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The weird people you meet in Group Finder.


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There are 3 types of players:

1. People who type on a daily basis and can do x words per minute without even looking at the keyboard.

2. People like me who, after years of hunting & pecking, can type out a sentence fairly quickly using only a few fingers.

3. People who have to hunt & peck to type out anything.

 

For #3, and to a lesser extent, #2, the process of trying to type in the chat takes so long that people either rag at you to hurry up and play, or they go off and start attacking long before you can finish typing.

This, when combined with the fact that many people have chat turned off (sometimes accidentally) or have such a small chat box (especially playing at 4k), it's easy to ignore/miss, can explain why people don't "ask" as much as they should.

 

For #1's - I can understand that it's easy to forget that not everyone can type quickly. Patience, Padawan. :)

 

For myself, as a #2, I can usually type fast enough to get a message across - particularly if I type it in small chunks. (So it's more a series of chats rather than a single long one.)

 

Note to #3's - start by simply typing "wait" (enter), then typing "i have a question" or "I'm new" or whatever.

You know, it occurs to me that maybe they should make it so the chat box automatically gets turned on when you load into a group FP, if it's currently off. Heck, maybe even disable that feature while you're in a group FP. I don't think I've ever been oblivious enough to leave it off the entire time, but I do play with chat off a lot and have forgotten for a bit before remembering, in the past. Nowadays though, I'm in the habit of saying hi at the beginning, so I'd notice the abscence of the ability to do that if chat was off.

 

But that could be a significant cause of it. I hadn't thought about typing, but maybe they could give people some sort of "Don't Know Fights" checkbox they can choose before queuing. And then it would give the people in the group some kind of indicator to communicate it. That way they don't have to do a lot of typing for people to know.

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People wonder why there aren't any tanks in queue anymore.

 

So it's around midnight and I decide I'm going to finish up my Galactic Conflicts weekly. So I hope in queue and after a few minutes, boom I get a pop. Athiss MM. So in my head I'm thinking, cool this should be quick. The lineup includes,

 

Me > Level 70 Guardian

Level 70 Slinger

Level 70 Sent

Level 67 Sage Healer

 

The sentinel and slinger had decent 230ish gear, Sentinel had his set bonus not sure about the slinger. On the other head, our Sage (who's also healing) is so undergeared that even with the bolster he was still incredibly weak.

 

Anyway, Flashpoint starts. It goes well and uneventful until the first boss, I still noticed that the healer was hardly healing when the adds were doing damage but didn't say anything. First boss goes by, and oh my god I was barely healed throughout the whole thing. The only reason I didn't die is because I was using my medpacs, adrenals and cooldowns throughout the entire fight.

 

I roll my eyes and decide to roll with it, I've dealt with worse in Group Finder. As we go through the adds to the next boss, the healer and the slinger start flaming me in group chat. Typical, blame the Tank for everything. I ignore it and keep trying to clear the trash. I still noticed the DPS and heals were really weak, but didn't say anything.

 

As we're clearing trash, I have to take a second to pick something up my cat knocked off of my desk. I reach over to pick it up, thinking that nobody's going to pull before me. Big mistake. The sage pulls, leading him to die as a result. He and the slinger immediately start to flame me even harder, telling me to learn to taunt, etc.

 

Finally, we get to the second boss. I tank him in the usual spot as I always do, however my "Move Left" key got jammed and I accidentally moved out of it. Immediately got called a ******* because I got knocked back out of the spot, even though I got back into the spot two seconds later. I guess tanks can't make mistakes, otherwise we'll make people upset that are so obviously trying to get carried through the flashpoint. Once again, no heals through the fight. Would have died without my cooldowns and rotation.

 

There's a lot more but I honestly can't be assed to go into further detail since I'm so tired and annoyed. Apologies for any grammar mistakes, I'm tying this out at like 1:30 in the morning.

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Had someone loving on tanks the other day too. Mandalorian MM, I was the healer, everyone was decently geared and seemed to know what they’re doing. It would’ve been a smooth and uneventful run if it weren’t for those meddling… no wait, for the gunslinger stopping after the first two trash pulls and typing in chat something along the lines of ‘if you do that again you’ll have a problem with support’. We’re confused at first but eventually figure out it’s directed at the tank and he’s complaining about being guarded. The tank tries to explain why, but the gunslinger is having none of it. Do it again and the ticket’s as good as sent!

