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Warning/Question About Chapter 9 Romance


Johnkorriban

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I will admit though Bioware does make things weird in possible romances in their games.

 

In Dragon Age Origins I romanced Alistair from the get go, but in aconversation with Leliana I said i liked shoes, then she wigged out on me for being in love with Alistair ...

 

Apparently in Orlais saying you like shoes means "I luuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrve you!!!!!!!" :p

 

 

That's exactly the sort of thing I've been talking about with Bioware's history of being unclear or surprising with the NPC/companion interactions too often to trust the most obvious meaning to be true every time.

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When THERON is speaking to YOU & the CAMERA is on HIM, the implication is that the text refers to THERON.

 

Bioware didn't design this very well, hence lots of people doing the same as I did.

 

Your comment was unhelpful & insulting btw. No matter how you try to divert blame to the customers, Bioware screwed this up (as they have so many other things).

 

This is why I asked if someone had a YouTube link to this scene.

 

People harping on the "clear meaning of the text" are missing or just deliberately ignoring that the text is not the only information being presented to the player at the moment in question -- there are also cinematic ques that can't be ignored.

 

The fixation on the text-only interpretation of this scene, to the exclusion of everything else going on on the screen, and the downright angry and aggressive reaction to anyone who was confused by the conflicting textual and cinematic ques, really makes me wonder how many of those angry aggressive people have some sort of "spectrum" disorder, vs how many are just being tools for the sake of being tools, vs how many people just aren't grown up enough to realize that different people can react to the same thing differently without being "stupid" or "illiterate". :rolleyes:

 

 

But then, there will always be people on these forums who consider it the height of fun to try to make other players the butt of Bioware's mistakes.

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This is why I asked if someone had a YouTube link to this scene.

 

People harping on the "clear meaning of the text" are missing or just deliberately ignoring that the text is not the only information being presented to the player at the moment in question -- there are also cinematic ques that can't be ignored.

 

The fixation on the text-only interpretation of this scene, to the exclusion of everything else going on on the screen, and the downright angry and aggressive reaction to anyone who was confused by the conflicting textual and cinematic ques, really makes me wonder how many of those angry aggressive people have some sort of "spectrum" disorder, vs how many are just being tools for the sake of being tools, vs how many people just aren't grown up enough to realize that different people can react to the same thing differently without being "stupid" or "illiterate". :rolleyes:

 

 

But then, there will always be people on these forums who consider it the height of fun to try to make other players the butt of Bioware's mistakes.

 

When I experienced it, I had to question what would happen. But I know that many answers don't end up the way I expect based on what is said/written in this game, so I picked it to find out expecting to use escape if it went to Theron.

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This is why I asked if someone had a YouTube link to this scene.

 

People harping on the "clear meaning of the text" are missing or just deliberately ignoring that the text is not the only information being presented to the player at the moment in question -- there are also cinematic ques that can't be ignored.

 

The fixation on the text-only interpretation of this scene, to the exclusion of everything else going on on the screen, and the downright angry and aggressive reaction to anyone who was confused by the conflicting textual and cinematic ques, really makes me wonder how many of those angry aggressive people have some sort of "spectrum" disorder, vs how many are just being tools for the sake of being tools, vs how many people just aren't grown up enough to realize that different people can react to the same thing differently without being "stupid" or "illiterate". :rolleyes:

 

 

But then, there will always be people on these forums who consider it the height of fun to try to make other players the butt of Bioware's mistakes.

 

Well, to those who saw [Flirt] I'd like to speak to one of you. (<---see that, it says ONE OF YOU, not "I'd like to speak to you" or "I'd like to speak to Theron") and were right, it only makes sense for them to think "It was obvious, didn't you even read the text?"

 

There was always clicking on it and ESCing as well for those who couldn't read.

 

However out of this, we have good news. It's now posted here and on Dulfy. So no one should ever misread it again! :)

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Here's my thing:

 

I'm not here to argue whether or not I screwed up somewhere along the way or defend why I screwed up. Because I do admit to having a lapse in judgement when I got to this part of the chapter on the first toon I ran it with, not noticing my mistake until I saw a Youtube video with the romance lock-in (which I wasn't aware happened at first as this was the first instance of it in the game).

 

I've remedied my mistake with my most recent run of KOTFE, so I'm not worried about that.

