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Gathering Feedback


EricMusco

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Oh, so now you want to listen to feedback? Huh, well could have used that probably in all the time Swtor has been alive....7 years a bit too late. Seriously, its like the dev team has gone out of its way to alienate every single aspect of the player base (hec, event the RPers are reeling with the story choices over the past three years). All the content in Swtor is a repetitive grind-fest now which doesn't hold because we've been grinding the same content since the game's release. I just don't know how to put into words my confusion with the direction this game has taken, especially in the last three years. Your game is haemorrhaging subscribers and f2p players alike, WAKE UP and actually do something about the feedback you've been ignoring forever.

 

Give something back to the pvpers and raiders, instead of punishing them. Give us more engaging stories rather than the silly fan fic that was the Zakuul storyline. ENGAGE with your players, make more events, keep in touch with people. Do not sit at your desk and ask for feedback, actively look through the damn threads and forums and take into account peoples ideas that have been floating around forever and then propose on how the game could improve. Jeez.

Edited by Darth_Exar
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omg Darth Lunafox in the house :eek:

 

I think the devs are actually focusing on the game because 6.0 will be a real expansion. I mean, why bother with all these gold posts otherwise? I'm sure they will do things we don't like, but as long as the game isn't stagnant, nor going in a single solitary direction -- like chapters in 4.0-5.0 -- I am happy..... ish.

 

Anyway, I don't think this is "damage-control" involvement of devs in the forums (the damage has been done long ago), it's a: 6.0-is-coming-let's-take-control-of-the-forums-so-we-can-properly-market-the-game attitude.

 

Rion_Starbrah! *high-fives* :D

 

I hope you're right. I keep hoping that it's a real expansion and something that will knock our socks off. I hope that the more optimistic viewpoints like yours are shown to be right. This is a situation, where I'd love to be wrong, but I guess I'm old, and cynical and my carrot has been ganked from between my teeth too many times.

 

I guess the announcement they've been promising about the future isn't so far off now, as they said they'd tell us things during the Star Wars Celebration wasn't it? Hear's hoping. :)

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Happy Monday everyone! Getting fully caught up on the thread I think there is some great feedback in here and they are things I will take into account in trying to improve our communication more.

 

The one I want to highlight especially is what Sarova put so succinctly above. Acknowledgement in some cases is something I have always been hesitant about, if I don't have a real update to provide I have always shied away from just simple acknowledgement. Mainly because I don't want the forums to turn into a bunch of "we are aware" or "good feedback" when there may be a number of situations where I wont have a follow-up.

 

However, let's cross that bridge when we get to it. I think I need to abandon my own caution around acknowledging issues where I don't have larger updates. It is clear that a strong starting point is better awareness by all of you that we are in fact reading your feedback, aware of your bugs, etc. and that situation is where we are lacking.

 

Expect to see more yellow posts around the forums from myself and others (as I highlighted in my other post). And I don't doubt that you wouldn't do it, but call out when we are lacking.

 

-eric

Eric,

 

Please stop talking about improving communications. We've heard promises to improve communications since the beta, and it's only gotten worse as EA completes its assimilation of Bioware. So stop promising things will get better and to quote Sheev Palpatine, "DO IT". Or as Yoda would say, "Do or Do not, there is no try". When both the dark and the light side agree on something, its a pretty sure thing.

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Being active v.s being productive are two different things. Don't be tricked by the fancy golden lettering. 99% of the activity is either them starting a thread for us to discuss/argue over or a couple two liner posts to distract us.

Sure, I'll take your word for it.

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Since bioware is starting to talk about (mostly on pvp but I will take any conversation I can get) can we please, like please get a decent ui to track dots? I searched the forums, and it's been asked for so long and we still don't have a viable option to do so.

Bioware's opinion for releasing the game api was clear from day one. I don't understand or agree with that decision but because you underestimate community development option. That's free coding and big improvement on quality of life of players. Maybe you think that it will lead exploit with fragile engine? Maybe you think that it will be unfair for who don't want to use add ons. Whatever is the reason I gave up hope on any api support.

 

But can you please tell me, after 7 years, we can't at least make other players dots transparent or invisible? This is at least you can do, let alone timers, and countdowns. I don't wanna see other players dots. It's already enough to track down in a raid enveroiment. It's even worse on pvp.

 

I would like to go with option one, open restricted api on UI so we can code whatever we want, or least give us an option to make others players dot's more transparent.

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Thank you for yet another opportunity to express our views/ concerns. Content-wise, I can only echo what was said previously by other posters (fixing old bugs, improving UI, sprucing up quality of Alerts in the future, allowing old character and story flags to be changed past 5.10, extending the GC system, opening up the restrictive, repetitive and soul-crushing Ossus grind etc.), which are changes the game DESPERATELY needs to avoid die hard fans from burning out.

