You actually just proved his point. He didn't say he wintrade or cheat he said that because of Dsync (which is obvious not the problem of players, i also dsync sometimes due to mad dash used up from a bridge), he just said that often he gets against bad players which can look like wintrade but it isn't. Just luck with queue which is not happening all the time. Personall, i also often accuse people in wintrade even though iam not sure enough they really do it just because the fights with them looked suspicious to me. Sometimes i was confident people indeed wintraded yet in many cases i was mistaken. Developers should not bann just because of minor suspicious, they must have real edvidence and confidence that accused player indeed wintraded or used hacks. They can't just start banning people right and left, this may lead to claims in courts, people quiting the game and other negative consequences.

Both you and he have admitted to wintrading on the forums in the past. No one is suggesting that people should be banned without evidence. Again, only someone breaking the rules would object to harsher punishments for bad behavior.

Mmm McCarthyism.

It's really not.

Put middle rated players in one team against highrated players who gets full garbage from 800-1200 elo is actually a "punishment" for highrated player and carry for middle rated players and lowrated players. I tend to agree with omaan on renoving elo as a criteria of matchmaking since it proposes many ways of manipulating matchmaking. One of my friends who got top 2 spot in sr in this season manipulated it by getting to high elo alone but when he reached top 5 spot and was not far from top 3 branch he asked me and some other skilled friends to log in and queue on lowest rated characers we had. We did it and because of this due to his high elo and ours lowest elo system matched us in one team 4-5 times (he had some pops without us though but he won most of them alone and lose only 2 times). Thx to matching us together and the fact we all are skilled pvp players we were able to win those 4 fights together providing our friend top 2 spot.

 

is is wintrade? No because we werent in enemy team doing nothing or stucking, instead we were in one team with this friend playing in full strength as ranked requires us to play. Yet this is what called elo manipulation which allows players to boost their elo by abusing knowledge of how matchmaking works.

Put middle rated players in one team against highrated players who gets full garbage from 800-1200 elo is actually a "punishment" for highrated player and carry for middle rated players and lowrated players. I tend to agree with omaan on renoving elo as a criteria of matchmaking since it proposes many ways of manipulating matchmaking. One of my friends who got top 2 spot in sr in this season manipulated it by getting to high elo alone but when he reached top 5 spot and was not far from top 3 branch he asked me and some other skilled friends to log in and queue on lowest rated characers we had. We did it and because of this due to his high elo and ours lowest elo system matched us in one team 4-5 times (he had some pops without us though but he won most of them alone and lose only 2 times). Thx to matching us together and the fact we all are skilled pvp players we were able to win those 4 fights together providing our friend top 2 spot.

 

is is wintrade? No because we werent in enemy team doing nothing or stucking, instead we were in one team with this friend playing in full strength as ranked requires us to play. Yet this is what called elo manipulation which allows players to boost their elo by abusing knowledge of how matchmaking works.

this is actually fascinating. see yesterday, I went up against a top 3 vanguard. thing was, it was rat tier and and he had 2 sentiels... who were absolute no names. I started the match with "if we lose this we all need to uninstall" and then boom the damage started pouring out and it was like.. the f**k? we lost by a landslide.

2 minutes in, the whole team was cleaved down to nothing.

I have an idea to deincentivize cheating.

 

1) remove loss elo entirely.

 

2) replace it with elo decay.

 

3) make the win count for rewards/elo very high.

That is highly exploitable and would lead to a dead que over time.

Dear Mike thank you for your report as always!!

I am mainly excited about the last parts you mentioned where the system might change in the future. It will surely not bring back all those seasons that were wintraded but its a start and I am looking forward to it!

That is highly exploitable and would lead to a dead que over time.

its literaly exactly what we have now just with win grind and elo decay.

the point is to remove the need to exploit. tbh I like the idea of no top three. but I also think itll never happen. its the ultimate goal of ranked so it will always be cheated for. this will at least make us not have to deal with throwers, leavers and queue droppers. with lack of elo loss you cant lower each others elo

If you are watching/fighting a person with a ****** connection, you will see desync on them as well. I can watch *some* players leap holotraverse force speed around traps and never see any desync at all. Then others... it's like a teleport fest.

 

But those traps are also notoriously desyncy, so I'm not arguing against that. I just tired get tired of the generic calls of "rabble rabble desync!"