We move on with mostly silence in chat and no hiccups. Sometime inbetween the tank asks if support got back to the gunslinger yet, the answer is some expletives. Last boss the gunslinger starts to flame the tank as ‘the worst one ever’ (clearly he wasn’t present during that Hammer Station MM run with a tank pulling with force lift, attacking from afar and generally using ‘not holding aggro’ as a def cd).

Still not sure if he had a really bad day, was trying to be funny or hasn’t figured out what guard actually does yet.

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(Second attempt at this - I hit some key and exited the reply function after being almost finished a longer post - so this is a shortened version. Sometimes I hate this damned sensitive mechanical keyboard.)

 

Another sort of tank related story - but more about a healer complaining about it.

Last night I was doing Mandalorian Raiders Veteran with me, level 70 Guardian, 2 other lower level DPS, and an (IIRC) level 70 healer.

M. Raiders is a relatively easy FP (even in Master mode) and so we started off by just hacking and slashing our way through**. But very early on the Healer started typing all sorts of crap in chat about "single target tanks", "front line" and other stuff***.

We all stopped to ask "Who are you talking to?" and it never was too clear just who, but I think it was me because the healer seemed to think that I should "tank" because I was a guardian.

And the short version is that there were many exchanges during the FP that involved things like me saying "there is no tank", "we don't need a tank", "there is no front line" and other things, including the other players telling the healer to "chill".

On a funny note - when we got to the first boss with the dogs, the other DPS didn't know what to do and we wiped. The Healer, of course, went into a tirade about how bad the rest of us were and how no-one knows to attack the dog with the target on it, and blah, blah, blah. But, at least the other DPS gleaned enough info from it to attack the dogs during the next attempt, while I kept the boss busy. I was not really tanking, but I was keeping him busy and using a taunt whenever he'd go after the others. We were successful, but the healer died :D

 

We carried on. We had numerous other chat exchanges and some fun moments. At some point the healer seemed to stop healing - I suppose to "teach us a lesson" - but we just carried on using the usual self heals, defensive CDs, and koltos that we DPS all know how to use since often there actually is no healer.

We completed the FP and the healer left immediately. :)

 

Overall though - the FP was a lot of fun.

 

An interesting note. At some point midway through the FP I thought to myself that I wouldn't want to group with that healer again, so I put him on ignore. During the latter stages of the FP, I noticed the other players replying to things that I hadn't seen, so I'm wondering if putting the healer on ignore meant that I no longer saw his chats****. I'll need to test that out.

 

TL;DR - Yet again I need to say to healers and to a lesser extent to tanks - Veteran mode Flashpoints are designed to be able to be done with any form of group - even without a healer or tank. So don't go into a GF vet FP yapping about who should tank or who should heal.

Also, it's a GF PUG - you should expect to run into "scrubs", etc.

 

** It turned out that one player was by his own admission a "scrub" and the other one was not specifically familiar with MR. So, all out gung-ho. :)

 

*** I would assume this character was some sort of OPs/PvP/NiM player given all the "leet-speak" he kept spewing.

 

**** I know that ignoring a player means you don't see their general "chats" and whispers, but I didn't think it would stop you see "group" chats.

Edited by JediQuaker
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Long-time reader, first-time writer.

 

A month or so back, me a GS, a dps shadow, a VG tank and a sage healer, doing Cademimu SM. No one but me has done it before [of course they don't just TELL you that up front]. We get to the elevator to go down. I tell the tank he needs to run through first and just keep going until we run out of mobs. He runs, we go, then stops for some reason so the healer stops to heal him and they both die, me and the other dps have reached the force field. we tell them to revive and come back. This time the tank makes a left over to where the cinematic plays, and they both die. They revive, then die again for some reason. 4 times now. Finally the healer dies close enough to us that we can safely revive, the tank is asking us 'where do I go?"

"Straight, just go straight until you get to the blue thingie!"

But he dies again just before reaching us, so we decide to just kill the mobs and revive him. This doesn't inspire great confidence in the tank for the boss fight, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that it took a few tries. I will say that the tank never complained, never raged, and by the end had learned the fight pretty well.