Now, my concern is about if those who missed it will get a second chance, especially those who were romancing one of them since Rishi.

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This is why I asked if someone had a YouTube link to this scene.

 

People harping on the "clear meaning of the text" are missing or just deliberately ignoring that the text is not the only information being presented to the player at the moment in question -- there are also cinematic ques that can't be ignored.

 

The fixation on the text-only interpretation of this scene, to the exclusion of everything else going on on the screen, and the downright angry and aggressive reaction to anyone who was confused by the conflicting textual and cinematic ques, really makes me wonder how many of those angry aggressive people have some sort of "spectrum" disorder, vs how many are just being tools for the sake of being tools, vs how many people just aren't grown up enough to realize that different people can react to the same thing differently without being "stupid" or "illiterate". :rolleyes:

 

 

But then, there will always be people on these forums who consider it the height of fun to try to make other players the butt of Bioware's mistakes.

 

The options are 100% the same except for one minor deviation.

 

Option 1: I need to speak with one of you.

Option 2: [Flirt] I need to speak with one of you.

 

If you follow through logically, its clear a choice of some kind is about to be made between the three people you are in the scene with. Both options can't apply to just Theron just because the camera stopped on him, I'll admit it was a minor cinematographic faux pas but not enough to impair deductive reasoning except for those who don't have it, or make assumptions. Clicking on option one you get an option to select from three people. If we're to follow the logic other posters have suggested, then they should have believed that BOTH options applied to only Theron, and the moment they selected the non-flirt option and had a choice should have realized that it was likely true for the flirt option. Pick option 1, and you choose between the three, or pick option 2 and you choose between the three.

 

You can't say, I assumed I was talking to Theron so I selected the non-flirt when by the same logic you should have assumed both were directed at Theron because 'the camera stopped on him,' and upon realizing that, that wasn't the case on option 1 they should have realized it was at the very least possible for it not to be the case on option 2.

 

The people complaining about this are only victims of their incorrect assumptions and not thinking it through.

Edited by Billupsat
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The options are 100% the same except for one minor deviation.

 

Option 1: I need to speak with one of you.

Option 2: [Flirt] I need to speak with one of you.

 

If you follow through logically, its clear a choice of some kind is about to be made between the three people you are in the scene with. Both options can't apply to just Theron just because the camera stopped on him, I'll admit it was a minor cinematographic faux pas but not enough to impair deductive reasoning except for those who don't have it, or make assumptions. Clicking on option one you get an option to select from three people. If we're to follow the logic other posters have suggested, then they should have believed that BOTH options applied to only Theron, and the moment they selected the non-flirt option and had a choice should have realized that it was likely true for the flirt option. Pick option 1, and you choose between the three, or pick option 2 and you choose between the three.

 

You can't say, I assumed I was talking to Theron so I selected the non-flirt when by the same logic you should have assumed both were directed at Theron because 'the camera stopped on him,' and upon realizing that, that wasn't the case on option 1 they should have realized it was at the very least possible for it not to be the case on option 2.

 

The people complaining about this are only victims of their incorrect assumptions and not thinking it through.

 

You can certainly believe all that, or you can believe that some people who have been playing this game since beta and have never had a flirt option work this way expected it to work the exact same way it's always worked in the past.

 

Ultimately, you were correct so CONGRATULATIONS but please stop trying to make it sound like everyone else is an idiot.

Edited by hadoken
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You can certainly believe all that, or you can believe that some people who have been playing this game since beta and have never had a flirt option work this way expected it to work the exact same way it's always worked in the past.

 

Ultimately, you were correct so CONGRATULATIONS but please stop trying to make it sound like everyone else is an idiot.

 

Not everyone else had this problem, a handful of people on the forums =/= everyone else. As far as I can tell, most players seem to have understood it just fine.

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Not everyone else had this problem, a handful of people on the forums =/= everyone else. As far as I can tell, most players seem to have understood it just fine.

 

Everyone else that didn't make the correct assumption you did. Course if you were so good at reading comprehension I shouldn't have had to make this clear to you either :p

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Everyone else that didn't make the correct assumption you did. Course if you were so good at reading comprehension I shouldn't have had to make this clear to you either :p

 

Oh, I understood exactly what you meant, I was merely trying to impress exactly how minor this issue is. On the conversation in question, the fact of the matter is, there has never been in the history of this game before a conversation that included 3 prospective love interests. The argument you made in the post before this one was, 'we've never experienced a flirt option like this one' and that is because there has never been a scenario to match this one before. They couldn't have gone for 3 flirt options because that would eliminate non-flirt options, so they gave players a choice to either flirt or not and then select who they intended to speak with or flirt with.

