Just recently resubbed to the game with my wife. Was a loyal subscriber for the first five years of the games' history. Then moved on to other games, but got the itch to come back and wife and I resubbed. Wife decided she wanted to do something nice for me and so got the headstrong apprentice armor and a black dye mod that she was going to give me as surprise gift tomorrow - only to realize that we likely can't afford the in-game taxes on the trade for her to gift it to me. We used to trade items between the two of us since she first joined the game about a year after it launched. So now she's stuck with an in-game armor she doesn't want (and can't gift to me) and so it will just sit in her inventory until hell freezes over. You know what else will not happen until hell freezes over? Either of us buying anything on the cartel market ever again and either of us renewing our subscription at the end of this month. Let me be clear. We LOVED playing this game together. When we both had extended vacation days, we'd sometimes spend 10+ hours doing story missions with whatever characters we played. When we weren't playing the game, we talked about the game. Made jokes about the game (Your name is Weeznod, nobody's going to take you seriously. "The sith want to destroy the Revanites - but they can't find them unless they take the taxi to the secret Revanite compound on Dromund Kas that nobody's supposed to know about. "Oh, you do have the token!", creepy space children in the sweres of Coruscant, etc. etc.) We laughed so hard sometimes, we cried. It was great. The game was great. The stories were great. The characters were great. You've killed that. In an effort to crush a problem YOU created by allowing gold spammers to operate from practically day one, item resellers from reselling items for over-inflated prices (really? items on the GTN for BILLIONS of credits?!!!!). You made it so we didn't have to outfit companions and dumbed down combat (who plays tanks anymore), so crafting became largely pointless, but even then, we were still having fun being back - we played around with our old strongholds, restarted new versions of our favorite characters and started exploring a galaxy far far away all over again. But now my wife can't even give me a gift in game without you taking your cut? What's next utility bills if we leave the lights on in our strongholds? You're already charging for fast travel - but how about some ship maintenance fees? How about GROCERY bills. Bowdaar eats a lot and he's always hanging out in the kitchen of my freighter. But you've managed to suck whatever nostalgia driven fun my wife and I still had for this game out of us. Congratulations. So, for what it's worth I guess I should thank you for saving me $15 a month.

"It's not inconsistent if you consider all his superiors died when the Death Star blew up. " Vader was Palpatine's apprentice. He had no superiors other than emperor himself. You could possibly argue that Tarkin was respected enough that Vader wouldn't go after him - but in ANH you have staff officers talking back to Vader, even questioning him. That doesn't happen when you're the apprentice to the guy who runs the galaxy. "Also, the Emperor learned of the relationship to Vader of the one who did it, so a tighter leash was necessary. Promote him to give him the power he craves but not realize the true meaning of why he only answers to the Emperor now." Which retcons the events of RotS where Palpatine refers to Vader as someone that will surpass him in power and that together they will rule the galaxy. Not "*I* will rule the galaxy and YOU, you have to take sarcasm from staff officers until everyone above you in the chain of command dies." :-) Vader is Luke's Father is a retcon. Lucas tried to fix it - but without redoing specific scenes from the earlier movies, it doesn't work perfectly. Similarly to Leia claiming she remembered her mother (retconned to be some kind of vision through the force) in RotJ and yet it RotS Padme dies shortly after giving birth to her and Han talking in ANH as if the Jedi were some hokey religion and not believing in the Force - the clone wars were only 20 years ago, Han would have been in 10-12 years old at the time, he would clearly have seen Jedi in action and the amazing things they can do.