***

The other story is more recently doing the rakghoul heroic. I'd never done it before but figured i'd give it a shot on a 69 mara. 4 people in the group, including two 70s and one 50 something. No healers. I ask if anyone's done this before and two say yes, it's easy. Easy, huh.

 

The fungus is not easy. I notice the champ has a channel and when he's done channeling he makes adds so i tell them to interrupt. we try several times, no one but me interrupts and eventually we get out-DPSed and die. Every time. One of the 70s and the lowbie drop group. Just me and a 70 sniper We pull out our comp healers and do it without much problem, except that the sniper [despite me saying several times now to use his interrupt] still isn't interrupting the channel. We finish one fungi and I tell him again, use your interrupt.

 

Sniper says "I'd have to find it, it's not on my tab." He says "can't you just interrupt?"

I tell him that the channel happens too frequently for only one person to interrupt. Finally he finds his interrupt, we go, finish the heroic, he never interrupts once.

He says "tyfg" and I say "when your in groups pve or pvp, use your interrupt."

 

Seriously, level 70 and he doesn't know how to use his interrupt? Kids today, pshaw etc.

Edited by Ardrossan
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Seriously, level 70 and he doesn't know how to use his interrupt? Kids today, pshaw etc.

Lol. :D

 

I can't imagine he's done any serious raiding before. Interrupts was probably one of the first things I learned from serious group content in the first standard MMO I played. I will say though, this game can be a lot harsher about it than some, at times. The cooldown for a typical interrupt in this game is rough.

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I guess but gawd, even for vanilla content i still use interrupt.

 

Also these other two guys who boasted about it being easy and never used interrupt obviously got carried by earlier groups. It might have happened like this:

 

I tried the heroic again today, me on a 53 dps assassin, with a 70 merc healer and comp, and a 63 something or other, and i immediately noticed that the mobs for those fights turned to 70. They kill the lowbie immediately, i stealth out and tell the healer to run away but he just keeps on at it. Finally kills it. He says "why did you stop attacking?"

"the mobs are level 70."

"no, they scale to your level."

We revive the other guy and i decide to try one more time, this time I attack first. again, mobs turn to 70. Evidently they always did that, I just hadn't noticed because I was near that level. I say "They're level 70, so the 70 should drop group."

The 70 says "no its okay we can do it like this." I drop group. A few hours later I did a pug for Shellshock and saw the healer and asked him if they finished the heroic. "Yup, took awhile but np"

 

Yes, I could have stayed and watched as one guy finished the heroic but I don't want to be carried. Also it's boring. I also doubt they did the fungi without help. The nice thing about that heroic is that other players will come by and help you take down the champs.

Edited by Ardrossan
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I q up as fake tank on my full 258 PT dps and get a pop for MM Cademimu. We r blasting through everything, until right after the shortcut following the first boss the healer asks me: where is ur tank gear? We r doing fine, whats the problem i say. And they just leave the group right there and then.

 

Nobody died, everything died exceptionally fast. If that isnt a dream group i dont know what is. Whipped out a 50 comp and finished rest of the FP in 5-10 mins.

 

I just dont get some folks.

Edited by Benirons
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I q up as fake tank on my full 258 PT dps and get a pop for MM Cademimu. We r blasting through everything, until right after the shortcut following the first boss the healer asks me: where is ur tank gear? We r doing fine, whats the problem i say. And they just leave the group right there and then.

 

You're using group-finder, there's an expectation that people que'ing up for certain roles are actually specced for that role. You don't get dps trying to pretend their off-heals are as good as being in heal spec, so why should dps think their taunt is as good an actual tank?

 

The problem is that a flashpoint that should be an easy, simple one for everyone isn't easy for the healer when there's a dps 'tanking'. If you find yourself using your big heals when you shouldn't have to, it's bloody annoying. It's like asking a dps to hit 10k dps in Hammer or get the boss enraging.

 

This is why people can't do MM blood hunt anymore. The 'tank's' aren't really tanks and healers can't prop them up like they can in the easy flashpoints.

 

If you want to run MM as a dps playing tank, that's fine, but it's best not to pug it unless you bring your own healer with you.

