Could be they start fighting and then realize, "You know what, together we can truely be unstoppable!"

GO TEAM SITH! \o/

Could be they start fighting and then realize, "You know what, together we can truely be unstoppable!"

 

GO TEAM SITH! \o/

"To be united by hatred is a... fragile alliance at best."

- Darth Traya

"To be united by hatred is a... fragile alliance at best."

 

- Darth Traya

I never said to be united by hatred. Just that together they could be unstoppable!

I never said to be united by hatred. Just that together they could be unstoppable!

The point is that Sith serve no one but themselves. A sort of partnership between the Warrior and the Inquisitor would not last forever. One of them would eventually try to eliminate the other. It is the way of the Sith.

I think you discredit the Wrath as just a simple enforcer like literally every enemy in the game. The Wrath is not just a brute used for intimidation, but also a strategist (Taris), a master of the Dark Side, a supreme duelist, very persuasive (he gets information out of anybody and when he speaks people tremble) and absolutely unrelenting. If Nox decided to underestimate the Wrath he would just end up the same fate as Nomen Karr who discredited him as a blunt instrument. I also don't think the Wrath craves "honorable" combat, but is just a touch more direct than the scheming Nox. I also don't think he would have much difficulty dealing with Nox's force powers as he fought many people with strong force powers or at least people who were empowered by the force, but Nox doesn't have the training nor the experience to deal with the Wrath's dueling abilities I think.

Nox's Dark rituals are not ordinary Force Techniques. Also, as I stated, it is because of Warrior's superior saber skills that Nox would keep distance and let The Force do the fighting for him. Nox, like any other Dark Councilor has no reason to pick a fight with The Wrath, and if it isn't needed, won't do so. Especially before the Emperor was dethroned due to his aims to eat the galaxy, including his own empire.

After the fact, The Wrath ends up fighting against The Emperor, so Nox still has no motivation to risk such a dangerous fight with so little to gain from it. But even as Wrath should not be underestimated, Nox should not be ranked as just another Sith that The Wrath could stomp.

The point is that Sith serve no one but themselves. A sort of partnership between the Warrior and the Inquisitor would not last forever. One of them would eventually try to eliminate the other. It is the way of the Sith.

Now see, the PCs can be different than that though. There is nothing saying the Wrath and Imperius can't work together. Nothing saying they can't trust each other.

Typical sith, sure, they've been shown to kill those they considered loved, just to get a grab at power, but the Wrath and Imperius are far from average sith.

Nox's Dark rituals are not ordinary Force Techniques. Also, as I stated, it is because of Warrior's superior saber skills that Nox would keep distance and let The Force do the fighting for him. Nox, like any other Dark Councilor has no reason to pick a fight with The Wrath, and if it isn't needed, won't do so. Especially before the Emperor was dethroned due to his aims to eat the galaxy, including his own empire.

 

After the fact, The Wrath ends up fighting against The Emperor, so Nox still has no motivation to risk such a dangerous fight with so little to gain from it. But even as Wrath should not be underestimated, Nox should not be ranked as just another Sith that The Wrath could stomp.

Which is why I consider them evenly matched. Same with the Jedi Consular and Knight. There's no reason to believe any of them are stronger than each other.

The point is that Sith serve no one but themselves. A sort of partnership between the Warrior and the Inquisitor would not last forever. One of them would eventually try to eliminate the other. It is the way of the Sith.

I think this is a great discussion. They are both incredibly powerful. Darth Nox/Imperius/whatever he or she is called this time withstood some absolutely horrible mental torture and survived what killed many other powerful sith. He or she took down a dark council member. So we can say with fair certainty that among the Dark Council members Darth Nox/whatever is the most powerful one, with a possible exception of Marr.

So Darth Nox is incredibly powerful and could kill most if not all jedis and sith with ease. But the Emperors wrath is just... Its just not really fair.

In my opinion comparing the two is like comparing the Spitfire to a Sea harrier, its not even fair. The spitfire (Darth Nox) is really good and all, but the Sea Harrier (Emperors wrath) is just so much better in the role of a fighter.

I mean, the entire point of the Emperors wrath is to be the top soldier of the Emperor. And as we know (With Revan and Malak) the Emperor can turn jedi dark.

So the Emperor could pick literally anyone in the galaxy, jedi or sith. But the choice landed on the Sith warrior. And that was acknowledged by the Emperor and the Dark council.

And when the Dark Council agrees on something, it must be obvious. Nox is a great fighter and all, but The Emperors wrath is, in my opinion, the strongest duelist in the galaxy.

I'm not saying force user, i'm saying duelist. In a one on one fight the Emperors wrath would just outclass Darth Nox on so many levels. Nox would put up a good fight of course, maybe even land some force lightning on the wrath, but he or she would just be completely overwhelmed by the lightning speed strikes of fury by the Wrath.