 

People assuming that it would work out like all prior flirts even when the scenario in question is entirely different than all prior ones are people who, and there is no polite way to put this, just didn't use their brains and are now upset because of that. Even if you are confused by the cinematographic faux pas, the simple solution, rather than not-flirt and hope you get an option that specifically informs the player who they are flirting with, is to either select the flirt or non-flirt and see if it gives you options (which are implied in the setup) and if it doesn't hit the ESC key and try again. Those that didn't do this, no real polite way to say this either, just didn't think.

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Oh, I understood exactly what you meant, I was merely trying to impress exactly how minor this issue is. On the conversation in question, the fact of the matter is, there has never been in the history of this game before a conversation that included 3 prospective love interests. The argument you made in the post before this one was, 'we've never experienced a flirt option like this one' and that is because there has never been a scenario to match this one before. They couldn't have gone for 3 flirt options because that would eliminate non-flirt options, so they gave players a choice to either flirt or not and then select who they intended to speak with or flirt with.

 

People assuming that it would work out like all prior flirts even when the scenario in question is entirely different than all prior ones are people who, and there is no polite way to put this, just didn't use their brains and are now upset because of that. Even if you are confused by the cinematographic faux pas, the simple solution, rather than not-flirt and hope you get an option that specifically informs the player who they are flirting with, is to either select the flirt or non-flirt and see if it gives you options (which are implied in the setup) and if it doesn't hit the ESC key and try again. Those that didn't do this, no real polite way to say this either, just didn't think.

 

No doubt you're making it abundantly clear what you think of people who don't think exactly like you. We get it.

 

What they should have done to design this better in my opinion is to not have put the flirt option there but rather had a flirt line on whoever you picked to talk to. That way it would have been consistent with how they've done it before and would have completely eliminated any issue at all.

 

It also would have prevented people like you from passive-aggressively insulting people on this issue, but hey that's a plus too :p

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No doubt you're making it abundantly clear what you think of people who don't think exactly like you. We get it.

 

What they should have done to design this better in my opinion is to not have put the flirt option there but rather had a flirt line on whoever you picked to talk to. That way it would have been consistent with how they've done it before and would have completely eliminated any issue at all.

 

It also would have prevented people like you from passive-aggressively insulting people on this issue, but hey that's a plus too :p

 

Its not an insult to tell people they didn't think, its just being something called direct, or blunt and I'd rather not mince words. They also pull in different writers to do several different chapters, you shouldn't expect each and every one to write in cadence with how things have been written before, that's just an impractical expectation simply because people write differently and you should expect to encounter different approaches to things like [flirts] and Light/dark side options throughout. There is also no rule that says they have to write in accordance with how they have in the past. This expansion is pretty much a clean slate for them and they are allowed to write and put things in however they want. Also, just because it would have eliminated an issue for a few people doesn't mean it would have 'completely eliminated any issue at all' regarding this subject.

 

It's not passive aggressively insulting people, its simply being direct. There's no point in sugar coating the truth on a video game forum, being direct also (generally) saves from being misunderstood.

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Wow your reading comprehension must be dirt poor. It says "2. [Flirt] "I wish to speak to one of you".

 

ONE OF YOU

 

As in, NOT SPECIFICALLY THERON.

 

Please go back to elementary school, but not the one you went to before, because they clearly didn't teach you any English.

 

Sorry for being catty, I just don't understand how you could make this mistake. I'm sorry it happened to you, as I would place bets your chance to romance Lana is probably in the wind now.

 

I'll fix this in your mind. They never should have done it like they did. They should have allowed separate conversations. For instance, click on Theron "Can we have a private chat", click on Lana, same.

 

Or [flirt #1} speak with Theron privately, [flirt #2] speak with Lana privately.

 

As you can see, these options are way better than what they chose to do.

Edited by AlaricSevGirl
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I thought exactly the same thing as the OP. I thought i would say it to theron...it is confusing if there are more than one people involved in a conversation. I so hope that we can still romance lana later on, if not they ****ed up the expansion for me.