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For most of the older FPs I actually don't mind a 'fake tank' when I'm the healer. I just like to know from the start so I can adjust and pay more attention. If they know their way around their dcds they're sometimes easier to heal than a bad tank. :p (the guardian dps comes to mind who took over Blood Hunt last boss after the tank died on me twice in fire - he seriously was easier to heal)
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You're using group-finder, there's an expectation that people que'ing up for certain roles are actually specced for that role. You don't get dps trying to pretend their off-heals are as good as being in heal spec, so why should dps think their taunt is as good an actual tank?

 

The problem is that a flashpoint that should be an easy, simple one for everyone isn't easy for the healer when there's a dps 'tanking'. If you find yourself using your big heals when you shouldn't have to, it's bloody annoying. It's like asking a dps to hit 10k dps in Hammer or get the boss enraging.

 

This is why people can't do MM blood hunt anymore. The 'tank's' aren't really tanks and healers can't prop them up like they can in the easy flashpoints.

 

If you want to run MM as a dps playing tank, that's fine, but it's best not to pug it unless you bring your own healer with you.

 

Regarding blood hunt. One time the healer left for whatever reason, i dont remember. I think i was on my sniper, and pulled out lvl50 dr lokin and we one shot the first boss np, and got a q pop by the time of the 2nd boss and finished just fine.

 

Another time in MM blood hunt, i was on a slinger i believe, group did fine and we got down the 2nd boss. Then for whatever reason the tank left. So i popped a 50 healer comp for last boss cause there was no way we were gonna get a tank joining in. The sage healer actually ended up healing alone cause my silly comp stood in all the bad (thought they would be immune to most aoe like in several other fights, but not this time).

 

So yes, a slinger ended up tanking torch the entire time. And none of us (other than the comp) died. Random pug group.

 

Healers have it so easy in fps when there is a properly geared tank that they get into this feeling of im awesome. U could call this my project to make healers get better. And u know what healers getting upset is actually pretty rare. My DPS pt tanked almost every FP on MM with precious few exceptions (the new ones never pop so never tried e.g.). I do admit though that this would be not pug viable without being well overgeared for the content. I would not put a random pug through an MM fp in trashy at lvl gear, so there's that. In short though, i do this because i have great confidence in my abilities and expect to lead/carry the team to victory especially in the old fps that most everyone knows inside out.

 

Oh, PS. jug and shadow dps tanking would be pretty brutal, so i think only PT dps tanking is viable due to gr8 CDs (especially AP).

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I q up as fake tank on my full 258 PT dps and get a pop for MM Cademimu. We r blasting through everything, until right after the shortcut following the first boss the healer asks me: where is ur tank gear? We r doing fine, whats the problem i say. And they just leave the group right there and then.

 

Nobody died, everything died exceptionally fast. If that isnt a dream group i dont know what is. Whipped out a 50 comp and finished rest of the FP in 5-10 mins.

 

I just dont get some folks.

 

This story seems more like it should end with "...So I was the weird one in GF". I mean, it's cool you have such appreciation for your own skills and they must be warranted if you were able to finish with no problem, but the randos you group with wouldn't know that. I guess it's a bit analretentive on the part of that guy who inspected you when everything was going fine though. Like what would have twigged him?

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PSA: Cademimu can be soloed by a (reasonably geared) dps with their companion with no trouble at the moment so the healer did jump the gun a little if things were going okay.

 

Oh, PS. jug and shadow dps tanking would be pretty brutal, so i think only PT dps tanking is viable due to gr8 CDs (especially AP).

 

okay, now you're really baiting people :D;)

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This story seems more like it should end with "...So I was the weird one in GF". I mean, it's cool you have such appreciation for your own skills and they must be warranted if you were able to finish with no problem, but the randos you group with wouldn't know that. I guess it's a bit analretentive on the part of that guy who inspected you when everything was going fine though. Like what would have twigged him?

My first thought was, healer may have been working overtime, wondering why it's abnormally difficult, and tank thought it was no big deal because they couldn't tell. With skilled healers, it usually doesn't seem like much of anything is happening; it's fluid and plays smooth. It's the more unskilled healers where you notice there's a healer, IME.

 

Could also be healer was obsessive about it for some reason, but... putting myself in healer's shoes, I don't think it would even occur to me to check gear unless something seemed really off. And if you heal for tanks a lot, you're probably going to notice if the "tank" is taking huge damage spikes compared to normal.