"I chalk that up to Unreliable Narrator, and how Mentors are always giving their pupils the version of the story that fits their narrative." We literally see Obi-Wan say "Only a master of evil, Darth." I know Lucas struggles with writing dialogue but "Only a master of evil, Lord" is kind of grammatically redundant. He also says that the Jedi's name was Darth Vader. "It's possible that he just no longer wants to acknowledge who Vader was. I always saw it as a title, even back when we were playing with the toys. In the same way as Moff, Grand Moff, Lord, etc, it felt like Obi-Wan was taunting him, in a sense, by not even referring to him using his new given name, but by the informal title." Sorry, but you're reaching. Lucas did more than retcon Vader's origin in Star Wars by the time of the ESB. Consider that in ANH, Vader repeatedly defers to Tarkin. Low-ranking officers openly speak against him (something that definitely does NOT happen in ESB and beyond). Princess Leia even jokes that Tarkin is holding Vader's leash. Vader is NOT the #2 guy in the empire in ANH. He's a thug that the Empire uses as an enforcer - which completely fits Obi-Wan's story of a failed apprentice that switched sides to save his own skin and betrayed better men (including Luke's father) than he will *ever* be.

"What was the point, Really? What was/is the point of this game, any game, any expansions? The Films, Books, Comics and so on. OK you did not like that particular expansion(s)? Other's did." I think there is a HUGE chasm between criticizing an expansion for telling a story I didn't personally care for and criticizing an expansion which RETCONS the events of a previous expansion and tells you that the big payoff-defeat of the Big Bad that you've spent the last 16 chapters in KotFE, 9 chapters in KotET not to mention Ziost working against and supposedly defeating according the everybody you talk to at the end of the last chapter ... ... and then being told. "Nope. You didn't. Sorry. You've got to go kill him again. But THIS time, he's REALLY dead*. We promise." * not just MOSTLY dead. :-) I really love SWtOR. But it does have some major and some minor issues: - crafting's a little buggy (why can't my RT craft heavy armor for a DPS character that looks like TROOPER armor). - companions that join towards the end of the vanilla game seem to not have much development compared to intial companions (and yes, I'm talking to you Yuun, Rusk, Gus Tano, Xalek, Broonmark, Temple and Felix). - some companions brought back for the expansions got a lot more attention than others. For example Drellik vs. Lokin or Tanno Vik vs. Qyzen and some were made major parts of the story Scorpio, Kaliyo, Vette, Gault, Elara, and some were relegated to just being collection quest givers - Lokin, Qyzen, Bowdaar, - Gold sellers are vastly inflating prices on the GTN and crafters are following suit. Early planet armors (Level 10) being sold on GTN for 200,000 credits? Low level mods for weapons being sold for 150K a pop? I mean who is going to put out that kind of money for something that they're just going to level out of in under an hour (even less time if they're a subscriber). - Different Heroic Missions on same planet giving repeats of the same armor pieces that you already have. So if you're trying for a set - forget it. - adaptive armor venders NOT being located on starting planets, so if you wait to go to the fleet to get the armor, you've already leveled out of it. - no crafting trainers until *after* the starting planet but you still have to start by crafting equipment that you've already levelled beyond (oh and no GTN access on starting planets) so new players will already level out of any equipment you could make and sell unless they have a stronghold with a GTN node. - companion affection being a big credit sink game - requiring an operation to finish the Dread Masters storyline with no option to solo it. Most of these would not require major effort to fix. Fix the over-inflated prices on the GTN and CM: Do something like ESO does and have it be that if you buy something on the CM it binds to legacy and you can't sell it on the CM. It's insane that someone can go on the CM buy something with REAL money and then trade it on the GTN for tens of millions (or hundreds of millions of dollars) in in-game currency. Fix Crafting: Give crafters the ability to craft unique armor sets and create visually distinct armor sets that are faction specific for each of the three roles. Tank, DPS and Healer. Replace the mod sellers on the fleet with schematic sellers. Encouraging players to once again purchase in-game crafted items from the GTN. I mean seriously I've played through three characters since the change and I'm literally only upgrading my armor 2-3 times. Finish starting planet around level 20. Got to fleet and by level 20+ mods for my armor. Wait a planet or two. Upgrade armor to around level 40 mods. And by the time the game catches up to my level -- I'm in end-game armor. Also get rid of the legacy gear schematics and drops that aren't supported anymore. If they're not going to fix crafting --- then just get rid of it. It only affects the main toons now anyway since companion stats are based on affection and not gear anymore and most players can play the game without ever crafting equipment or buying crafted equipment on the GTN. Okay enough of a rant.