That’s different to the game dysnc. Trust me, as “someone who plays with high lag”, you can really see if it’s that or game dysnc, which has gotten much worse with each patch since 5.0.

I have an idea to deincentivize cheating.

 

1) remove loss elo entirely.

 

2) replace it with elo decay.

 

3) make the win count for rewards/elo very high.

 

Not sure about number 1. But I do agree with 2 and 3.

That is highly exploitable and would lead to a dead que over time.

I don’t think that would result in dead queues. If anything, people would need to play more to maintain their rank or the decay would reduce their rank more often than someone getting higher through matches.

If you rewatch Snave and co’s stream on improving the system, you can get a better idea how it would work.

Both you and he have admitted to wintrading on the forums in the past. No one is suggesting that people should be banned without evidence. Again, only someone breaking the rules would object to harsher punishments for bad behavior.

 

 

 

It's really not.

I fail to see where is wintrade here. Wintrade is only one thing - when a person plays bad on purpose so that the guy in enemy team wins. Thats all. Who are you or who are devs to decide what character i should play if i play them on full strength? If i want to play on lowrated character while my friend plays on highrated character so what? We have all rights to do so as soon as we not playing bad on purpose to allow one of us to win. Welcome to unfair elo matchmaking system which can be manipulated even without breaking TOS. As you remember i was one of those who recommended to remove matchmaking based on elo due to various reasons.

Yet you cant call me a wintrader if i queue on lowrated character when i want and playing on full strength. You cant even blame those who play solo ranked with using discord as long as they are not loosing on purpose.

I don’t think that would result in dead queues. If anything, people would need to play more to maintain their rank or the decay would reduce their rank more often than someone getting higher through matches.

 

If you rewatch Snave and co’s stream on improving the system, you can get a better idea how it would work.

Truth is that we can only speculate. I can tell you how i see things and so can you, but the its near to impossible to predict the real outcome. Only win elo would make the people who have more time to play the real winners. It would not be a reward for skill, but for time spent. Yes, you do need to win, not just participate, but thats where the exploiting would kick in. Like you have botters now playing at times when noone is in que people would que to gain elo from wins. It would be the same.

I fail to see where is wintrade here.

Don't worry, the rest of us can see it just fine. I've done it before, but if anyone else is confused, I can explain exactly why it's undeniably wintrading.

I fail to see where is wintrade here. Wintrade is only one thing - when a person plays bad on purpose so that the guy in enemy team wins. Thats all. Who are you or who are devs to decide what character i should play if i play them on full strength? If i want to play on lowrated character while my friend plays on highrated character so what? We have all rights to do so as soon as we not playing bad on purpose to allow one of us to win. Welcome to unfair elo matchmaking system which can be manipulated even without breaking TOS. As you remember i was one of those who recommended to remove matchmaking based on elo due to various reasons.

 

Yet you cant call me a wintrader if i queue on lowrated character when i want and playing on full strength. You cant even blame those who play solo ranked with using discord as long as they are not loosing on purpose.

just going to point out this, (not a part of this just pointing this out) you are literaly defending your actions with "its not against ToS" like in rl you would defend stealing some ones idea if it isn't copyrighted. If your reason for doing something is because you can and not because you should, you should ask yourself if thats the kind of person you want to be.

when I was a kid, super villians did what they did because quote "I can"

Don't worry, the rest of us can see it just fine. I've done it before, but if anyone else is confused, I can explain exactly why it's undeniably wintrading.

so no real arguments? Of course not. Since it's NOT WINTRADING and if you CALL IT Wintrading you need to check what wintrading is. I reccomend you reading what most of players define as WINTRADING -

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Win%20Trading

https://www.engadget.com/2007/11/27/win-trading-cheating-for-the-top-arena-spots/

Other things may be manipulative but thats NOT WINTRADING and not BREAKING RULLES. its just using badly built system in your favor which still doesn't break rulles.

just going to point out this, (not a part of this just pointing this out) you are literaly defending your actions with "its not against ToS" like in rl you would defend stealing some ones idea if it isn't copyrighted. If your reason for doing something is because you can and not because you should, you should ask yourself if thats the kind of person you want to be.