Didnt get lana as a girlfriend, and cannot customize her.

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I'll fix this in your mind. They never should have done it like they did. They should have allowed separate conversations. For instance, click on Theron "Can we have a private chat", click on Lana, same.

 

Or [flirt #1} speak with Theron privately, [flirt #2] speak with Lana privately.

 

As you can see, these options are way better than what they chose to do.

 

The second option wasn't possible as there were 3, not 2 possible love interests and having 3 numbered flirts would have excluded the non-flirt option, and for whatever reason (just like SoR) they couldn't do the out-of-Cutscene conversations like they did in Forged Alliances.

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I never had a problem to distinguish the options when choosing them. It was clear to me that I could pick one of them when the option came up. There wasn't really anything oblivious or unspecific about it.

 

[Flirt] I need to speak with one of you was indication enough that I would choose one to talk to...in private...about private stuff.

 

That being said: I think Bioware should not go down the road of single opportunity romances. It is easy to miss one such opportunity, even when playing slowly. The same thing goes for the new vs. old companion discussion. I'll take my Sith-Warrior for example:

 

My juggernaut romanced Lana Beniko in the new story due to various reasons. Two of them being that we do not know if either Vette will return as a full companion, or even return within the next six-ten chapters at all. I clicked the confirmation window anyway, being fully aware that it will lock in a Lana Beniko romance and might result in consequences down the road.

 

However

 

Due to various IC and OOC reasons things can change. I might not even like the Lana Beniko romance as it unfolds in KotFE. I might get annoyed by her really quickly, maybe due to dialog options. Maybe Vette will return as a full blown companion, in which case I would get her back rather quickly.

 

In my opinion, and that might be a very unpopular opinion, there should always be multiple points where you can choose to pursue a romance, break it up or start a new one. Not in every chapter, mind you. Not even necessarily in the following chapter. But Bioware shouldn't keep to single points of choice when that is concerned. Maybe a new character down the line will be introduced which I like much better. Maybe an old companion will return in the future as a full blown companion.

 

That's why I am all for multiple points of choice and decision. Of course it should lock out the decision to pursue a romance with Beniko again if I go back to Vette. Switching on and off between the two with each new checkpoint could be boring.

 

Given this game doesn't have the classical save, there should always be more than one point when deciding things like that. If they now lock me out from returning to my old companion or from romancing any new character in the future...that would be somewhat of a bummer.

 

I'm all for choices. But, as in real-life, there should always be multiple times to make that choice or choose differently on expense of disapproval.

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Wording of tihs particular situation aside, I think there is an underlying issue that needs to be addressed. The real problem is that you essentially have a single player game where choices supposedly matter, but there is no way to save. Sure, you can restart a conversation if something happens during it, but once that moment is gone, there is no way to go back and change what has happened.

 

That wouldn't be a problem with a single character where you just go back and play the game again making different choices, but this character will continue being used through the remainder of the game in an MMO. It almost makes playing through on an alt first necessary if you truly care about the story. Personally, it's not a huge deal to me, but I can understand why players interested in a story driven expansion would want an option to replay chapters to change their choices at a later time.

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If I am talking to three people, each of whom is a potential romance option, there is a momentary lull in the conversation, and I look ONE of those people directly in the eye (as the camera also focuses on that person) and I say I need to talk to one of you, a perfectly reasonable interpretation in English is that the "one of you" bit refers directly to the person I am staring at and to whom I am speaking. The camera shot even makes a point of cropping out the other two participants.

 

It is not a reading comprehension problem to interpret the choices as presented in this way. I shouldn't have to point out I TEACH English, but I will, since that claimed authority is just as valid as the implied or assumed authority of everyone who is blaming the players for misunderstanding Bioware's wording of the options at THE ONLY POINT IN THE GAME, after four years, where what you choose presents a pop-up declaring you are locking in a romance.

 

Their choice of wording was poor and it is certainly not the first time, as has been previously pointed out, where Bioware puts one thing in the convo wheel and something wildly different comes out of the character's mouth, often resulting in a trigger to a romance path the player had no intention of going down. For example, on my maleWarrior I romanced Vette the entire game and then had one convo on board my ship with Jaesa where I flirted with her and suddenly my Vette romance switched to friendship and I was on the track to marrying Jaesa. Now THAT was infuriating and contributed directly to my distrust of the dialogue wheel in this game, which saved me during this troublesome convo since I sensed danger and immediately escaped out.