"You're wrong though - they added more scenes with Theron/Lana/Arcann/Senya. Theron and Lana show up in Onslaught, and they all show up in Echoes of Oblivion." You mean when I kill Valkorian/Vitiate/Tenebrae again after I supposedly destroyed him at the end of KotET? I don't count that because it's just a fake-out from the ending of Eternal Throne. Remember this scene? Senya: It's over. Arcann: You defeated Valkorian once and for all. You: Valkorian's risen from the grave more times than I can count. Are we sure he won't return again? Arcann: I no longer feel my father's presence. We will never see him again. Senya: Now we can look to the future. NOT. :-) Then at the end of Echoes of Oblivion we get another montage that THIS time we REALLY killed him. Then they go back to having all the personality of a statue. Until the Devs decide to pull a JJ Abrams and resurrect Palpatine yet again. I think that's my biggest problem with end-game SWtOR. There is so much potential in the vanilla game to expand on existing characters and the Devs just keep going back to Vitiate and resurrecting him again and again and again.

The Emperor is literally Valkorian simultaneously as the Voice is trapped on Voss. The Emperor is a liar/doesn't share the full details(he certainly doesn't tell the Sith Warrior about Valkorion). Because it's irrelevant. Again why can't the emperor just possess another body and go free the Voice (and or kill Barras) since he clearly doesn't like the fact that Barras trapped him on Voss. "It is correct that Valkorion was a person that he possessed(this is confirmed canon) before technologically uplifting Zakuul, but so is literally every body he uses that isn't his original Sith body. It's never really suggested that some "real" Valkorion is still in there. " When the emperor leaves the Voice on Voss. The real personality re-emerges. "The original Valkorian did not found Zakuul. Overall the two expansions pretty comprehensively answered/closed up questions about the Emperor, his decision-making and what was going on. I think the final battle with Scourge and Kira might've originally been intended to be part of that expansion series, but it was just a final piece of exposition." Which I didn't like because you end Valkorian after KotET. (you even get several emails and comments from npcs stating as such) Then he comes back *again*. "The events regarding the Treaty of Coruscant and Senya's talk about him going distant are intentional points in the lore. Malgus was right, it was ******** for the Empire to stop when on the verge of victory." Not disputing that Malgus may have been on to something. "Darth Marr wasn't going after Zakuul. He didn't know Zakuul exists, or that these attacks were related to the Sith Emperor. The identity of the attackers was unknown. " According to the opening scrawl of KotFE Marr is hunting the forces (who all have powerful force powers) that attacked imperial and republic worlds and then fled into the unkown regions *and* tracking down the emperor - who also disappeared into the Unknown regions. Yeah, no coincidence there. Again, shouldn't be too hard to mobilize the DC to help. "The Emperor's original body is essentially his last(for now) backup plan. He hadn't used it in forever. It is clear though that he can create "copies" of himself as made apparent by Tenebrae's lack of knowledge of his own activities as well as his contempt for his behavior in the Eternal Empire." Again, so why is he upset that Barras trapped him on Voss? "2. All of the members of the Dark Council who died die regardless of what character you play(up until recently). Same for Vitiate. You don't get to choose the join the Dark Council, the SIth Inquisitor always joins the Dark Council (not that this really matters compared to Thanaton being dead thanks to PC disappearing regardless) and kills his predecessor. Vitiate is always killed. " So? All character deaths, events in game are to some extent orchestrated. You were always going to kill Valkorian. Ziost is unsaveable. Malgus will betray the empire. Baras will betray you. Thanaton will hate your