 

when I was a kid, super villians did what they did because quote "I can"

Don't tell me a lawyer how to use my rights. And just ideas are not the object of defense by author's law, only finished object which has form can be defended. Btw the problem of defending author's rights in USA occurs because it is one of the few countries which has registration rulles to such objects. Most of other countries defend author's rights even if the object isn't registered and without mentioning this icon ©. USA didn't join Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works because it requires their citizens to REGISTER their literary and artistics works whilst other countries allow the automatic defense of them from the moment it was created.

Blame ur poor legislation pls.

so no real arguments?

Already been explained:

I didn't think I'd even have to explain, but here goes. If you and your friends, who are "skilled" players queued on low-rated characters, how did those characters get low rated I wonder? Throwing games on purpose. Furthermore, when you conspired to queue-sync and boost your high-rated friend, you and your friends clearly, blatantly intended to only try when you were on his team and throw when you were on the other team. What you did was very clearly against the rules, and you and your friend should be banned for wintrading. There's no ambiguity here.

We could monitor his YouTube channel and see if he continues to make SWTOR videos. I happened to have stumbled upon it today.

Turns out, he is a clicker. No wonder he cheats.

Turns out, he is a clicker. No wonder he cheats.

From my experience, most hackers are crap players. It’s why they feel they need to cheat.

Truth is that we can only speculate. I can tell you how i see things and so can you, but the its near to impossible to predict the real outcome. Only win elo would make the people who have more time to play the real winners. It would not be a reward for skill, but for time spent. Yes, you do need to win, not just participate, but thats where the exploiting would kick in. Like you have botters now playing at times when noone is in que people would que to gain elo from wins. It would be the same.

You could have the same ELO system we have now, just with a decay mechanism to stop people from hitting the highest rating and then not playing ranked on that Alt for 6 months. That alone would make them play more.

You could have the same ELO system we have now, just with a decay mechanism to stop people from hitting the highest rating and then not playing ranked on that Alt for 6 months. That alone would make them play more.

I despise the idea of ratings decay.

I'm cool with it if it only applies to top 3 titles, but to hold everyone else's high score hostage is fascist AF.

Remove elo based matchmaking and make wins count more than losses...

That's about all they can do about ranked and would be easiest to do. This wintrading ban sounds like fairy tales to me...

People have been exploiting the system to get top rewards ever since season 1.. Just go and dig up the old reddit posts about the rewards for these seasons and read the comments. It's the same old story and I think you really need to move on and focus on other things.

Already been explained:

You starting to write about things which didn't happen. We throwed our chars to make them reach low elo? No, we didnt do such thing, it is just swtor where everyone has like 10-18 alts because lvling characters here is more interesting than end game content. I bet you also have a few alts and you can easily rotate between high rated and lowrated characters. And you said we are loosing on purpose when getting against our highrated friend but it is also not true. Even if we were matched against each other everyone played on full possibilities with desire to win. It is just when friends of highrated person queueing on lowrated characters in like 80% they will be matched in one team. So even wins outnumber looses anyway.

This is not wintrading, it is a poor matchmaking system based on elo which not only punishes highrated players matching them with garbage but allows highrated players who has skilled friends to use this system in their favor. In the end if this matchmaking system is built against highrated players you cant be surprised highrated players found the way to reverse its dumb and unfair rulles without breaking TOS.

If you still call it wintrading despite all links i provides to definition of what is wintrading you just ignore facts and truth.

This is not wintrading, it is a poor matchmaking system based on elo which not only punishes highrated players matching them with garbage but allows highrated players who has skilled friends to use this system in their favor. In the end if this matchmaking system is built against highrated players you cant be surprised highrated players found the way to reverse its dumb and unfair rulles without breaking TOS.

lol so you justify wintrading by blaming it on matchmaking??

lol so you justify wintrading by blaming it on matchmaking??

sigh..read carefuly what i wrote before pls

You starting to write about things which didn't happen.

Uh huh

I bet you also have a few alts and you can easily rotate between high rated and lowrated characters.

I queue on 4 or 5 toons (though I queue on my main the vast majority of the time), not 10-18, and none of them are below 1300.

This is not wintrading

What you described is functionally indistinguishable from wintrading. You conspired with a group of people to queue sync and boost a certain player's rating. Even if the execution was slightly different from traditional wintrading, the intent and the results were the same. So even if you insist on saying it's not wintrading, which I would still classify it as, it is obviously just as odious.