First they need to come to terms with the fact that ranged DPS and melee DPS can't be perfectly equal in terms of survivability and damage. Mercs and Juggs parse within 4-500 damage of each other, but Mercs have stronger defensives, better control, and more movement speed.

 

This is fine in PvE, but it doesn't work in PvP due to the difference in time on target. You can't have two classes with the same damage and similar defensives, but one gets to shoot you from 30 meters away and the other doesn't. Bioware has a few available options to try and correct this, but first and foremost they need to accept the fact that they created a class that has to stand in the middle of a ranged onslaught with few ways out. Juggernauts have to be equipped to weather the storm so they can actually participate in PvP, and ranged needs to be able to create distance.

 

DPS Juggs haven't been able to contribute in 4v4s for years now irrespective of player skill. The easiest way to balance this without breaking every other class in the game is to simply make Juggernauts tanky enough to survive the focus that they're inevitably going to receive.

 

My suggestions would be:

1) Add DR to Enraged Defense (For DPS spec only) and properly scale the heals received. Basically adding a buff similar to Power Yield but for Juggernauts.

 

2) Make Saber Reflect baseline with a passive "amp" that reduces the cooldown of Saber Reflect upon receiving incoming damage. Similar to Warmonger / what Mercs have for Energy Shield.

 

3)Increase the defensive capability of Saber Ward. This skill needs to be modernized.

 

Next step:

Pay very close attention to DPS Jugg ranked performance and adjust up or down accordingly.

 

yery good post! that is the core of the problem-range having too much defense (being range is a dcd by itself tbh) and damage compared to melee. additionally they all got perma slows on their rota abilities. this needs to be changed as well. the slows might make sense on sorc who is squishy but giving it to sniper and merc as well who both have very strong dcds is just laughable.

one thing you forgot is endure pain-worst dcd in the game-they it back to us baseline, but didn'T do the much needed rework of that dcd-get rid of the health lost part, making it a flat 30% heal, buff its dr to 25%.

and while you are at it buff blade blitz as well-2charges (as operative has on its roll) on a 20 sec cd with a 6 sec 50% slow instead of the neglectable damage it deals.-would make the lvl 78 choice less punishing while equipping the jugg with the tools needed to weather the storm of constant focus, cause he needs to be in the thicc of everything to be effective.

the Rage spec also needs to be upped damage wise as well. rage's crit potential is half of that of the fury maradeur.- this is laughable...

First they need to come to terms with the fact that ranged DPS and melee DPS can't be perfectly equal in terms of survivability and damage. Mercs and Juggs parse within 4-500 damage of each other, but Mercs have stronger defensives, better control, and more movement speed.

 

This is fine in PvE, but it doesn't work in PvP due to the difference in time on target. You can't have two classes with the same damage and similar defensives, but one gets to shoot you from 30 meters away and the other doesn't. Bioware has a few available options to try and correct this, but first and foremost they need to accept the fact that they created a class that has to stand in the middle of a ranged onslaught with few ways out. Juggernauts have to be equipped to weather the storm so they can actually participate in PvP, and ranged needs to be able to create distance.

 

DPS Juggs haven't been able to contribute in 4v4s for years now irrespective of player skill. The easiest way to balance this without breaking every other class in the game is to simply make Juggernauts tanky enough to survive the focus that they're inevitably going to receive.

 

My suggestions would be:

1) Add DR to Enraged Defense (For DPS spec only) and properly scale the heals received. Basically adding a buff similar to Power Yield but for Juggernauts.

 

2) Make Saber Reflect baseline with a passive "amp" that reduces the cooldown of Saber Reflect upon receiving incoming damage. Similar to Warmonger / what Mercs have for Energy Shield.

 

3)Increase the defensive capability of Saber Ward. This skill needs to be modernized.

 

Next step:

Pay very close attention to DPS Jugg ranked performance and adjust up or down accordingly.