guts. Saresh is going to betray you. etc. etc. You can't save both Torian and Vette no matter what you do. You have to go on the robbery mission with Vette and Gault. Heck you can't even turn off alliance alerts that you don't want to progress further and get the next set. I stopped at Lokinn, Bowdaar and Qyzen. My point was that the Dark Council does change in the course of Vanilla game - we didn't need the expansion or the Zakuul hitting the worlds of the Empire to shake up the council - it's always being shaken up. "Only starting from Iokath have we seen player control over things that appear to be carrying forward and not on a predetermined path. " Which would be a good thing if it got backed up by story. I saved Arcann and Senya and now they contribute nothing to the story. Koth disappeared. Theron "betrays" you regardless of what you do. The scions are still massacred. You lose the Gravestone. Vaylin always dies. In fact, given the limited resources of the game if a character is "killable" it will probably mean that they won't spend a lot of time investing in their development going forward. "The fleet put the Alliance in a position of overwhelming dominance, not merely enough to turn the tide. It's not surprising that they'd tone that down, otherwise the player can just choose the winner or choose to rule themselves." The fleet largely didn't factor much into the story once you gain control of it. It would have been nice to have had it for even a little while but your lose control of it pretty much right after getting it. "4. The factions were not just weakened, they lost their fleets and were all impoverished. The Eternal Empire's intervention had more of an impact than decades of war. " Only because the game tells us this. There is absolutely zero reason to say that decades of war couldn't have always diminished both powers - the republic because they were losing and the empire because they were also fighting amongst themselves (which was one of the reasons Malgus stages his little coup). "Malgus's rebellion and the Dread War aren't really on a comparable scale. It'd be a different story if Maglus or the Dread Masters had conquered both Empire and Republic before being defeated, but they didn't. This is a pretty good set up for one faction or the other to secure something like a permanent victory, which if they do take it that way is more convincing than winning just one major battle like Corellia. It also makes it plausible for the player to choose the result." I never mentioned the Dread Masters (don't get me started on a story you have to do an operation to see the conclusion of). As for Malgus - we don't know the extent of his rebellion or what effect it had. And it is explicitly stated in the game when you go to Illum that taking Corellia drained the empire's military power. I would argue that Valkorian and the Eternal Empire weren't even considered when the vanilla game was made. Just like Lucas never intended Vader to be Luke's father in ANH*. Killing the voice did weaken Valkorian - as confirmed by the instability in the former Children of the Emperor. If the "real" Vitiate was still there - still directing events then that wouldn't happened. *"Darth" as a title is a retcon. Easily provable by the following bit of dialogue. Obi-Wan: A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force. The JEDI's name was "Darth Vader". He even says "Vader" was seduced by the dark side. After the retcon it became "Anakin was seduced by the dark side" or some variant. If "Darth" was a title all along the line should read: Obi-Wan: A young Jedi, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil and became Darth Vader, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all but extinct. Vader: I've been waiting for you, Obi-Wan. We meet again, at last. The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner. Now, *I* am the master. Obi-Wan: Only a master of evil, Darth. Again, Darth isn't a title. It's the character's first name. Using Darth as a title in that context changes Obi-Wan's response to: "Only a master of evil, LORD" which is redundant.

