the two main healers struggled with playing the dps role too.

The healer didn't say hello but already moaned in chat for getting into that FP again yet he didn't leave the group. He clearly wanted to get through quickly though and had an annoying habit to pull stuff himself.

The bosses went not perfectly but alright, nobody blamed the healer for dying from their own faults and the healer only died once at first boss, also due to himself ignoring the mechanic and not using any ability to get free from the root.

Then comes Troya Ajak as far as we understood at that point the player targeted by that canalised shot moves to hide behind a corner or edge to avoid the damage and not get one shot (the run was still before the patch that lowered the damage significantly). Unfortunately it didn't work either due to players being to slow or the shot still killing them despite being behind cover, the boss died in the first attempt though and it was us who died and nobody complained towards the healer.

The healer though started writing condescendingly about whether we did the FP before (again, it was a few days after release) and knew what we were doing there, one of our DPS wrote truthfully to have been there once before.

No answer given to that, not an explanation what we did wrong there or anything, just the vibe of *gods, are you bad! what do I have to put up with here* and more pulling trash and last boss by the healer plus leaving at the end without any further word.

That player was collectively ignored then. We have no problem with being told being bad, but without specific explanation of why and how that's not just rude but simply utterly useless.

How do players expect inexperienced players to learn and do better next time if they don't even tell them what went wrong.

 

From all the people on the server, he attacked you and your guildmates? Were you incognito? No guild tag?

 

But honestly... a healer pulling in master mode? Straight to ignore. Or let him tank what he pulls.

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  • 3 weeks later...

2 weeks without weird people post? O.o

 

Anyway, here’s mine.

 

Doing the daily GF ops which is Dread Palace, this tank a full augmented 306 sin but weirdly stat that have 1k-ish acc, 200 ala and maybe some crits. There’s this new thing about GF ops q where either tank/heal q outside but this tank keep insiting to have 8 members on the group. Shrug it as “maybe new guy”, never tell the group that it was their first time. Finish Bestia with no problem at all. Then Tyrans where all went wrong (not really but still went wrong.)

 

This tank also keep insisting that they already beat DP for couple of time but their cheevo still at 1/5. Wipe at first try then the DwT take the mantle to properly place the boss. We cleared.

 

3rd boss oh well, now its my sniper turn to become a makeshift tank where i got most of the agro and that tank actually die when on first portal where they keep attacking boss. Everyone who have brez decided not to brez this tank, they dont say anything but they all dont brez them.

 

4th boss, the lead now try explaining the fight coz its a little complicated but guess what? The tank start pulling when lead still in “get crystal in next room” explaining phase and this is where everyone start voicing their discontent toward the tank, tank got kicked after we wipe. After that the DwT swap to tank gear and we finish without problem.

 

This newer generation of new player really baffles me, they never listened nor want to admit its their first try and yet always wonder why everyone in group hates them. For new player reading this, please learn to listen and not be a d*ck toward others or you will turn like this tank where at least 4 player put them on ignore.

Edited by Zechalakazam
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As a fairly new player, the attitude of the ""new"" players are terrible.

 

Example 1:

I was leveling my ~lv55 merc tank (didn't realize I haven't got all classes to lv75). Got D7 with at least one lv75.

The group clearly have no idea where they should go, can't follow kill order, pull trash multiple times when I lead and zip-zapping through the map. But that's ok, I always went back for them, taunting the trash they accidentally pulled away from them, and saved their asses multiple times.

When we were going through the last part, where you can run through 2 groups of trash that spawned, I waited for everyone before the triggering point, ran together, and when unsurprisingly, they were too slow and aggroed the trash, I ran back, group taunt the trash to save them.

THE *********** RAN AWAY AND LEFT ME TO DIE. I struggled for about 30 sec and none of them thought of going back to kill the big group they aggroed??

AND THEN THEY HAD THE NERVE TO THROW ME A "JUST RUN" WHEN I SAID "IT'S NICE THAT NO ONE COME BACK AND SAVE ME".

 

I should let them *********** wipe. They would wipe at least 5 times if I was not around. **** them.

 

Example 2:

Cademimu. 4 lv75. 2 Jugg tanks. 2 Snipers (me and the other)

Should be a piece of cakes right?

One of the tank kept aggroing everything. And I mean everything. LITERALLY.

He was clearly not 306 geared, he didn't los, no guard, no nothing, just jump at random trash in the corner when we were avoiding it, got himself and us almost killed multiple times.

The other sniper typed -_- and o_o every time the tank pulled another random trash. I finally fed up before the first boss and vote kicked him. Vote went through fast.

The guy got kicked whispered me saying "you are not very nice, I'm new to this game"

I said "when I was new, I didn't pull ****" (tbh I thought he was the kind of jerk who aggros everything for kicks)

He had the audacity to say something like "I pulled but no one died I don't see what's wrong"

WE DIDN'T DIE BECAUSE WE HAVE 3 OTHER LV75, ONE OF WHICH WAS A TANK, AND THE TWO DPS WERE FULLY GEARED AND KNEW WHAT THEY'RE DOING. If he's with a team who were new or simply too low a level to handle the big groups with elite droids, that's guaranteed wipe, multiple times, and that's a fact. I told him so and he stayed silent after that.

