First of all thanks for you work.

but i have 2 questions:

1. Like Shini said we started a discussion about using the hot relic.

I made a calculation about Power vs Hot Relic.

Power Relic gaves my Sage a Healing + per skill roundabout 280 bonushealing and last 6 Seconds

so i can do 3-4 Skills in this 6 Seconds which means an bonushealing of 840-1120 the Hot relic instead does ~1500 heal. As i know the Hot Relic can crit too so there is no additional calculation needed.

Am i right if i say as long as i dont have an AOE Healer like Scoundrel i should use the Hot relic?

At Commando site i think its the same except the power proc is up at probe tick or kolto cloud tick

2. Accuracy

Why 7 + 1 Augments instead of 5 + 2 Enhancements.

Hey Bant,

Could you do a calculation between the old Dread Master 4-piece + new 2 piece vs. the new 6-piece set bonus for Sorcs/Sages?

Would be nice to finally have some numbers to compare.

All hail the stats king!

Thank you so much for posting this. How does it feel to be shaping a large part of the PVE community?

THX a lot - very very nice work!

gratz on another fine post. ill picket in austin if they take it down lol. they should be happy you show all dps within 5%.

im waiting for damage profiles of hm and nim to come in, but ive done some preliminary calcs showing 198 absorb mods to be bis for sin/pt for most damage profiles (barring force scream calcs). unfortunatley, i think anyone who had that schematic has had it taken away.

looks like you are assuming bmod tanks are going to use 2 dps relics for the endurance. specifically the call on k13 for cell h47 on the gear stats page (for 224 gear). i hope bmod tanks will keep the warding relic, but i can see em taking an extra 75 damage per second for the 203 endurance. is this a bug or do you see bmod tanks using 2 dps relics?

Oversight on my part.

The reason why the k13 is still endurance is that I still use the same table to generate the dps and tank stat totals and I forgot to include the fix for mastery in the other two tank stat totals. Those totals on that page were for my quick reference. (And worked fine in 3.x) I fixed them to use tanking relics again.

In my code I pull the raw values from the table and add them up there (because I have more control there for arbitrary ilevel changes. This code is also where I put most of my levers that allow me to look at alternate gearing profiles (such as dps relics, crical relic, b-mods, lower level b-mods for 224, forcing max accuracy and others.)

I actually don't know what the limits should be for gearing for additional endurance. Should we look at having a certain hp value to avoid the largest one shot? should we have a buffer to allow healers time to catch up? Should we define a certain percentage as the maximum amount of total mitigation we are willing to give up? What is endurance worth compared to hps? Should we delay taking top tier gear until the dps and healers are done due to the minimal gains of going up a gear tier?

Lots of questions on this, still am short on answers.

Oversight on my part.

 

The reason why the k13 is still endurance is that I still use the same table to generate the dps and tank stat totals and I forgot to include the fix for mastery in the other two tank stat totals. Those totals on that page were for my quick reference. (And worked fine in 3.x) I fixed them to use tanking relics again.

 

In my code I pull the raw values from the table and add them up there (because I have more control there for arbitrary ilevel changes. This code is also where I put most of my levers that allow me to look at alternate gearing profiles (such as dps relics, crical relic, b-mods, lower level b-mods for 224, forcing max accuracy and others.)

 

I actually don't know what the limits should be for gearing for additional endurance. Should we look at having a certain hp value to avoid the largest one shot? should we have a buffer to allow healers time to catch up? Should we define a certain percentage as the maximum amount of total mitigation we are willing to give up? Wgat is endurance worth compared to hps? Should we delay thereng until the dps and healers are done due to the minimal gains of going up a gear tier?

 

Lots of questions on this, still am short on answers.

the whole time to kill versus mitigation thing has been a sore point for tank theorycrafting since the beginning. right now it seems like tanks are going to have to make all sorts of weird desicions. 224 unlettered, versus 198 unlettered, versus 198 bmods, versus 220 (since 224 arent in game) bmods. i have a feeling that going with 198 absorb bmods with one or two dps relics might be a thing....

Thanks to you and KBN and all the others for doing this. Using your numbers, I always do well in the limited number of Ops and FPs I get to do, gaining compliments for my tanking skill. I know that my stats are only half the battle, but you guys make it easy to balance my stats, so I can focus on being a more skilled player.

TL;DR Thanks!

