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06.25.2020 , 01:45 PM | #9911
Quote: Originally Posted by Khaleijo View Post
After all, pretty much all of the difficult FP bosses can be broken down into a combination of several mechanics that already have been used elsewhere in the game.
Most of the time, it's not the mechanic itself, it's the delivery. There is nothing cognitively complex about the umbara last boss, but I'd argue it is out of line because the cheese way of doing it is pretty much the only thing players are universally equipped with for dealing with that. 70-80% hp damage at random group members not coordinated with adds spawn which happens on a separate, hp percentage-related timeline feels overtuned if you don't LOS adds hard. Same-ish with Copero, add waves are interesting but there's not a clear and telegraphed way to deal with them which would scream "hey here's how we designed this" - unlike fire puddles on Stivastin and such. Same with Tython last boss where I constantly seeing groups struggling even if on the surface they get the mechanics right - it's a mix of the mechanical skill, lag issues and healing requirements which are VASTLY different from the bulk of MMFPs and... It's just punishing. If one mistake like standing in bad kills people, on average there will be problems. I wish more people got exposed to Tyrans HM+ so they'd know the importance of positioning, baiting circles and such, that's one severely lacking skill these days.

Quote: Originally Posted by Khaleijo View Post
Just as mechanics are ignored, roles are often too, a healer there that would be well able to heal the group if they don't park in damaging effects, yet the kolto stations are clicked immediately after getting a mere scratch, tank losing a boss to a DPS, doesn't matter, pop a CD and ignore it.
Oh there's a lot to unpack here. In VM, kolto stations are so good it's massively more beneficial for the group if the healer was just dpsing or, better, came on a dps spec in the first place. Largely the same goes for the tank, actually.
Then there are gear issues - sure thing, most of the time you can keep aggro as a tank but there's just no way you can do it vs a lvl75 person with set bonus, tactical, 30 VE stacks and whatnot with 100% uptime while leveling (why do these geared people run VMs in the first place?.. Beats me).

Quote: Originally Posted by Khaleijo View Post
The rest who really would need some kind of learning experience just follow that, but without the underlying understanding and experience and then wonder why it doesn't work when they are on their own. Most likely causing toxic behaviour and blaming the rest of the group too then. (snip)

And yes, it works there too, but usually only as long there are a few old school players, experienced PvPers, HC or NIM raiders present that carry the group through.
First off, you don't need experienced people to "carry" anyone in a regular SM operation. I mean, we do it as a gig with friends where 2 actually experienced players "carry" 1-2 less experienced ones in 3-4-manning SM ops, but with 8 players you really don't need to go out of your way trying to beat enrage with a DwT and a healer while also filling the mechanics requirements somehow. Many of the relevant mechanics got removed from SM over the years, notably Kephess in TfB, the tower of Hanoi in KP (why BW?..), gate puzzle in DF and so on.

Next, toxic behavior isn't really caused by "doesn't work when they are on their own" as much as it's a trigger. The lack of education and motivation to put some effort in the group content are sure factors.
Worst of all, some of the nicest people I knew from years ago got weathered down in some 5 years of not quitting the game and are now complaining about "the average PUG" as much as the next person. They've lost the will to teach because at this point it feels more futile than ever and is met with (sometimes aggressive) negligence.
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