 

What healer should have done is said, "Well if you're going DPS, I will too" and promptly switched roles. :p (Actually, I'm not sure if you can inside FPs even with field respec. I don't remember for sure one way or another.)

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Quick funny story.

Queued for GF FP. Nathema popped with a trinity group - so, bad FP, good group.

Things went relatively easily. Then we got to the final boss. Mid-way through the first fight, l and the other DPS died and we noticed that the healer and tank had left. No warning, no explanation.

I and the other DPS re-queued, but after a relatively long wait, the other DPS gave up and so l left too.

 

The funny part - it wasn't until I went to abandon the quest that I noticed that it had been Master Mode! So, I don't know if the tank and healer left because I was the "weird person in GF" or what - I may have been playing too "veteran-ish"; I dunno. :o But things had been going fine until the end.

Edited by JediQuaker
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Quick funny story.

Queued for GF FP. Nathema popped with a trinity group - so, bad FP, good group.

Things went relatively easily. Then we got to the final boss. Mid-way through the first fight, l and the other DPS died and we noticed that the healer and tank had left. No warning, no explanation.

I and the other DPS re-queued, but after a relatively long wait, the other DPS gave up and so l left too.

 

The funny part - it wasn't until I went to abandon the quest that I noticed that it had been Master Mode! So, I don't know if the tank and healer left because I was the "weird person in GF" or what - I may have been playing too "veteran-ish"; I dunno. :o But things had been going fine until the end.

Probably nothing to do with you. :D I think people just hate that flashpoint.

 

I ended up in a Nathema Vet mode once, semi-recently (not even master, just vet!). I normally skip the terrible trio (Nathema, Umbara, and Copero), but I wasn't in a rush and I hadn't actually given it a real try beyond story mode yet, so I figured what the heck. I remember commenting at the beginning I'd never done vet mode before to dead silence.

 

Uneventfully, we get to the first boss and somehow kill him (even though, as I later found out, most of us have very little idea what we're doing in there). Then we get to the second boss... and die because only one of us knows the mechanics and three of us just kill the robots. The guy who knows is all "you're supposed to do X" (not necessarily in those words) and then leaves. I end up literally minimizing and reading a guide, asking if the other two know the fights at all (they don't). So I end up typing from the guide into chat, to explain the fights (that I don't myself know). We manage to beat second boss after that pretty uneventfully and, after some explanation and a little flubbing the first half of the last boss.

 

We then proceed to wipe on the very last boss over and over and over in unique and creative ways of failure. Sometimes just flubbing on having a healing companion out (we never brought in a 4th after losing the one guy - I figured a heal companion would be better). Finally, we're down to our last bits of patience, someone suggests we try to get a 4th in. We queue up, wait a bit, healer of all things pops in (what are the odds?) I figure maybe we'll have a real chance, but nah, we get reamed, possibly worse than when we had a heal companion.

 

Healer leaves right after we fail and it falls apart unceremoniously (though not without some cordiality at the end, after all we went through).

 

The moral of this story is, I now have good reason to avoid Nathema. :p

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I only tried Nathema Vet once. 1 tank, me - dps pt, a healer sorc, and a sniper. So, trinity. After mentioning on entry that I'd never run vet version of this, I was told that 'it's the hardest fp and everyone quits'. It took several tries to beat the first boss. I'd forgotten how it works in SM, and the tank died early on so I was the only one able to taunt it over to the electro thing, but they had to shout at me what to do because I didn't know. For some reason the healer didn't combat revive the tank, I think he was too lowbie to get that ability yet.

 

Finally we beat it. We're on our way to the next boss going down that stairway thing and the tank suddenly stops, doesn't fight. Is he disconnected? No, he's pissed that the slinger keeps attacking first. We wipe at this mob and the tank and sniper argue briefly about protocol, then the tank abruptly quits. We requeue with a comp out, but everyone we get quits as soon as they see it's nathema, so after a bit of this I quit too.

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Did you assure that person that your Companion was LS? :)

 

(And, even better, did you then proceed to make the DS decision?) :rolleyes:

 

It was a very DS-looking DS Jaesa with big glowy sith eyes, I'm not sure I could've made her more evil. And hell yeah, I killed everyone on the spot. :rak_03:

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Too many stories here are about some negative experience.