 

 

Good idears. Please post it in the two other official feedback threads as well to raise some attention.

but now with the official release date out I sadly have little hope left that the devs will do something positivly impactful to make the class viable in 7.0. too many other things that need serious attention in the 4 weeks left till release. Best thing would still be to delay this whole xpac.as the vast majority of the feedback is negative across all boards

but now with the official release date out I sadly have little hope left that the devs will do something positivly impactful to make the class viable in 7.0. too many other things that need serious attention in the 4 weeks left till release. Best thing would still be to delay this whole xpac.as the vast majority of the feedback is negative across all boards

 

They clearly showed that they don´t care about jugg a long time ago so no surprise here. I pity every jugg dps main...

We don´t even get a respone in the official threads. Nothing.

tomorrow will come the final stage of the pts-lets see if they finally made some changes based on feedback to make jugg dps viable again. if not, then I guess all we can do is cancel sub and be done with merc wars-operatives of the old republic

Are they listening though? We’ve been giving feed back since the initial guardian PTS BioWare have done very little to restore Jugg/Guardian DCDs to a similar lvl required. While every other class has had it easier on the nerfs.

Also, it’s less than a month till they release. Do you honestly believe they are still making changes? Everything is locked in at this point.

 

I think the last point you made is most relevant.

 

At this stage, balance issues seem pretty minor compared to everything else that needs to be in basic, functional shape for the most accessed parts of the game to work properly by December 14th.

 

It's probably pretty simple for BW to tinker around with Guardian defensives and movement abilities early next year. As long as they are functional for the story, the new FP, and later the SM version of the new Operation, I don't think it's that much of a concern. Ranked PVP players can just play another class, as is basically the case on live now.

 

Frankly, there are going to be a lot of things to adjust on multiple classes, as people start doing more difficult PVE or PVP content with so many missing abilities and passives. And that won't even address player preferences for how the game should feel when played, which currently seems to be slowed down and clunkier compared to how SWTOR has been since at least 4.0, 6 years ago.

 

2022, especially the first months after the dev team returns from what will surely be a much needed holiday break, will be a lot of patches to fix what the incoming changes will surely break. I don't bring that up to be critical, only that it doesn't seem like there's enough time between now and December 14th for any other kind of outcome, alongside even small changes typically bugging out the game in various ways. I've been around since the launch month back in 1.x, and don't recall the game ever getting so many major changes to classes, systems, and leveling all at once.

 

For folks upset about any particular change or what might be happening to their main class currently, it might be worth just taking a break for a while, and seeing where things are at later next year, perhaps by sometime in the summer. I never did this in the past with expansions, but this one feels very different. We'll see what's in the final release.

Edited November 22, 2021 by arunav

I think the last point you made is most relevant.

 

At this stage, balance issues seem pretty minor compared to everything else that needs to be in basic, functional shape for the most accessed parts of the game to work properly by December 14th.

 

It's probably pretty simple for BW to tinker around with Guardian defensives and movement abilities early next year. As long as they are functional for the story, the new FP, and later the SM version of the new Operation, I don't think it's that much of a concern. Ranked PVP players can just play another class, as is basically the case on live now.

 

Frankly, there are going to be a lot of things to adjust on multiple classes, as people start doing more difficult PVE or PVP content with so many missing abilities and passives. And that won't even address player preferences for how the game should feel when played, which currently seems to be slowed down and clunkier compared to how SWTOR has been since at least 4.0, 6 years ago.

 

2022, especially the first months after the dev team returns from what will surely be a much needed holiday break, will be a lot of patches to fix what the incoming changes will surely break. I don't bring that up to be critical, only that it doesn't seem like there's enough time between now and December 14th for any other kind of outcome, alongside even small changes typically bugging out the game in various ways. I've been around since the launch month back in 1.x, and don't recall the game ever getting so many major changes to classes, systems, and leveling all at once.

 

For folks upset about any particular change or what might be happening to their main class currently, it might be worth just taking a break for a while, and seeing where things are at later next year, perhaps by sometime in the summer. I never did this in the past with expansions, but this one feels very different. We'll see what's in the final release.

 

Well many people are angry because they promised to look into our dcds (and rage spec) a long time ago. even before 6.0. I think thats plenty of time to get an idear for this class and the changes it needs right? But the updates till now clearly show the exact opposite. No one expects an optimal outcome or even good balance on 14. december. But what they did to jugg dd is just braindead and ignorant.