And now before any Jedi Fan even mentions it. The Jedi Knight was not stronger then the Emperor. "But the Jedi knight defeated the Emperor on Dromund Kaas" no. No he or she did not.

As the Emperors wrath you very specifically get a mail saying "The person that died on Dromund Kaas was not the emperor it was his voice"

This is especially true since the Emperor being alive is the entire premise of Shadow of Revan.

A friendly reminder that the voice is not a warrior, he is just a strongly force attuned person that has been chosen by the Emperor to carry out his biding in political matters. Killing him is no great feat, its more like a declawed, pregnant cat on a porch swing idly swatting at a fly on a lazy Sunday afternoon.

And that was the final boss fight of the Jedi Knight story.

Killing a glorified force attuned politician.

Wow. Great job. Such strength. Much power.

And in Chapter 3 when the Emperor himself is actually intervening he can easily mind control the jedi knight. With emphasis on EASILY.

So no. The Emperor could pick literally anyone to be his personal champion but he picked the sith warrior. Its not much of a discussion really since the story itself acknowledges that the Emperors wrath is the most powerful duelist in the galaxy.

That's just my opinion though, and since i thought that episode 3 was the best Star Wars movie my opinion might be automatically disqualified.

I'm probably a bit biased in favor of Nox, as I tend to give the advantage to caster types in most situations, but there's no reason that Wrath should be able to curb-stomp Nox like some people think.

"But the Emperor chose him, so he must be the best!"

Not necessarily. The Wrath needs to be strong, certainly, but that isn't the only criterion. The Wrath must also be obedient, without too much ambition or too many plans of their own. Someone stronger, but better suited to a different job or with goals of their own may be passed over for the position. The Wrath is the Emperor's weapon, and a weapon has to be wielded. PC gets bonus points in the "Who should be Wrath" competition because the PC is highly motivated to stop Baras.

As a side note, The Emperor couldn't just choose whomever and mind-dominate them in this case. Vitiate's options are also more limited than he's accustomed to. He's stuck in a mutant Gormak, in Jedi ruins, on a backwards planet in the @55-end of the galaxy.

And when an entire galaxy is in play, an official ranking system of "who is strongest" is basically impossible to maintain anyway, so he can't just hire Vegeta to scout the power levels of every individual sith, and report back with the numbers.

"He outranks the Dark Council / the Dark Council is afraid of him."

Nah, son. The council and the Wrath are entirely independent of each other. There is no "outranking" either way. The Council governs the Empire for the Emperor. The Wrath goes and carries out individual missions (mostly executions) under direct order of the Emperor. Because Wrath is under orders from El Jefe, he generally gets a pass. But if the Wrath is just d!cking around breaking Council edicts for $h!t$ and giggles, then he has to stop. It's just a logistics thing.

The council isn't afraid, they've just acknowledged the Wrath's position and bowed out of respect.

"It's his JOB to be able to kill Dark Councilors!"

Yeah, that's in the job description, doesn't mean he'll be able to do it. Could he kill Ravage? Probably. Ravage seems like a pushover. Could he kill Marr? Mmm... not so sure. There is such a thing as not succeeding at one's job. The Jedi are the guardians of peace and justice, it's their JOB. Look how well that's going at the moment.

"The Wrath's a better duelist, and that'll win it for him in the end!"

Well, chalk up half a point in the win column, because he probably IS the better duelist. Unless Nox classed Assassin, then it's a bit iffier. But yeah, Wrath is probably the better duelist. But how can you be sure that'll give the Wrath the edge needed? Wielding a lightsaber can only do so much good if your opponent is holding it in place with the force. Which Nox can do.

Now the point of my post isn't to argue in favor of Nox (though again, I'd probably pick Nox as the winner as I tend to favor casters). I'm sure an argument could be made for Nox curb-stomping Wrath, but it would be just as inaccurate. The point of this post is that the fight isn't so one-sided in Wrath's favor as some people seem to think.

In all honesty, the two are probably about equal. Do I remember correctly that people were quoting Pirates of the Caribbean earlier in the thread?

"Are we to be two immortals locked in an epic battle until Judgement Day and trumpets sound?"

"Or you could surrender."

That quote really seems like the best description of a Nox v Wrath fight.

I just noticed that part way through typing this I started using masculine pronouns. My B. Given ambiguity I tend to use masculine as default. Feel free to reread the whole entire post replacing he with she and his with her.

My moneys on Darth Imperius

Or Darth Nox as he/she is the dark side version.

My take is that if a battle in the Council chamber was held, similar to the final battles that each held in their stories, that the battle would be short and determined in only a few seconds.

We have the mastery of the lightsaber opposing the mastery of the force. The wrath needs to close distance to make a killing blow. There is little disputing the Wraith's lightsaber skills as much superior to Nox's.

Nox would likely either unleash a deadly volley of lightning, use telekinesis or force choke to bring down the Wraith. If the Wraith could resist Nox's initial attack, he would win.