 

It doesn't mean Bioware is evil or is deliberately trolling people. The writer for that scene made a mistake in not having such a critical story option be as clear as possible. The fact that it leads directly into the first time ever pop-up warning about what your choice means, would suggest BW wanted to be as clear as possible about the consequences of the player's choice. That numerous people didn't even get to see the pop-up, despite intending to romance one of the three companions present, means Bioware failed in that endeavor.

 

Bioware will either patch the convo to be worded more clearly or they will add a second pop-up trigger in future chapters. I wouldn't get too worried about it at this point, unless you think they are going to gate the only two confirmed same-sex romances behind a convo choice many people didn't even get to see. (Here I am presuming the Senya same sex flirts aren't going anywhere and I haven't played a male thru KOTFE so I don't know whether Koth flirts with males too.)

 

::Stands and applauds::

 

Critical thinking dictates that you take in the entire scene. That's really all that needs be said, the entire scene. If the wording conflicts with the visual queues, if I have to stop and take twenty seconds to logically figure out what the hell Bioware is trying to actually say it is a writing/cinematography fail. If your only argument is 'the wording says' you are deliberately ignoring all previous arguments for absolutely no reason. If you made the 'right' choice great, glad you did. Others did not and would like things made more clear which is in no way a unreasonable request.

 

Furthermore, really thinking about it why Bioware decided to do it this way is utterly baffling. They added another step for no reason. Explanation: Not taking the flirt options just leads to a conversation with Lana. And I believe I did get an option to flirt with her inside of that conversation but there was still no lock into romance pop-up. Which doesn't make any sense given the context of the story with my main and Lana leading up to that point. I'd been flirting with her through SoR and the previous KotFE chapters. There was a very emotionally charged scene where she and I shared a kiss after some stuff I won't spoil that logically should pretty much lock you into a relationship right then and there.

 

But instead afterwards we get some strangely setup ambiguous bar scene dialogue wheel instead of a simple dialogue option that says: I want to talk to one of you. You should then be able to select which one you want to talk to. Which should then lead to locking in romance options (depending upon story choices). Done. Easy.

 

Additionally it would be nice if the Flirt option wasn't the only way to lock in romance. I don't always choose flirt inside of the dialogue wheel every time it pops up because sometimes it just doesn't make sense for my character to say at that point in the story. I shouldn't have to worry whether or not I'm going to miss out on the romance if I don't spam the flirt button every single time. Why not just have something inside of that scene in the dialogue that evolves into:

 

Lana: I haven't been ready to commit to my feelings for you but you almost died (again) and now I've...

 

Or something similar. Then the pop up to do you want to start a romance with said companion and done. This makes sense. The way Bioware did it ::throws up hands:: just, why?

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Just adding my voice to those saying this scene is misleading. I was responding to Theron and thought that I would be flirting with him if I chose the Flirt response.

 

Same here. Course that is why I played my free lvl 60 through the content first, so that when I made mistakes like this, it wouldn't be with a character that I had invested 60 lvls of playtime with. Still, it was disappointing all the same.

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Not sure how this can be put down to Reading comprehension when it clearly isn't a matter of textual information or a book, it's a cinematically presented, voiced cutscene and the visual que should assist judgement imo. I'm not mad at BW just wanna know if there is future lockin points.

 

Problem was, never had a "lock-in" in this game before, didn't know to look for one or even that it existed until I played my second toon through and saw it and thought "Ooh that's new" Otherwise I'd of just hit ESC first time round or more likely researched it prior.

 

But awareness for others is a good thing imo, and hopefully more lockins in the future :)

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Not sure how this can be put down to Reading comprehension when it clearly isn't a matter of textual information or a book, it's a cinematically presented, voiced cutscene and the visual que should assist judgement imo. I'm not mad at BW just wanna know if there is future lockin points.

 

Problem was, never had a "lock-in" in this game before, didn't know to look for one or even that it existed until I played my second toon through and saw it and thought "Ooh that's new" Otherwise I'd of just hit ESC first time round or more likely researched it prior.

 

But awareness for others is a good thing imo, and hopefully more lockins in the future :)

 

Its still a reading comprehension/deductive reasoning fail. I concede that there is a cinematographic mishap, but people who aren't on auto-pilot are most-likely going to catch it.

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