Edited November 22, 2021 by -_Richtus_-

 

For folks upset about any particular change or what might be happening to their main class currently, it might be worth just taking a break for a while, and seeing where things are at later next year,

 

That’s what my plan is. Bioware only act when it hits them in the hip pocket.

I’ve already canceled my reoccurring sub and left feed back for the management team.

My current sub runs out in January. So I’ll have a look at the expansion on the 14th-15th to see if theyve fixed all the stuff I’ve unsubbed over. But I expect it will be as it is now and I’ll stop playing shortly after.

Wether I come back or not will depend on if they make changes or/and I haven’t found something better to spend my money on / play time doing. Ie another game like FFXIV

That’s what my plan is. Bioware only act when it hits them in the hip pocket.

I’ve already canceled my reoccurring sub and left feed back for the management team.

My current sub runs out in January. So I’ll have a look at the expansion on the 14th-15th to see if theyve fixed all the stuff I’ve unsubbed over. But I expect it will be as it is now and I’ll stop playing shortly after.

Wether I come back or not will depend on if they make changes or/and I haven’t found something better to spend my money on / play time doing. Ie another game like FFXIV

 

Thats my plan aswell.

final pts phase is down-no feedback about anything we said for months from dev side- so I guess we can assume what we saw is what we get....time to move on...bye bye "operatives of the old republic"....

The problem with the "hit them in the wallet" scenario, is Jedi Knight is to iconic of a role. It's still going to be played so much.

Is this week's PTS going to be the final one? There are still bugs, so at launch we the users will be the testers?

Is this week's PTS going to be the final one? There are still bugs, so at launch we the users will be the testers?

 

Pretty much! there will be bugs everywhere for at least the first 2-3 weeks. But well,we play swtor so gotta be used to bugs .

Edited November 23, 2021 by DougTheNoob

Is this week's PTS going to be the final one? There are still bugs, so at launch we the users will be the testers?

 

They said the last PTS build was the final one. So we won't see any other build before 7.0 launch. So much was untested as well.

 

1)Most of the UI still had Work in progress on them.

2) the ability tree's didn't seem to stay to what you put them at.

3) the Inventory bug for auto sorting was still there.

4) Most of the weeklies still didn't have the gear boxes for them so we couldn't get a full picture of the gearing system. We only got to see the type of stuff bosses drop, and how to upgrade items, not the rest of it.

5) We never got to test out the Loadout system at all.

 

I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of things, but these are just some of the stuff I still noticed in the last build.

Is this week's PTS going to be the final one? There are still bugs, so at launch we the users will be the testers?

 

Apparently so, but I really can't see how it should be given the awful state of the one they just took down.

 

If they fixed them I think they need the PTS to confirm especially with a release so close to Christmas.

That’s what my plan is. Bioware only act when it hits them in the hip pocket.

I’ve already canceled my reoccurring sub and left feed back for the management team.

My current sub runs out in January. So I’ll have a look at the expansion on the 14th-15th to see if theyve fixed all the stuff I’ve unsubbed over. But I expect it will be as it is now and I’ll stop playing shortly after.

Wether I come back or not will depend on if they make changes or/and I haven’t found something better to spend my money on / play time doing. Ie another game like FFXIV

 

Canceled my sub on both of my accounts as well, one of which has been subbed nonstop since the game launched (even for about of year where I was not even playing, just occasionally logging in once every 2-3 months). It really is a shame that Bioware is chasing a hypothetical market that they will likely never be able to capitalize on and giving the middle finger to everyone currently playing the game. Even if they do initially gain new players, as has happened in the past, these new players will simply vanish after a few months and we will have a net loss of players.

 

I just wish more people would actually take some action about these changes. Sure, you can voice your opinions in a forum all you want, but that accomplishes virtually nothing when the dev team flat out ignores it. More people need to unsubscribe so that maybe, just maybe, it hurts them enough to hopefully make them realize that they made a big mistake. And if the game dies because they do not want to fix this mistake, then the game dies; it will already be dead to me come 7.0.

 

I may come back to this game at some point, but I highly doubt it. I lack the faith in Bioware's ability to make any good changes to this game once 7.0 goes live.

I find your lack of faith disturbing

I find your lack of faith disturbing

 

do you like the changes as seen on the pts?