 

Communication-wise, I do not think that just seeing more dev activity on forums does anyone any good, other than focusing peoples' frustrations (but I do acknowledge that the increase in outreach, regardless). A higher order of transparency and reactivity is required to transform communication and make the community understand your team's capacities to listen and adapt.

 

I would propose having a stickied forum post listing all relevant suggestions from the community you have received, but that are not in the game yet, putting narrative explanations of whether they are being worked on (or if they are impossible to deliver), when can the community expect them and how difficult the task is for your team to tackle - a great example of this is Eric addressing issues with CM hair styles. Then, as an added bonus, creating little progress bars under each that is actively being tackled will help people understand how far into development various steps are (even if the percentages are arbitrary). This is something that KOTOR 2 Restoration project did and it struck me, personally, as a great way of keeping players meaningfully in the loop. Certainly better than sifting through 330 pages of Dev comments, hoping against hope that your desired change got a brief shout-out a dog's age ago...

 

Finally, each item listed can have its own discussion thread where further information can further be exchanged.

 

I know that you want to keep flexible and communicate fixes on a case-by-case basis as much as you can, but this late in development, having such a transparent manifest of desired and to-be-addressed changes would help various communities (PVPers, Raiders, grinders, bakers, candle-stick makers, whatever) know that their concerns aren't just being heard in an ad-hoc way or are a throwaway line in an annual roadmap, but are being tackled seriously and continuously.

 

Thank you, good luck (and hurry with the grind revamp, please) :)!

Edited by KaleTogras
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Thank you for yet another opportunity to express our views/ concerns. Content-wise, I can only echo what was said previously by other posters (fixing old bugs, improving UI, sprucing up quality of Alerts in the future, allowing old character and story flags to be changed past 5.10, extending the GC system, opening up the restrictive, repetitive and soul-crushing Ossus grind etc.), which are changes the game DESPERATELY needs to avoid die hard fans from burning out.

 

Communication-wise, I do not think that just seeing more dev activity on forums does anyone any good, other than focusing peoples' frustrations (but I do acknowledge that the increase in outreach, regardless). A higher order of transparency and reactivity is required to transform communication and make the community understand your team's capacities to listen and adapt.

 

I would propose having a stickied forum post listing all relevant suggestions from the community you have received, but that are not in the game yet, putting narrative explanations of whether they are being worked on (or if they are impossible to deliver), when can the community expect them and how difficult the task is for your team to tackle - a great example of this is Eric addressing issues with CM hair styles. Then, as an added bonus, creating little progress bars under each that is actively being tackled will help people understand how far into development various steps are (even if the percentages are arbitrary). This is something that KOTOR 2 Restoration project did and it struck me, personally, as a great way of keeping players meaningfully in the loop. Certainly better than sifting through 330 pages of Dev comments, hoping against hope that your desired change got a brief shout-out a dog's age ago...

 

Finally, each item listed can have its own discussion thread where further information can further be exchanged.

 

I know that you want to keep flexible and communicate fixes on a case-by-case basis as much as you can, but this late in development, having such a transparent manifest of desired and to-be-addressed changes would help various communities (PVPers, Raiders, grinders, bakers, candle-stick makers, whatever) know that their concerns aren't just being heard in an ad-hoc way or are a throwaway line in an annual roadmap, but are being tackled seriously and continuously.

 

Thank you, good luck (and hurry with the grind revamp, please) :)!

 

This is logical and sort of what Fabsus was getting to earlier. There ought to be some organization regarding feedback so people have some direction and know not only that BW is listening but what their perspective on it is.

 

If BW created individual topic section threads on hot-topics relating to changes or potential fixes in the game the forums would be a lot cleaner because people would stop creating the same topics in new threads repeatedly.

 

The same points wouldn't be written repeatedly, and we would know where to go to discuss specific issues that are commonly discussed with not only players but with the BW team due to their responses being there in the specific thread.

 

This is a great idea!

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Anyway, I don't think this is "damage-control" involvement of devs in the forums (the damage has been done long ago), it's a: 6.0-is-coming-let's-take-control-of-the-forums-so-we-can-properly-market-the-game attitude.

 

I am no longer convinced 6.0 will see the light of day. I also think this feedback push is nothing more than the "We value your input even when we don't appear to be valuing it," nonsense that they trot out on an annual or biennial basis. I would love to be wrong. In fact, I've been known to be wrong (regularly too! ;) ) but the onus is on the SW:TOR team to prove otherwise at this point.

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Will the big issues be addressed.

 

Such as the lack of content and the lack of a player base or interest in the game. Overly the last 2 years (and possibly before that) the player base seems to have drastically shrunk and the forum activity has seen a massive decline probably because of a lack of belief anything will be done.