"Don't count me among those. My main has well more than 30 comps and it's not a mental crisis when suddenly presented with more." If the companions were meaningful. I'd agree with you. But they are not. I don't need Companion X from another character class story if all they do is show up offer one or two lines of dialogue and then serve as a collection grind to build up affection for a character I am NEVER going to use. I loved the IA storyline. Eckard Lokin was a fascinating character (a 50-50 mix of Dr. Kildare and Elim Garak from Deep Space Nine). But he adds NOTHING to the story once you recruit him again in KotFE. That's not a mental crisis - that's just not liking sloppy lazy writing for the sake of putting a character back. As for "fanboys" ruining your experience by demanding that we return to Pub vs. Imp stories. That's STAR WARS. I don't see a LS Jedi or Trooper abandoning the Republic. Nor do I see The Wrath or Darth Nox working their way to top of the Imperial hierarchy and then chucking it and go play Independent. My DS Sith Inquisitor or DS Sith Warrior wouldn't use the eternal fleet or the power of the alliance to rule as a third faction. He'd conquer the empire and bring the other Darths to heal (and wipe out any last remnants of anyone that previously opposed me). My LS Sith Warrior would never rule third party faction. He fights for the Empire. He's going to bring the alliance in under the banner of the Sith and use it as his personal power base. You don't need a THIRD faction to do interesting politicking. The Darths are regularly shown to undermine each other - even working with the republic at times to do it. And the Republic has at times engaged in some pretty nasty affairs if it suits them (Garza wants the weaponized Rakghoul virus, Saresh, SIS has no problem using mind controlled Imperial agents to do their bidding, Nomen Karr's hardly a paragon of virtue, the Jedi Council's mind-wiping of Revan (and the hint that he wasn't the only one) etc. etc. Also a legitimate third faction - would require substantial recoding (so that if you go back to an old planet) both Pubs and Imp forces attack you. I think at one time in the very early stages the devs were thinking of making a third faction (BH and Smuggler) but then decided to fold them in with Empire and Republic - maybe because they couldn't think of a way to make a neutral force user that would be a different story than a LS Sith or DS Jedi.

"1. Aside from the Voice, Vitiate also was Vitiate in the Jedi Knight storyline when he is killed. Voice is just one of his means of communication. So the Voice being trapped is not what Marr is talking about, as that is relatively recent." The Voice specifically tells the SW that he (the Emperor) could not physically leave the Dark Heart because the host body was trapped, nor could he just transfer and control a new host while the current "voice" was still occupied. If the Emperor still existed in a physical form separate from the Voice - it would have simply been a matter of going to Voss, killing the trapped voice and then selecting a new voice. Canonically the SW story finishes a little before the JK story because the Wrath gets an email telling him that the Emperor's new voice (not Vitiate himself) has been killed the JK. This is also explained in the later chapters when we learn that the emperor's real body is some place hidden. "The Emperor was Vitiate and Valkorian at the same time, but primarily focused on different ones at different times. He'd been distracted with goings on regarding Iokath and Zakuul for about a hundred years iirc. There's also some outside of game lore from books that got wrapped up here." This disagrees with the established canon (which is stated by Dark Council members, Revanites, and other Sith) that says that the emperor (Vitiate) hasn't been seen in years. It seems more likely that the emperor can only inhabit one host body at a time and that while not in use that body is preserved in stasis somehow. "The Treaty of Coruscant is basically a combination of Revan's influence and Valkorian starting a family." Except that Valkorian ruled Zakuul for centuries (he's referred to as "the Immortal Emperor") before he decided to have a family with Senya. It seems more likely that a real person named Valkorian who was powerful with the force founded Zakuul and was eventually possessed by the emperor during the time when the Emperor was absent from the Sith Empire (which could be 100+ years). "Senya talks about Valkorian growing distant. This is him relaunching the war and his plan to genocide the galaxy and achieve godhood." Or it could be that those were moments that the Emperor was exerting more of an active control of the Valkorian. "I'm not sure what the confusion regarding Thexan and Arcann is here. Their forces are specifically unknown when they go on their rampage. It's a test-run. " I think you missed my point. According to the cinematic, Arcann was scarred when he and Thexan attacked Korriban. And the subsequent presentation of the flags and lightsabers to Valkorian - and Thexan's deah at Arcann's hands. Arcann is already scarred