 

Fast forward to the boss fight.

The other tank, turned out, didn't know about the fight either. HE STOOD UNDER THE FIRE WHEN BOTH US SNIPERS RAN TO THE SAFE CORNER and watched the tank showing under fire.

The other sniper made another o_O face because, shockers, I, too, had no idea this tank was also a noob.

(Un)fortunately my lv50 Theron was too good, he healed through the burn and we killed the boss with no one died.

I whispered the other sniper "Damn those Sith, we can't trust them"

She whispered back "Nope."

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Not really a "weird" experience but I just don't understand what really happened here.

 

Queued into MM FP Crisis on Umbara. For background, I've healed a number of MM FPs and HM op's before and I'm fully geared, but I hadn't done this particular FP in MM before. The tank quit the group before we even phased in, so we queued again for another tank. Finally we got one but he waited a bit outside of the FP for a few minutes. We said Welcome and we let him know we hadn't started yet. He ignored that and said "Have you healed this before?". I said not this one yet. And then he immediately quit.

 

Does the DPS not matter, just the healer does? He hadn't phased in so he couldn't have checked my achievements. We couldn't find a third tank and had to quit :(

 

Anyway, I was just baffled why players even queue for MM fps if they are going to quit immediately without giving anyone a chance.

Edited by amelianorello
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Does the DPS not matter, just the healer does? He hadn't phased in so he couldn't have checked my achievements. We couldn't find a third tank and had to quit :(

For Umbara? I've finished it a dozen times or so (and wiped about the same number). I would say having good dps who can both deal damage, and avoid taking damage, is more important than just having a good healer.

 

You probably just had a bad tank there. You know the type. They stand in avoidable aoe, ignore mechancis, and then yell at the healer for not healing them enough.

 

Anyway, I was just baffled why players even queue for MM fps if they are going to quit immediately without giving anyone a chance.

That seems to be happening a lot lately. I keep getting players who drop as soon as a flashpoint pops up. There's no real pattern either. I've had them drop from more than one flashpoint, some are hard flashpoints but some are faceroll easy flashpoints.

 

They don't say anything, just 'poof', and they're gone. I'm not sure if they're trolling or what game they're playing, but they go on my ignore list.

 

There is a filter for flashpoints. Use it if you are not willing to run all the flashpoints.

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I saw this SWTOR Streamer last week on Twitch. He is fairly new. Playing roughly eight weeks or so, after a long hiatus.. He has experience as Tank from other MMOs and is rolling a PT-Tank. Mandalorian, you know.

 

After doing the Story and hitting level cap he starts queueing Flashpoints. Along the way he build his own Community. Mostly Casuals, but he befriended some NiM-Players as well. After some weeks he gets decent enough gear, for doing Master-Mode Flashpoints. He even reach the almighty 306 gear and has done almost all Master-Mode Flashpoints. Including SoV. Sometimes with his new „friends“, the NiM-players, sometimes with more casual allies.

 

You might think, he is good, but he has much to learn. He did like a trillion Hammer-Station runs along the way. Veteran- and Master-Mode. But he still stands to long in the cleave of the final boss. Much much room for improvement. The first time, he played a healer in Hammer-Station Master-Mode, his tank died because he didn't know, he had to cleanse the laser. :)

 

You see the problem here? The community of this game is to lazy to explain mechanics to beginners. Somebody told him. „Yeah, Hammer-Station, first boss, as a Tank, … just stand there. Healer is doing the rest.“. Not nice. Not helpful in the long run.

 

But this roflstomp through content with the name „master“ in it,.. it does something with people.

 

It happens to be, that he never did Czerka Core Meltdown. Neither Veteran- nor Master-Mode. This time he queues alone, 100% random groupfinder. They reach the Sandstorm-Generator-Boss. He says to his Twitch-Chat, „Never been here. Is this a boss? What does he do?“, and pulls. He does not inform his group or wait for explanation from his Twitch-Chat.

 

He stands in the middle of the arena and tanks the boss. The healer does an extraordinary job, but eventually the group gets low and it is a wipe. Right before everyone dies, our tank says „Healer? Why are you not healing?“. He simply has not the situational awareness to grasp, what is going on.

 

What i want to say is this:

 

On the one hand, we have the community, experienced players, that simply don't tell beginners everything. It takes too much time to explain boss-mechanics. They never tell a Tank a boss-mechanic, which a Healer has to execute.

 

On the other hand, we have new players, who get so used to roflstomp through every content, that they think, they are without fail. Since they almost completed all challenging 4-person-group-content, … it must be the healers fault. They simply don't know, that they don't know nothing about this game.