First of all thanks for you work.

 

but i have 2 questions:

 

1. Like Shini said we started a discussion about using the hot relic.

 

I made a calculation about Power vs Hot Relic.

 

Power Relic gaves my Sage a Healing + per skill roundabout 280 bonushealing and last 6 Seconds

so i can do 3-4 Skills in this 6 Seconds which means an bonushealing of 840-1120 the Hot relic instead does ~1500 heal. As i know the Hot Relic can crit too so there is no additional calculation needed.

 

Am i right if i say as long as i dont have an AOE Healer like Scoundrel i should use the Hot relic?

At Commando site i think its the same except the power proc is up at probe tick or kolto cloud tick

 

 

2. Accuracy

Why 7 + 1 Augments instead of 5 + 2 Enhancements.

1) I haven't looked into the Ephemeral Mending Relics because usually they are both terrible (a most a 1.5k heal every 20s) and can't be controlled on who they heal or over heal. And you can actually fit 4-5 moves in under the 6s power proc and they can be fully controlled on who needs them)

2) Accuracy I chose the value that was closest to 110% (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=844023). The 5/2 is further away then the 7/1 even though it does provide greater than 110%.

Hey Bant,

 

Could you do a calculation between the old Dread Master 4-piece + new 2 piece vs. the new 6-piece set bonus for Sorcs/Sages?

 

Would be nice to finally have some numbers to compare.

I removed the code I inserted to test this last time.

I dislike recommending gear sets that are now unobtainable in game. For this same reason I won't recommend keeping the 198 Absorb Mods because they are just as unobtainable.

wow, thanks for doing this, definitely gonna use it as a reference.

i need a errrrooooo

Any chance you could run some numbers at the 224 level with 5 accuracy augs + 2 enhancements enforced? Even if it isn't optimal, I prefer 110% accuracy.

Appreciate the time you spent on this.

2) Accuracy I chose the value that was closest to 110% (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=844023). The 5/2 is further away then the 7/1 even though it does provide greater than 110%.

Still gonna run 5/2 though. Cause I had an incident in 2.X where I wiped the raid twice because of missing an interrupt against Corruptors in NiM Draxus. With 99.98% accuracy. In the same night.

Any chance you could run some numbers at the 224 level with 5 accuracy augs + 2 enhancements enforced? Even if it isn't optimal, I prefer 110% accuracy.

 

Appreciate the time you spent on this.

Just those stats then: (side effect is a synergy with 220 due to 5 augments of accuracy)

I may change the front page at some point to use these values in a future update.

Another thing:

I noticed you went with Yolo's 3-Cull for Virulence. A while back, I came up with an alternative rotation due to the revelation takedown/Quickdraw is only better than Lethal Shot/Dirty Blast above 30% health and without weakening blast up, or with the DM 4-piece (no longer accessible)

Would like to see how it ranks. Rotation:

CD -> CG -> TD -> WB -> Cull ->

LS X2 -> SoS -> Cull ->

LS X2 -> TD -> WB -> Cull ->

CD -> CG -> SoS -> Cull ->

LS X2 -> TD -> WB -> Cull ->

LS X2 -> SoS -> Cull ->

Repeat

Replace TD with LS sub-30, and for resource management prioritize replacing LS (not under WB), Then TD, And then normal LS (which shouldn't be neccesary)

Another thing:

I noticed you went with Yolo's 3-Cull for Virulence. A while back, I came up with an alternative rotation due to the revelation takedown/Quickdraw is only better than Lethal Shot/Dirty Blast above 30% health and without weakening blast up, or with the DM 4-piece (no longer accessible)

 

Would like to see how it ranks. Rotation:

 

CD -> CG -> TD -> WB -> Cull ->

LS X2 -> SoS -> Cull ->

 

LS X2 -> TD -> WB -> Cull ->

CD -> CG -> SoS -> Cull ->

 

LS X2 -> TD -> WB -> Cull ->

LS X2 -> SoS -> Cull ->

 

Repeat

 

Replace TD with LS sub-30, and for resource management prioritize replacing LS (not under WB), Then TD, And then normal LS (which shouldn't be neccesary)

I don't actually work directly with rotations, they are mainly posted because I always get asked the same questions on it. I work with average time between ability activation.

But you already knew that.

Full Disclosure: I may have "stolen" [and did "steal"] many of the techniques and data for doing this this from you.