Let's change that. Weird people you met in GF, in a good way.

 

So, during last double exp event, in the middle of the night for me and apparently middle of the day for most Star Forge players (time difference is ~12 hours) i was drinking some wine and decided i want to run some MM Blood Hunt.

So i queued and suddenly got insta pop. Travel to instance and only then realized it was actually vet mode.

So my group was: me as lvl 70 corruption sorc in full 258, and 3 juggernauts iirc from lvl 32 to 42, two of them tank spec.

We began, and it was actually one of the best of my experience in this game. Everyone knew what to do. We made it from the beginning to last boss like a knife through butter. Final fight took awhile but in the end we made it.

And then one of guys wrote to chat "it's rare to meet such honest-to-god healer, wanna do some more with us?"

So my heart was filled with warmth, pride and childlike joy, and we did both Czerka FPs too before i gone to sleep.

During that we chatted alot, turns out one player was completely new and two others were returning veterans from 2013 or so.

 

So i have added all of em to friends, we ran some vets amd MMs together later, and today they all joined the guild im in.

I love GF, even tho sometimes i really hate it.

Edited by Kraysk
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Too many stories here are about some negative experience.

Let's change that. Weird people you met in GF, in a good way.

 

So, during last double exp event, in the middle of the night for me and apparently middle of the day for most Star Forge players (time difference is ~12 hours) i was drinking some wine and decided i want to run some MM Blood Hunt.

So i queued and suddenly got insta pop. Travel to instance and only then realized it was actually vet mode.

So my group was: me as lvl 70 corruption sorc in full 258, and 3 juggernauts iirc from lvl 32 to 42, two of them tank spec.

We began, and it was actually one of the best of my experience in this game. Everyone knew what to do. We made it from the beginning to last boss like a knife through butter. Final fight took awhile but in the end we made it.

And then one of guys wrote to chat "it's rare to meet such honest-to-god healer, wanna do some more with us?"

So my heart was filled with warmth, pride and childlike joy, and we did both Czerka FPs too before i gone to sleep.

During that we chatted alot, turns out one player was completely new and two others were returning veterans from 2013 or so.

 

So i have added all of em to friends, we ran some vets amd MMs together later, and today they all joined the guild im in.

I love GF, even tho sometimes i really hate it.

That's awesome! :D

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So i have added all of em to friends, we ran some vets amd MMs together later, and today they all joined the guild im in.

I love GF, even tho sometimes i really hate it.

 

In my experience, recruiting though mm FP's and OPS is a great way of attracting new players to a guild.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just healed an MM LI. Let's have one of the DPS comments post-completion to start us out:

 

[4:18:10 PM] [DPS name redacted] whispers: tbh dont think ive ever seen a tank pull in the middle of explanation on every single boss

 

So...yeah. One geared DPS who knew what to do, one undergeared DPS that still knew what to do, me on heals, and a clueless tank who generally didn't listen to explanations very well and didn't even have gear in every slot (and some of the gear was unmodded cartel oranges). That was fun.

 

To their credit, the tank opened by saying that they hadn't done the FP, and that conditioned my expectations accordingly; nobody seemed to get mad, even when the tank pulled mid-explanation (why ask for an explanation you won't pay attention to? whatever).

 

We actually only wiped once, on the first Sav-Rak pull. But our tank died on every fight and had to be brezzed. Tank died on both Sav-Rak pulls (to lava, because of course) and we only avoided enrage by the slimmest of margins.

 

It was definitely a workout! I hope that the tank learned a little from the experience. I will say that they managed to get better at holding aggro as the FP went on, which was very noticeable and a significant improvement.

 

Now, these comments are kinda old, but I never said anything about them, so:

I would agree with this as far as OPs, PvP, and to some extent, MM FPs are concerned, but not for ordinary Veteran FPs.

You sound like the sort of person who would wear a baseball uniform and cleats to play "sand lot" softball at a company picnic. (That is based on an actual occurrence. :) )

Not everyone takes this game all that seriously - nor should they. I'd suggest you only do FPs with a Guild group, or a group of friends, etc. Relaxing and going with the flow doesn't seem to be something you can do. :)

I respectfully submit that this is based on a misreading of my post, or an interest in reading into it something that was not actually in the text of the post. It is not an accurate reflection of reality.

