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Crazykidddd's Avatar

06.30.2022 , 09:39 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by joshrva View Post
I literally didn't say anything about lethality not taking flash bang. Flash bang is on an entirely different tier than hardstun. To take hardstun you only have to give up an evasion buff (2s longer evasion on leth, 15 second cooldown reduction and 50% movement speed increase on conc). To take flashbang, you have to give up holotraverse (gap closer), and a lot of operatives choose to still take holotraverse.

No, no one would die in one hardstun unless they're the type of global bait that already dies in one hardstun or without a stun. I don't think you have ever played rank based on the things you have said. You regstars have the misconception about ranked in that it's just a numbers game and whoever can number fluff the best wins. This is entirely false. In ranked, players actually know how to use their dcds, they know how to kite, they know how to peal, etc. You will not kill anyone if every class can run around whitebarred after one hardstun or 3 roots.

You use AP PT as an example to your argument, so I will too. AP PT has two stun breakers, regular one and stun breaker on kolto. Currently, you can stun one twice and whitebar them and they will be able to break both of them. Imagine, if one stun whitebarred them, they could break that, be unstunnable for 15s, be stunned and whitebarred again, break new stun, and then be unstunnable for another 15s. That would be 30s of being unstunnable. With their "5 sec ttk," this means they could kill the whole enemy team 1.5 times over without having to sit a single stun.

Sorc is another class that would be broken with one hardstun whitebar. Sorc has 3 breakers, and their staying alive strategy focuses heavily around kiting. If every stun whitebarred them, with their 3 breakers, they would be unstunnable for at least 45s. But it gets worse, because phase walk is on a 60s cooldown, so they will likely be able to use it for their fourth stun. That means 1m15 of not being stunnable. That is ridiculous, when the only way to kill a decent sorc is in a hardstun.

You are partly right in that, yes, players can be killed in one hardstun. They most often are. But you're heavily overlooking the fact that in an arena, each player will have at least one breaker, and all of their dcds available at the start. If one stun whitebarred you, the ttk would just be way too high. Additionally, your claim that only being able to hardstun an enemy once will take improved player coordination, this is false. In solo and especially team ranked, chain stunning people takes way more coordination. If you have not played either game mode I do not want to hear your opinion on this, if you have then feel free to challenge me on that and say why you think one hardstun takes more coordination.

Also, saying we're in a burst meta is kinda dumb. The meta in solo ranked will always be "burst," however, two of the 4 meta classes right now aren't even by definition burst, those two being lethality and madness.
K, misunderstanding about lethality then.
Believe me I have no misconceptions about ranked.
You say no one would die in one hard stun unless they're global bait, but there are obviously many times when people die not stunned. Unless you're playing GR (which then does become much more of a numbers game than SR) and die to the sudden death debuff, then there are only so many cds available to people, and any team properly focusing one target would not need more than one consecutive hard stun to kill any one target if major cooldowns are out of the way (looking mostly at escapes or immunities).
Also saying that sorc has access to 3 breakers pretty much means nothing unless we're talking about a noob who pops all his cds at once. Any sorc taking focus from a team will have to pop some kind of important cd at some point to live and so calling those "stun breakers" doesn't really mean anything bcs you're taking the sorc out of the fight either way and chipping away at its defenses.
Btw, less stuns also means classes will be able to do more damage, especially the ones that require a certain amount of setup to not be interrupted to maximize their damage output.
And a pt being immune to stuns for 30 secs straight wont mean that he'll kill the entire team at 1 person/ 5 seconds.
FIrst off the pt's burst is not sustainable, and second, like you said, classes have defensives and people to peel for them (if we're talking about a competent group, rare) so no, a pt being immune to stuns for 30 secs would not lay waste to a team. Btw, as it stands, if a pt doesnt break his first stun, he is now immune to cc for at least 30 secs, its basically the same scenario.
If you honestly think that calling out in voice chat for someone to get their stun ready as soon as yours goes out to kill a target is hard then we're talking about diff levels of skill here.
Tbh this whole conversation is silly. The ability to be hard stunned for 8 secs straight is obviously not he sole way to kill people in any content, be it regs or ranked. Will it make things more difficult? Yes. Is that a good thing? YES.
You mention the current meta means nothing bcs burst was always favored for ranked. What does that have to do with anything?
I'm saying the current meta is absolutely ridiculous. There is so much burst in the game atm (and less defensives) that having to be hard stunned for 8 secs straight to be able to kill someone is just a L2P issue.
Now for all I care they can also reduce the bar's duration from 15 down to 10 secs, as long as it means being able to not die stunned over and over.
My point was in fact more focused on regs than it was on ranked, for many reasons, and so I'd still be happy if it only applied to regs, but something needs to be done.