That being said, I entered in your modified version and here are the results:

(Also using this as a chance to show off some of the system capabilities)

Virulence Sniper Added Assumptions

• Rotation is 27s long (18GCDs)
  
• 3 Culls are used per 27s
  
• I use a modified the number of hits for the dots: 23.1 per application = (9 default + 3 * 4 Cull) * 110% Extra tick chance
  
• The number of hits for Weakening Blast is ~24.8. This is based on the time averaged tick rate of triggering abilities per second, then multiplying the result by 10 and adding 1 for initial hit. This actually makes the tick rate match the number of ticks on parsely.io.
  
• Corrosive Mine (roll) is used every 27s because it is a free dps boost compared to Rifle Shot.
  
• I try to undershoot on the energy used for this spec because of the critical related energy regain and non-linear energy regen
  
• Lethal Shot is used every chance that can be afforded (currently set as the remainder of GCDs after every other move is used)
  
• Special note: Corrosive Grenade's coefficients don't seem to match the damage output of the move. Unsure on reason why.
  

Changes Made for your rotation:

• Series of Shots moved from 27s to 18s
  
• Takedown moved from 13.5s to 18s pre 30%
  
• Takedown moved from 13.5s to 0s sub 30%
  
• Rifle Shots moved from 81s to 0s
  
• Corrosive Mine remains at 27d
  
• Lethal Shot Automatically moved from ~8.5s to 9s pre 30%
  
• Lethal Shot Automatically moved from ~8.5s to 6s sub 30%
  
• Weakening Blast hits Automatically moved from 24.84 ticks estimation to 25.77 ticks
  
• Manually added an extra tick to Weakening Blast to simulate better optimized use of Lethal Shot
  

Modified Rotation Results: (gear not shown)

224: 6873

220: 6620

216: 6354

Original Results: (gear not shown)

224: 6831

220: 6579

216: 6315

Now for me showing off my automated outputs:

Modified Version: Sniper - Virulence

Ability, Tooltip, Average Damage, Normal Hit, Normal Crit, Crit Percent, Time between uses, DPS, Percent of Total;
Corrosive Dart, 21757, 34478.04, 1158.29, 1855.04, 43.11%, 24.64s, 1399.09, 20.36%;
Corrosive Grenade, 20430, 32198.36, 1081.7, 1732.39, 43.11%, 24.64s, 1306.58, 19.01%;
Cull, 8200-8638, 9930.11, 1630.14, 2878.94, 63.68%, 8.21s, 1208.86, 17.59%;
Weakening Blast, 11813-12437, 12649.72, 380.82, 609.9, 43.11%, 16.43s, 769.97, 11.20%;
Series of Shots, 12314-12975, 12587.51, 2442.12, 4077, 43.11%, 16.43s, 766.18, 11.15%;
Lethal Shot (Poison), 2594, 3962.53, 3157.11, 5056.22, 38.11%, 7.44s, 557.61, 8.11%;
Lethal Shot, 3273-3449, 3258.86, 2596.47, 4334.67, 38.11%, 7.44s, 452.8, 6.59%;
Takedown, 7550-7954, 7555.64, 6019.89, 10049.91, 38.11%, 11.78s, 329.88, 4.80%;
Corrosive Mine, 1195, 2028.21, 538.65, 862.67, 38.11%, 24.64s, 82.3, 1.20%;

Original Version: Sniper - Virulence

Ability, Tooltip, Average Damage, Normal Hit, Normal Crit, Crit Percent, Time between uses, DPS, Percent of Total;
Corrosive Dart, 21757, 34477.02, 1158.26, 1854.98, 43.11%, 24.64s, 1399.04, 20.48%;
Corrosive Grenade, 20430, 32197.4, 1081.67, 1732.33, 43.11%, 24.64s, 1306.54, 19.13%;
Cull, 8200-8638, 9929.77, 1630.09, 2878.84, 63.68%, 8.21s, 1208.82, 17.70%;
Weakening Blast, 11383-11985, 12189.51, 380.81, 609.88, 43.11%, 16.43s, 741.96, 10.86%;
Takedown, 7550-7954, 7555.39, 6019.7, 10049.59, 38.11%, 12.34s, 612.48, 8.97%;
Series of Shots, 12314-12975, 12587.08, 2442.04, 4076.87, 43.11%, 24.64s, 510.77, 7.48%;
Lethal Shot (Poison), 2594, 3962.41, 3157.02, 5056.06, 38.11%, 7.78s, 509.52, 7.46%;
Lethal Shot, 3273-3449, 3258.75, 2596.38, 4334.53, 38.11%, 7.78s, 419.05, 6.13%;
Corrosive Mine, 1195, 2028.15, 538.64, 862.64, 38.11%, 24.64s, 82.3, 1.20%;
Rifle Shot, 2926-3169, 2971.77, 1183.87, 1976.41, 38.11%, 73.93s, 40.2, 0.59%;