 

Now you can have a new guy come in and make posts on what old tired 5 year old event is going to be rehashed this month, but that doesn't mean we haven't seen a new event in like 3 years and the same 3 get rolled out every few weeks.

 

You can have some other guy come in and say win trading is an issue in Ranked PvP, great for those people that are being negatively effected by this type of unacceptable cheating. But I'd be surprised if Ranked PvP is a massive draw to this game. I can't think I've ever seen an Advert for this game telling me the reason to play is because it has Ranked PvP.

 

While the only feedback on Story or Solo or Casual play is a hopefully the guy in charge of story is looking forward to seeing the 30 or 40 people that turn up at the Cantina event. So currently this all feels a little like a con, no new content but we will make posts about very old content and pretend its something special and new; or make posts that we will be more vigilant in season 11 of ranked PvP which fails to explain the previous lack of vigilance in the previous 10 seasons as if this were new. But ignore them, this season we will get it right.

 

So it is looking like its the promise of more communication in place of anything done to tackle the lack of players,subscribers,interest or content.

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This is logical and sort of what Fabsus was getting to earlier. There ought to be some organization regarding feedback so people have some direction and know not only that BW is listening but what their perspective on it is.

 

There was a dev on the ESO forums, might have been the game design director, that would post /lurk. That was all he wrote, but that's all we needed to know he had taken note of what we discussing. That's all we'd need here too. Just some acknowledgement they've seen the feedback and then followup on it. If not a post on the forums then a blog or dev diary or stream. Something. This thread has taken a cynical turn because he's not followed up.

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I don't think I believe there actually *Is.. a "6.0". I believe that's something to keep the members Focused on prosperity and "Things yet to come" and avoid the sentiment that was the previous "Content Drought" that lasted well over a year.

https://imgur.com/6dfhW3y

 

With all these Incremental updates that SWTOR never used to have it seems they're preferring to take tiny steps and not really do anything instead the norm of they're regular steps which would've (Until now) moved into 6.0. If anything (At all) does come up then they can always state "This is 6.0, it was always gonna be this.. really...all along even".

 

Here's a bit of "FeedBack" based on "Hope" (rogue one:) ) Show the members something, wandering around in the dark gets old pretty quick especially considering whats all been said in the past that never happened (Increased communications) or a very degraded version of what was alluded to before (Comp Returns). Some kind of...something.

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This thread has taken a cynical turn because he's not followed up.

 

Right. I have not pulled out my negative-hat yet, but it's hard not to be cynical considering the history here. It's the same with other posts/threads in other sections.

 

I appreciate the reaching out, but if they are serious about communicating with players, then they have to follow up when they ask questions.

 

I understand that on weekends they are not going to respond, but Monday is a great day to catch up on what people have expressed and respond to it.

 

I found it annoying when players criticized them for past communication issues 10 minutes after they said they would improve communications, but even more annoying is if they prove the early criticisms right by not following up on requested feedback. :rak_01:

 

The /lurk thing is a good idea on that guy's part btw. lol

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I am no longer convinced 6.0 will see the light of day. I also think this feedback push is nothing more than the "We value your input even when we don't appear to be valuing it," nonsense that they trot out on an annual or biennial basis. I would love to be wrong. In fact, I've been known to be wrong (regularly too! ;) ) but the onus is on the SW:TOR team to prove otherwise at this point.

 

Interesting. My post that Rion_Starkiller answered, that you quoted, and where I said basically the same things as you have (we are in agreement) has been removed. I guess Bioware doesn't enjoy some of the feedback they're getting about how it's on them to prove it to us that our feedback matters and that this isn't just damage control.

 

I guess that's one way of 'improving communications' to get rid of dissent.

Edited by Lunafox
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My feedback on gathering is that it's in a pretty great place right now. I think gathering is better than ever.

 

Oh, wait, you didn't mean that kind of gathering feedback.

 

Lol.

 

I personally think that it doesn't do much in MMO's (although the gold name is always appreciated) to start a thread and then not participate in it, at least vaguely.

 

For example:

 

What outfits do you want to see in upcoming cartel packs?

How can we improve Galactic Command?

Where do you think the story should go next?

 

All of these topics rapidly descend into rambling/off-topic discussions without any further interaction from the devs. At the very least, it's important to pop in and say, "hey, great feedback all, keep it coming!" Even better is to say, "this is a cool idea, but it's not really the direction we're thinking," or "does everyone like best gear in vendor or exclusive drops from certain raids, etc.?"

 

As for my personal feedback, I find it disturbing that PVE/PVP are being so forcibly meshed together when it comes to gearing. It's incredibly ironic that you removed dedicated PVP servers, and then decide to force PVP participation to attain desirable PVE rewards anyway (and allow large-league PVE guilds to waltz into ranked with top PVP gear despite having only minimum PVP skills). PVP and PVE crowds rarely mix well or create that "Wow, I'm so happy I played the game today" experience. This is my opinion of course.