It would come down to who really has the stronger connection to the force. In order to survive Nox's distance attack, the Wraith would need a stronger connection to shield himself from the lightning or break the force choke.

My money is on Nox. The infusion of the force ghosts gives him an unnatural edge over the Wraith.

In my opinion, the Sith Inquisitor character is far more powerful than the Sith Warrior character.

Sorry for the less than thrilling and well thought out opinion, haha...but that is how I look at it.

Lets see both masters of the dark side both at the physical prime one a legend with his lightsaber then other one a legend among the force users.

One is a master of lighting attacks the other one at best can do a electric judgment, the other one is a amazing mind tricker the other one can not use mind tricks but is very resistant to them.

So who is stronger well its clear Nox has more advantages but the problem is can they do any good. Well anything Nox uses the Wrath can counter but can Nox counter the Wraths skill with lightsaber.

To give a example The Wrath can become one with the force which basically gives him increased everything. But Nox has ghosts who do the same to possibly a even greater degree. So Nox to defeat the Wrath has to be faster as no mastery of lightsaber forms makes any difference if you opponent is way faster.

So if Nox is way faster he can defeat the Wrath if not well its the other way around.

Actually, the ending of the Warrior story proves that the Warrior can deflect lightning.

Can deflect Baras' lightning. Baras is clearly of the Warrior archetype, his lightning abilities pale compared to someone like Thanaton, and of course, Nox.

Resisting a force storm? that's something else.

Baras is clearly of the Warrior archetype.

What brings you to that conclusion? Baras seems much more likley to be like Thanaton with his move set, armour and use of lightning (Notice how in the cutscenes almost all of that type of character use lightning instead of force choke)

What brings you to that conclusion? Baras seems much more likley to be like Thanaton with his move set, armour and use of lightning (Notice how in the cutscenes almost all of that type of character use lightning instead of force choke)

Yes so true actually I saw only one sith who used choke in a cutscene in a FP and The Wrath and Nox and the hero of tython and well the Warden of the order okay all playable force users managed to use it.

You know what the strange thing about the Wrath is? He can not use lighting only electric judgment which is strange. You know his padawan can use lighting and the master can not.

But he can use force scream the only skill Darth Nox can not use and since that is bascially a very powerful sound that well can break glass or buildings in some cases, that can not be blocked by a force shield as we know sound does get passed a force shield. So that is a skill that can give pause or quite a injury to Darth Nox.

I still wonder why he can not use lighting he is not Darth Vader and has a life support suit that is affected by lighting. What could be the reason it is out of his reach. I also wonder why can't Darth Nox use force scream either but since there only about 3 or 4 force users in the entire Star Wars universe who used it this skill must be rare. I do not mean as the act of frustration or after being beaten but like a skill he can use whenever he wants.

Yes so true actually I saw only one sith who used choke in a cutscene in a FP and The Wrath and Nox and the hero of tython and well the Warden of the order okay all playable force users managed to use it.

You know what the strange thing about the Wrath is? He can not use lighting only electric judgment which is strange. You know his padawan can use lighting and the master can not.

But he can use force scream the only skill Darth Nox can not use and since that is bascially a very powerful sound that well can break glass or buildings in some cases, that can not be blocked by a force shield as we know sound does get passed a force shield. So that is a skill that can give pause or quite a injury to Darth Nox.

I still wonder why he can not use lighting he is not Darth Vader and has a life support suit that is affected by lighting. What could be the reason it is out of his reach. I also wonder why can't Darth Nox use force scream either but since there only about 3 or 4 force users in the entire Star Wars universe who used it this skill must be rare. I do not mean as the act of frustration or after being beaten but like a skill he can use whenever he wants.

You assume they don't use it because they can't, not just because they have different skil set focuses. The Warrior's skillset focuses on saber technique and quick force attacks to knock the enemy off guard.

Hard to say. We cant forget that Darth Nox absorbed all those ancient sith spirits but I can't see the emperor choosing someone who isn't able to completely enforce his will. It could be possible that The emperor's wrath might have been appointed before Darth Nox was placed on the Sith Council.

Nox's problem is that he/she is far less skilled or experienced than the Wrath (Nox having no sort of training before being brought to Korriban), Nox's whole plan throughout act 2 was to rely on raw power instead of actual skill. Plus, from the implications of the story, the Wrath is much better at strategy in battle (The whole end of act 1).

This has been done far too many times and there are far too many variables to consider, but generally:

Nox is far too strong with the force for the wrath to be able to cope with. Wrath's force abilities are average at best. Equally, the Wrath would make mincemeat of Nox in a lightsaber fight. Much like Thanaton, Nox would be able to ragdoll the Wrath, put them through several walls and generally deep fry them with lightning and the wrath would be utterly helpless. If, and that's a big if, the Wrath by some slim chance managed to get into melee range of Nox the Wrath insta wins.

TL;DR: Sorcerer Nox beats wrath, Wrath (probably) beats Assasain Nox (if he/she/it is lucky).