View Single Post

ralphieceaser's Avatar

09.28.2021 , 06:55 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by WaywardOne View Post
I would also recommend you have a look at Warcraft logs. Wow's talent tree for raid content is also cookie cutter for the vast majority of classes. However you can still see major differences in performance between average and great players fairly easily.
I am actively playing WoW rn and I can tell you that gap can be seeing very clearly even to this day, and that is coming from someone who plays the most non meta yet fun legendaries/specs and covenants and does 20s, bad players will always be visible no matter how meta they play because they follow guides and cant understand them.
And you are aware that wow classes have been prunned a lot since WoD, with only few weak flavor abilities returning in the last xpac (Often at the expense of previous utility, cough cough displacement gone for arcane due to alter time)

Yet as you have said, the skill differences are still quite enormous and obvious, most classes dont have 3-4 strong dcds, some barely have 1 good one, yet again skill differences are still there and quite enormous.

Quote: Originally Posted by WaywardOne View Post
Those differences are going to be reduced in 7.0 (not eliminated) - that is what happens when you reduce real time options. These are the PTS forums for swtor, right? I'm really not interested in references to other games unless the current situations mirror swtor's. Warcraft right now does not mirror where swtor's going in 7.0.
I would say wow does mirror where swtor is going cuz wow has gone through a serious amount of prunning yet skill differences are still quite enormous.

Quote: Originally Posted by WaywardOne View Post
The "thinking" part is going to be over in the first month or two of the expac. There's no new required coordination that doesn't happen right now - in fact there will be less because things that people can do now won't be available in 7.0. After a month or two, when people aren't really "thinking" anymore, people are going to get yelled at for not using google.
I am pretty sure he was referring to real time coordination and use of other utilities since dcds did dominate in importance and also extended the duration of pvp matches by a decent amount, some would argue too long.
I understand the value of many dcds and how at the hands of a good player it might make you extremely hard to kill but at the same time it does feel some classes have gone a little out of control in terms of defensives so I can absolutely understand the desire to clear the board and start fresh and try to balance things from there which is what I am ok with this.
A reset is always needed every now and then and it will definitely make the skill differences less in pvp at least since good players will no longer be able to be almost immortal in regs but I feel that isnt such a bad thing, you ll simply have to play better and smarter to survive as much as b4 without depending on some abilities that almost become a crutch for some, the difference might technically be less but it will still be enormous and WoW attests to that.
A wow related example would be how average players for example by playing the most meta broken specs are able to time 20s by brute forcing them with their spec's broken amounts of damage even though they repeatedly fail mechanics and wipe, playing meta for such people becomes a crutch and is what carries them through the content, not their skill.
In pvp obviously things are very different since sadly it means you have to depend on others being good since you no longer will be able to survive as much through good useage of dcds, which i absolutely agree does kinda suck, but I feel the value of a reset is a lot higher than my personal feelings on how much i enjoy being almost unkillable at times as a dps in regs

Quote: Originally Posted by WaywardOne View Post
That's why they made starter PVP gear better and easier and easier to get until they finally removed it completely and bolstered everyone that tries a little to have very comparable stats in most situations. The problem is that when bad players have bad experiences they tend to stop playing, only a few press on to get better especially when lots of people are yelling at them. BW loves their bad players.
Let's not pretend this is about skill when it comes to pvp, thankfully with the amount of dcds and utility this game has skill in pvp becomes pretty clear, good players are very hard to kill.
No offense but this is a little ironic to try to imply skill issues and then complain about swtor's fair pvp system where everyone is equal and skill is what decides a fight instead of higher ilvl.

That is why swtor is known for the far more fun and enjoyable pvp while WoW's pvp has gone to the trash bin since they keep trying to bring back gear>>>skill so now it is all about gear grind because it doesnt matter how good you are, you wont kill a mythic geared characters with your low ilvl set you just started with.

So at least that argument does not stand because if they truly cared about giving low skilled players an advantage so they can have fun and feel strong, they would go the WoW route where they would ask them to grind gear so they can 2 shot the players who are still in the process of trying to get said gear.