when you meet him in Chapter 1 of KotFE and Thexan is already dead. That means the crushing attack on Korriban has already occurred. So why would Marr claim to have difficulty convincing the other dark council members to mobilize to go after Zakuul? "You can go from level 1 to Echoes of Oblivion and not really change anything significant. This is not particular to KoTeT and KOTFE." I can topple members of the Dark Council. I can join the Dark Council. I can "kill" the emperor. I can liberate or take Correlia and Balmorra. I can release the Esh-Ka from Belsavis. I can topple the Star Cabal and either defect to the Republic, stay with the Empire or become a free agent. I can assassinate key members of the Republic. Save/Kill Revan. Stop Darth Angral from destroying Tython. End the Civil War on Alderaan. "2. Much of the galaxy is neutralish. While the Alliance pulls from the Empire and Republic, it basically pulls from everyone to become a significant third faction power. Enough to sway the tide." Only while you have the fleet. Which the game takes away from you. Also it makes no sense for a LS JK, JC, RT to turn on the Republic. Becoming a galactic big honcho isn't something that would appeal to a Smuggler or a Bounty Hunter. And a dark sided character might turn on both the Empire and the Republic - but without the eternal fleet that is going to work and with the eternal fleet its too easy. game over. "3. Yeah, that's my point. Dark Council is all dead, the writers need time to replace them. 5 year timeskip makes that easier. " We've seen replacement of DC members without needing a whole new faction. The very nature of the dark side drives this. Barras replaces Vengean. Arho replaces Barras and Arkous replaces Arho. Nox replaces Thanaton. Darth Decimus' predecessor is killed just before the game starts. Darth Acina rises to the dark council during the game - and then to become Empress in the time jump. Sajar defected to the light side prior to the start of the game. And that's just off the top of my head. "4. Both forces are now on the brink of collapse. Which is unnatural if they were warring normally, they wouldn't cripple themselves trying to get the upper hand, and having both their capitols devastated is downright odd." Barras orchestrates a slave revolt on Korriban to undermine a rival, kills key imperial officials to enable his own rise. The Dark Council tolerates Thanaton and Darth Nox's internal war, not to mention Barras' conflict with the Wrath, Jadus plans to kill the other DC members and rule himself until the IA stops him. Malgus stages his little coup. And that was before Revan came back and conned both sides into attacking their respective force training worlds. We really didn't need a third faction to weaken the empire/republic.

"1. it wrapped up the story arc of the sith emperor and functioned as exposition for various mysteries surrounding him(some of which were hinted at back when the game first launched)." I would counter that it introduced Zakuul, and Valkorian's (new Emperor Host body's) family then ended with a great battle in which you "destroy" the emperor (you even get the obligatory email saying that he is dead) - only to have to do it all over again in "Echoes of Oblivion". Then all the characters I met (Vaylin, Koth, Arcann), alliances I forged, etc. get sidelined after that expansion ends. It also creates a plot hole if you play the SW storyline because Marr states that the Emperor was absent for much of their recent history (he was off being Valkorian) ... but in the SW story you find out that Baras trapped the Emperor in a host body on Voss and couldn't extricate himself without the SW's intervention. So what was going on with the host body "Valkorian" at that time? How did Senya, Thexan (who would still be alive at this time), Arcann and Vaylin not notice that "Daddy" is basically a potted plant. And then there's the problem with Thexan - the cinematic tells us that Thexan died *after* conquering Korriban (Arcann has already been disfigured) and Arcann is shown in his disfigured state when he kills Thexan and in KotFE chapter 1 - *but* Marr claims that he can press the Dark Council into going after the Emperor? With the exception of Zakuul (and the time skip)- fundamentally what would have changed if we skipped KotFE and KotET and gone right from Ziost to something like Echoes of Oblivion? "2. It established the PC as an independent power who can swing the war in one direction or another. This is curious. Losing the eternal fleet was predictable as the game's plot couldn't move on without getting rid of it. But now the player choices here are creating a dramatic bifurcation in the "timeline". Previously it was assumed that an analog for all 8 class stories existed(and codexes will mention them). This is why we have things like the Silencer superweapons being mentioned when playing as Republic. Makes me wonder if they're aiming to wrap up the game with the players determining the final outcome for each character. " I get that - but it doesn't really make sense. The game establishes that the Empire and the Republic are crippled following Zakuul's