I don't actually work directly with rotations, they are mainly posted because I always get asked the same questions on it. I work with average time between ability activation.

 

But you already knew that.

Full Disclosure: I may have "stolen" [and did "steal"] many of the techniques and data for doing this this from you.

 

That being said, I entered in your modified version and here are the results:

(Also using this as a chance to show off some of the system capabilities)

 

 

Virulence Sniper Added Assumptions

• Rotation is 27s long (18GCDs)
  
• 3 Culls are used per 27s
  
• I use a modified the number of hits for the dots: 23.1 per application = (9 default + 3 * 4 Cull) * 110% Extra tick chance
  
• The number of hits for Weakening Blast is ~24.8. This is based on the time averaged tick rate of triggering abilities per second, then multiplying the result by 10 and adding 1 for initial hit. This actually makes the tick rate match the number of ticks on parsely.io.
  
• Corrosive Mine (roll) is used every 27s because it is a free dps boost compared to Rifle Shot.
  
• I try to undershoot on the energy used for this spec because of the critical related energy regain and non-linear energy regen
  
• Lethal Shot is used every chance that can be afforded (currently set as the remainder of GCDs after every other move is used)
  
• Special note: Corrosive Grenade's coefficients don't seem to match the damage output of the move. Unsure on reason why.
  

 

 

Changes Made for your rotation:

• Series of Shots moved from 27s to 18s
  
• Takedown moved from 13.5s to 18s pre 30%
  
• Takedown moved from 13.5s to 0s sub 30%
  
• Rifle Shots moved from 81s to 0s
  
• Corrosive Mine remains at 27d
  
• Lethal Shot Automatically moved from ~8.5s to 9s pre 30%
  
• Lethal Shot Automatically moved from ~8.5s to 6s sub 30%
  
• Weakening Blast hits Automatically moved from 24.84 ticks estimation to 25.77 ticks
  
• Manually added an extra tick to Weakening Blast to simulate better optimized use of Lethal Shot
  

 

 

Modified Rotation Results: (gear not shown)

224: 6873

220: 6620

216: 6354

 

Original Results: (gear not shown)

224: 6831

220: 6579

216: 6315

 

 

 

Now for me showing off my automated outputs:

 

Modified Version: Sniper - Virulence

 

 

Input Settings:

Sniper - Virulence

ilvl 224, All Augment Combinations Tested, All Debuffs applied, 35% Operations Dummy

 

5372 Mastery

6410 Endurance

2931 Power

1163 Critical

920 Alacrity

701 Accuracy

1 Critical Augment; 8 Alacrity Augments; 5 Accuracy Augments; 2 Eviscerating Crystals;

 

Calculated Stats: (without Procs)

Damage: 2926-3169

OH Damage: -

Bonus Damage: 1835.9

Accuracy: 110.19%

OH Accuracy: 76.19%

Crit Chance: 37.69%

Crit Bonus: 66.95%

Bonus Special: 2616.4

Bonus Heal: 1889.8

Special Accuracy: 110.19%

Special Crit Chance: 37.69%

Special Crit Bonus: 66.95%

Alacrity: 9.56%

Health: 80883

Armor Rating: 5649

Damage Reduction: 25.62%

Defense Chance: 5.00%

Shield Chance: 0.00%

Absorb Percent: 0.00%

Mastery Relic Uptime: 31.62%

Power Relic Uptime: 28.96%

 

Average DPS: 6873

28.27% of time spent sub 30% HP

35.14 APM

 

(Sorry for the formatting, Tab delineation and tables don't work on the forums)