 

And this leads to my third point. They don't asked for instructions, because everything is easy peasy. And the one time something gets hard, there are like one or three seasoned veterans in overpowered gear in the back, to make sure, nothing bad will happen. They never ask for mechanics, because they never learned, that mechanics matter in this game. And this is Biowares fault.

 

TLDR. Bads are bad because 1. nobody teaches them anymore, 2. new players are not interested in learning, 3. Bioware makes everything too easy.

 

Edit: regarding point 2 "new players are not interested in learning". look at the forums. we have like 3 to 5 differents threads "nerf SoV", but not one, not a single one, is asking "i don't understand? what do i have to do to beat these bosses?". It goes just straight to "i died, you have to nerf this. now". And now we wait for 3 to happen. Bioware.. your turn.

Edited by SoontirMorillo
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He stands in the middle of the arena and tanks the boss. The healer does an extraordinary job, but eventually the group gets low and it is a wipe. Right before everyone dies, our tank says „Healer? Why are you not healing?“. He simply has not the situational awareness to grasp, what is going on.

 

Thats why I main sorc heal - I pull him where he has to go or write it.

Sometimes they get the hint after I fracture their spine :)

 

The problems you adress are Biowares and the players fault.

If something is too difficult, players complain so long about it that BW makes it easier.

I remember when Umbara and Chiss were difficult ... but at least you can do it with randoms now.

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When I was new (started a year ago, never even played mmo before)

I said "Hi, i'm new to FP, pls show me how to kill boss etc."

And people taught me. Both how to go around the map and how to kill boss.

Typing that line isn't difficult if you can play this game.

 

Now?

Me: Anyone new to this FP?

No response. Wipe because no one except me has a clue of what's going on.

 

Me: (Hammer Station) Healer, please cleanse "laser" when it reaches 5 stacks.

No cleanse half of the time. If I was really lucky, no heal either (lv75 healer who doesn't heal... *** are you even here?)

 

Me: Stealth class, please use sleep dart/mind trap on marked enemy.

No response.

On a good day, the stealth class ask what a sleep dart/mind trap is and actually learn it.

On a normal day, there will be no response at all so I simply sigh and pull.

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When I was new (started a year ago, never even played mmo before)

I said "Hi, i'm new to FP, pls show me how to kill boss etc."

And people taught me. Both how to go around the map and how to kill boss.

Typing that line isn't difficult if you can play this game.

 

Now?

Me: Anyone new to this FP?

No response. Wipe because no one except me has a clue of what's going on.

 

Me: (Hammer Station) Healer, please cleanse "laser" when it reaches 5 stacks.

No cleanse half of the time. If I was really lucky, no heal either (lv75 healer who doesn't heal... *** are you even here?)

 

Me: Stealth class, please use sleep dart/mind trap on marked enemy.

No response.

On a good day, the stealth class ask what a sleep dart/mind trap is and actually learn it.

On a normal day, there will be no response at all so I simply sigh and pull.

 

This is what bothers me ALOT, newer player these days dont even told the group its their first time and some of them even says that they complete said FP/OPS multiple time even though their cheevo says otherwise.

 

Someone on earlier post have a good point of saying “since its easy to run through content, new player will just assume its easy and its the healer fault on wipe”

 

I mean, if a new player told at least me that its their first time, I will spare the time to explain mech to them. But, if they dont tell group its their first time even though I check cheevo, I wouldn’t bother to explain.

Edited by Zechalakazam
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New players, just say you are new (even if you have done the Vet version, some MM have different mechanics).

 

I have had good experiences with new'ish players. I have pugged all the harder flashpoints (including Umbara) where 2 or more players in the group were new to them. ... I have BEEN that player who is new to fights. Everyone is new at one point.

 

Assuming a player has learnt their class properly and has decent gear (not max, just decent)*, then they should be fine with any MM flashpoint. If they let people know they are new to MM and also listen to explanations of the fight then the run will go much smoother.

 

... most flashpoint boss explanations are 'like Veteran only things hit harder and have more hitpoints'. There are only a few where you will need more than a couple if sentences to explain mechanics.

 

 

* pay attention to your stats when gearing. That 258 gear that was great on your level 70, will be terrible gear on your level 75.

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I did got a new player who said he's new.

It was Cademimu and he's the only lv75, a tank even.

 

It was fun because even though we died a few times, we knew he was trying so no one's being a dick about the accidents. We did lol at him jumping on the long lift and died of fall damage... it was amusing watching new players do that and learned it the hard way (like I did). He even remembered what I asked him at the beginning and put guard on me (heal) every time after he died so hey, that's good. Better than that one "veteran" jerk tank I got from a MM FP who said I was a noob for asking for guard, after he stood there and watched me used up all my DCDs and killed by the whole group of trash because the jerk tank can't hold aggro so I ended up getting all the aggro trying to keep the whole team, especially the poor DPS, alive. That earned my rage quit and the tank on my ignore list.

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