invasion of our part of the galaxy - and most of the alliance forces come from disaffected Republic and Empire troops (and some people from Zakluul). We've got a single base. Maybe a few thousand troops and the Eternal fleet - and with the latter's destruction we're no more a force to be reckoned with than the average pre-Zakuul dark lord (Heck, the Sith Lord Grathan helps orchestrate an invasion of Dromund Kass in one of the earliest Heroics. "3. It allowed them to have a 5 year timeskip that could have them rotate a lot of the NPCs, giving lower rank NPCs we knew from the past "time" to get promoted. The Dark Council in particular had been decimated in the base game." The Dark Council was getting decimated long before the time skip. Barras (after he succeeded Vengen), Thanaton, Jadus, Decimus, are all killed during the Vanilla game. Arho is klled on Illum. Arkous is killed in SoR. "4. It drove both factions to the edge in a way that never would've occurred while fighting normally or if one side or the other was winning conventionally(again possibly suggesting that things might be wrapping up)." I don't think we can say that. The Empire could clearly be explained as being weakened following the events of the vanilla game. Imperial Intelligence is gone. Several prominent dark lords have been vanquished and their forces lost in costly in-fighting. The game even tells you that the taking Corellia cost the empire a lot in manpower and ships (only to lose it again if on the LS story), Malgus' little civil war. The Republic has similarly lost a lot. Various superweapons, the defection of a big chunk of spec force (trooper story), the actions of the Children of the Emperor, the events of chapter 2 of the SW story where you assassinate key Republic strategists, etc. "It has a number of foregone conclusions and few decisions(like killing Saresh, but then, doesn't everyone kill Saresh?)" Not my Jedi knight or Trooper, but the my sith warrior did. :-)

Just returning to the game from a long absence. I leveled a Sith Warrior (because I *really* liked that story) all the way from Korriban to Illum, RotHC, SoR, KotFE, KotET, Jedi under Seige, Fractured Alliances etc. and then finally Dantooine. Did all the flashpoints, all the sidequests, got my crafting up to level 700 etc. Spent time building my companions (including the new companions from KotFE and KotET) affection up. I even did the Lana romance since I figured that was likely to be more supported than either Vette or Dark/Light Jaesa. And I'm struck by the realization that it was all for nothing. Theron, Lana, Senya, and Arcann seem to have disappeared after Fractured Alliances. My old companions that returned really don't say much beyond the cutscene or two where they come back. The War with Zakuul is little more than a footnote - to justify the galaxy being resource poor (could just as easily have been the result of the continued Empire-Republic war). I 've rejoined the empire and now run around the galaxy with entirely new companions (I know it makes sense from a budget reasons since coming up with voiced dialogue for all the possible returning companions would be prohibitive) but it still leaves me with a hollow feeling. I almost wish that I'd never done KotFE and KotET and just skipped to Jedi Under Siege. I'm one of those players that can replay the original game a dozen times - just to tweak and play with the story and the consequences of different choices. I don't like grinding for gear or mats, etc. It just seems to me that NOTHING I really did in KotFE and KotET mattered. Vaylin still dies. Valkorian comes back (again), none of my choices really tip the balance for or against the empire or republic. All I feel I've really done is played a story with no lasting consequence whose principle characters will likely be sidelined or ignored in future expansions in favor of new companions and I've gathered about 20+ new followers - who are little more than a cut scene or two - or someone I can dump collected resources on in the hopes that the RNG gives me a piece of cool armor as a result. Am I missing something?

I got duplicate companions and companions that I did recruit in KotFE & KotET (Broonmark) and Iokath (Quinn) are showing as not being recruited. So basically all the in-game currency I spent raising their affection to above 30 for crafting is lost.

THIS above. Is exactly why I just cancelled my subscription. I have truly enjoyed the game from launch (was even one of the Beta testers) - but since the advent of the Fallen Empire storyline I have lost interest. My Trooper is thrust into what is essentially the same cookie-cutter storyline as my knight, as my Inquisitor as my Warrior as my agent. Crafting is dead. Some of the changes they made to crafting were good (getting rid of 6 different purple versions of each armor type), but now I can't craft DPS heavy armor (it's either Asylum or Aegis). New companions? They lack any sense of substance. Even grinding to get the old ones back is worthless because they essentially add nothing to the story and their roles are easily filled by the generic companions you pick up.