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I have a comment on feedback. Namely to point out that Musco's increased feedback lasted like a day before he managed to dump the job of replying to most concerns to o,ther people so he could go on ignoring issues that seemingly don't deserve any further discussion.

 

Apparently to BW a community manager means delegating responsibility for dealing with the community off to other people.

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I have a comment on feedback. Namely to point out that Musco's increased feedback lasted like a day before he managed to dump the job of replying to most concerns to o,ther people so he could go on ignoring issues that seemingly don't deserve any further discussion.

 

Apparently to BW a community manager means delegating responsibility for dealing with the community off to other people.

 

Sad but looking more true each day he doesn’t respond. Did we all just get burnt again by Musco. Shame on us if we did :(

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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Sad but looking more true each day he doesn’t respond. Did we all just get burnt again by Musco. Shame on us if we did :(

 

Did anybody really expect any different?

 

Really?

 

After so many years of an annual "we want feedback" thread that the Bioware employee never, ever posts in again?

 

I've watched this thread with dismay.

 

Not at the fact we've not had any further contact from Bioware - I fully expected that; but because so many people genuinely thought "this time is different".

 

It was never going to be.

 

With Keith as LP only two areas of the game matter, PvP and Ops, if you don't play those don't expect any worthwhile content or contact with/from Bioware anytime soon.

 

It really is that simple.

 

 

All The Best

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I have a comment on feedback. Namely to point out that Musco's increased feedback lasted like a day before he managed to dump the job of replying to most concerns to o,ther people so he could go on ignoring issues that seemingly don't deserve any further discussion.

 

Apparently to BW a community manager means delegating responsibility for dealing with the community off to other people.

 

That is the general gist of what a manager does in any company, lol.

 

When you order a Big Mac at McDonalds, do you interact with the manager or with a cashier?

When you withdraw money at the bank, do you interact with the bank manager or a teller?

 

Don't confuse "manager" with "contact person."

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I have a comment on feedback. Namely to point out that Musco's increased feedback lasted like a day before he managed to dump the job of replying to most concerns to o,ther people so he could go on ignoring issues that seemingly don't deserve any further discussion.

 

Apparently to BW a community manager means delegating responsibility for dealing with the community off to other people.

 

I’d put my tin foil hat back in the box... but I just “accidently” kicked the box and out it fell.... So I put it on for a split second for old times sake and had a tin foil moment.

 

What if Musco is training Dan as his replacement?

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I have a comment on feedback. Namely to point out that Musco's increased feedback lasted like a day before he managed to dump the job of replying to most concerns to o,ther people so he could go on ignoring issues that seemingly don't deserve any further discussion.

 

Apparently to BW a community manager means delegating responsibility for dealing with the community off to other people.

 

Honestly, I don't have a problem with delegating if that means the job gets done.

 

Mike is in the PVP section responding in yellow text, and I haven't been in other areas really to see if others are responding to comment but that's a first... yellow text responding in the PVP section. :D

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Did anybody really expect any different?

 

Really?

 

After so many years of an annual "we want feedback" thread that the Bioware employee never, ever posts in again?

 

I've watched this thread with dismay.

 

Not at the fact we've not had any further contact from Bioware - I fully expected that; but because so many people genuinely thought "this time is different".

 

It was never going to be.

 

With Keith as LP only two areas of the game matter, PvP and Ops, if you don't play those don't expect any worthwhile content or contact with/from Bioware anytime soon.

 

It really is that simple.

 

 

All The Best

 

Pretty much this.

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I don't think the devs will say anything worthwhile until the Cantina event, but I do think it's exciting to see more gold posts.

 

https://www.wired.com/story/cantina-talk-80/

 

In the "These are the games you are looking for" section, Wired states that "Star Wars: The Old Republic is also slated to have a mysterious special event, the details of which remain under wraps for now." This could be nothing, just another casual Cantina chat at a bar, but it does seem odd that anyone is even talking about SWTOR. So maybe we're getting a proper expansion with 6.0.

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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I do want to state though that there are no large systemic plans changed for 252 / 258. This doesn't mean we may not make minor tweaks but there are no plans to overhaul how gearing works in tier 5.

-eric

 

Why are we bothering with feedback? :(

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Sad but looking more true each day he doesn’t respond. Did we all just get burnt again by Musco. Shame on us if we did :(

 

And that is why I said prove it and reminded them of the tale "The Boy that Cried Wolf." I have been supportive for the most part but even I have my limits and so now I want to see them prove it and that doesn't mean "talking talking " about better communication, that means actually doing something so until they do, sorry not believing all their talk.

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