Ability, Tooltip, Average Damage, Normal Hit, Normal Crit, Crit Percent, Time between uses, DPS, Percent of Total;
Corrosive Dart, 21757, 34478.04, 1158.29, 1855.04, 43.11%, 24.64s, 1399.09, 20.36%;
Corrosive Grenade, 20430, 32198.36, 1081.7, 1732.39, 43.11%, 24.64s, 1306.58, 19.01%;
Cull, 8200-8638, 9930.11, 1630.14, 2878.94, 63.68%, 8.21s, 1208.86, 17.59%;
Weakening Blast, 11813-12437, 12649.72, 380.82, 609.9, 43.11%, 16.43s, 769.97, 11.20%;
Series of Shots, 12314-12975, 12587.51, 2442.12, 4077, 43.11%, 16.43s, 766.18, 11.15%;
Lethal Shot (Poison), 2594, 3962.53, 3157.11, 5056.22, 38.11%, 7.44s, 557.61, 8.11%;
Lethal Shot, 3273-3449, 3258.86, 2596.47, 4334.67, 38.11%, 7.44s, 452.8, 6.59%;
Takedown, 7550-7954, 7555.64, 6019.89, 10049.91, 38.11%, 11.78s, 329.88, 4.80%;
Corrosive Mine, 1195, 2028.21, 538.65, 862.67, 38.11%, 24.64s, 82.3, 1.20%;

 

 

 

Original Version: Sniper - Virulence

 

 

Input Settings:

Sniper - Virulence

ilvl 224, All Augment Combinations Tested, All Debuffs applied, 35% Operations Dummy, Full Accuraccy

 

5372 Mastery

6410 Endurance

2931 Power

1163 Critical

920 Alacrity

701 Accuracy

1 Critical Augment; 8 Alacrity Augments; 5 Accuracy Augments; 2 Eviscerating Crystals;

 

Calculated Stats: (without Procs)

Damage: 2926-3169

OH Damage: -

Bonus Damage: 1835.9

Accuracy: 110.19%

OH Accuracy: 76.19%

Crit Chance: 37.69%

Crit Bonus: 66.95%

Bonus Special: 2616.4

Bonus Heal: 1889.8

Special Accuracy: 110.19%

Special Crit Chance: 37.69%

Special Crit Bonus: 66.95%

Alacrity: 9.56%

Health: 80883

Armor Rating: 5649

Damage Reduction: 25.62%

Defense Chance: 5.00%

Shield Chance: 0.00%

Absorb Percent: 0.00%

Mastery Relic Uptime: 31.59%

Power Relic Uptime: 28.93%

 

Average DPS: 6831

28.27% of time spent sub 30% HP

36.36 APM

 

(Sorry for the formatting, Tab delineation and tables don't work on the forums)

Ability, Tooltip, Average Damage, Normal Hit, Normal Crit, Crit Percent, Time between uses, DPS, Percent of Total;
Corrosive Dart, 21757, 34477.02, 1158.26, 1854.98, 43.11%, 24.64s, 1399.04, 20.48%;
Corrosive Grenade, 20430, 32197.4, 1081.67, 1732.33, 43.11%, 24.64s, 1306.54, 19.13%;
Cull, 8200-8638, 9929.77, 1630.09, 2878.84, 63.68%, 8.21s, 1208.82, 17.70%;
Weakening Blast, 11383-11985, 12189.51, 380.81, 609.88, 43.11%, 16.43s, 741.96, 10.86%;
Takedown, 7550-7954, 7555.39, 6019.7, 10049.59, 38.11%, 12.34s, 612.48, 8.97%;
Series of Shots, 12314-12975, 12587.08, 2442.04, 4076.87, 43.11%, 24.64s, 510.77, 7.48%;
Lethal Shot (Poison), 2594, 3962.41, 3157.02, 5056.06, 38.11%, 7.78s, 509.52, 7.46%;
Lethal Shot, 3273-3449, 3258.75, 2596.38, 4334.53, 38.11%, 7.78s, 419.05, 6.13%;
Corrosive Mine, 1195, 2028.15, 538.64, 862.64, 38.11%, 24.64s, 82.3, 1.20%;
Rifle Shot, 2926-3169, 2971.77, 1183.87, 1976.41, 38.11%, 73.93s, 40.2, 0.59%;

In other words, the numbers went up, but despite going up by 40dps its still not enough to even move up in the ranks

Just those stats then: (side effect is a synergy with 220 due to 5 augments of accuracy)

I may change the front page at some point to use these values in a future update.

Much appreciated for the swift response!