 

First thing: I'm not talking about vets, and haven't in years, because I don't run vets. They aren't fun for me. If I did run vets, I'd have no expectation that I was running with anybody who knew what s/he was doing, and would adjust my own conduct accordingly. Complaining about people who aren't good and don't talk in a vet really would be a ridiculous tryhard thing to do, which is why I don't do it.

 

Pug MM FPs make up the bulk of my time in-game. Most of them are perfectly fine, or at least passable. Expecting perfect competence out of anybody in the game would be silly, and I certainly do not. I...genuinely don't know where you got the rest of that nonsense. Cheating at a company baseball game? Yeah, whatever.

 

My complaint was directed at people who a) don't know what they're doing, b) don't tell anybody that they don't know what they're doing, and c) refuse to read explanations (or turn off chat so they don't see them). I think it's perfectly reasonable to say that these people are bad and that they waste others' time, and that they should not do that, and that it should be socially unacceptable to do it.

 

Look: real teachers push for something called self-advocacy. They try to get high school students to stop needing somebody to hold their hand, whether that person is the teacher or a parent. If a student needs a retake, the student asks for it. If a student thinks that the teacher got something wrong grading, the student lets the teacher know. If a student thinks s/he needs help finding additional study material, or needs additional explanation on a concept, the student asks for it. The support infrastructure is in place, and the teacher is ready to help the student in all sorts of ways, but the student needs to make the effort to use that help. The alternative is something called learned helplessness, where the student does not do anything on their own without repeated teacher help and prompts, never develops their own skills, never learns actively, and basically just sits there like a lump on a log. Learned helplessness is partially the teacher's fault, of course, because it means that the teacher has been too permissive with the student or too willing to do things for him or her.

 

The analogy is limited but, I think, obvious.

So, you can understand how to do content in group finder by doing content in group finder, but you can't do content in group finder because you don't know how, due to you never ever was a part of a group. Or, despite willing to be better, wasn't quick enough to ask how. Moreover, one is toxic now, due to social anxiety ect. Great. :(

 

I can understant this position, but as new player can't agree with it, i think.

I respectfully submit that you did not actually understand the position.

 

If you want to do better and follow instructions, that's awesome! It's fantastic! I run into players like that every day I queue for MM FPs. I am all about helping people to get better at the game. I like having more players in queue, and I like having better players in queue.

 

Obviously there's a first time for everybody in playing content, and everybody needs to learn how to do everything at some point. That's not the issue. I don't mind teaching, and I don't mind carrying. I do mind when people refuse to say that they need help. Let's walk down the decision tree:

 

If you're new to content and say something, you do run a bit of a risk. If you're queued with jerks, the jerks might not be willing to run with you, and you might get kicked. In my experience, the number of such jerks is pretty low, and honestly, you probably don't want to run with them anyway. On the other side of the ledger, you might learn more about the content, the rest of the group might be more patient about your mistakes or inexperience, and so on. Somebody who expresses interest in learning is more likely to make friends and have an enjoyable experience. I have had a good time being the learner, and I have had a good time being the teacher, even when wipes happen. The payoff is pretty good and the risks are low.

 

If you're new to content and DON'T say something, you also run a risk. The problem will probably be discovered pretty soon, especially on mechanic-heavy content. The other players will be unhappy with you for expecting a carry and for failing to let them know. They may still indulge you by trying to teach you, but they are more likely to kick you, because you created the expectation that they would be doing a quick, easy run with no derps. (This is especially the case if somebody asks "anybody not done this before?" and you do not respond.) You are more likely to end up on ignore lists, which is bad for EVERYBODY. If they do not discover your subterfuge, you basically just flail around uselessly, force the rest of the team to carry you, don't learn anything about the content, and fail to improve in any meaningful way. That's the best-case scenario. Frankly, the risks are higher and the payoff is pretty low!

 

I think that that is toxic.

 

The "wasn't quick enough" here is a total red herring, sorry. It's not like there's a thirty-second time limit for letting people know before they think they've been misled. Zone in, say hi, say something. So long as it happens at some point before the first boss or first thing you don't know, you've done everything anybody could possibly ask of you.

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