Okay just finished Chapter 16 with my Trooper character. My wife has taken two characters through the story - playing a Smuggler and a Jedi Consular. My thoughts ... The GOOD 1. The story has a fairly epic "feel" to it and there were significant plot turns that did keep me interested throughout. 2. The chapter on Odessan with Satele and Marr was interesting (although I think it worked better from a force user perspective than a non-force user perspective). 3. The NEW npcs: Koth, HK-55, Lana, Theron, etc. are fairly well written. Not KotOR, Dragon Age of Mass Effect quality but still engaging. And the scene with HK-55 exterminating the vermin infesting the Gravestone is a hoot even on the 2nd playthrough. THE BAD 1. Limited re-playability. Way too much of the story is the same if no matter what class you are. My wife playing her smuggler really didn't see that much difference between that experience and playing as her consular. That and I'm sorry but who wants to slog through running all the heroics on all the planets over and over to build up resources for every toon you have - when it's the SAME story? And I say that as someone who has played through Dragon Age Origins about 10-12 times and Mass Effect about 8 times and KotOR about 15 times. 2. Too many characters. I liked the concept of the recruitment missions, but it should have really be limited to your former companions with each having a unique story (yes, I know time constraints and resources limit what you can do). But to paraphrase the deranged Chasind whining outside the Lothering Chantry in DA: Origins "Better to just slit their throats than relegate them to a quick fetch and recruit mission that doesn't really add anything to the story and doesn't capitalize on their importance to the main character." My wife loved Qyzen during her playthrough as a Consular - and was hoping that when she recruited him in KoTFE it would add something to the story - NOPE. Even the return of romanceable characters (as seen on YouTube videos) Vette, Kaliyo and Jorgan was somewhat lackluster. We played through several star fortress missions to get supplies and NPCs - but they added nothing to the story. Just another bland companion that added nothing to the playthrough. My wife did more of the Star Fortresses than I did and she didn't see how it changed or affected her story more than my experience. If we keep playing you can be sure that we're not wasting time doing them again. Nico Okarr - bland. No real mission. Not part of the story in any way. Just a dual wielding gunslinger companion. Which would great if I didn't already have Vette, Temple, or any number of other companion characters with already high influence that I could readily use. 3. Difficulty or lack thereof. I got through the game fairly easily with my purple level "Outlander" gear (which by the way is hideous for most of the characters). No need to upgrade to glowing or radiant gear. So what is the point of getting it? I had fairly high influence with Koth, Senya and Lana (mid to high 20s) and they were perfectly capable of killing just about anything (or keeping me healed so that I could). 4. Special Arcann slaying weapon - no, I want to use the gun, lightsaber, etc. that I spent time getting the credits to buy and modify. 5. Not co-op play. My wife and I loved playing through the starting story ---> Ziost together. Sure there were points where we would have to do our solo story, but we still got to do many missions together. That's gone in KotFE. My experience playing my Trooper all the way from lvl 1 on Ord Mantell ---> Illum ---> Makeb --->Rishi ----> Yavin ---->Ziost ----> KotFE and comparing that to the experience my wife had playing her insta-level 60 consular was largely the same. So why bother with the legacy game anymore? If Elara, Nadia and Kira, and Risha all come back and get the same treatment as Jorgan, Kaliyo and Vette - a once-off and then no more mentioning in the story, what was the point in pursuing that romance? At least Lana talks to you regularly during KotFE. The story is fine for one play through. But I can't imagine doing it multiple times with different characters. And I can't see why I should bother taking my other toons (who've completed their origin story) through Illum-->Ziost, because nothing that I do on those planets affects the story in KotFE. Help a guy out Bioware ... I want to stay subscribed, but you're not making it easy for me.

I think you guys hit the nail right on the proverbial head. I've only just finished my first run through on KotFE, but I am already dreading the idea of carrying all eight of my toons through the whole story - particularly when there are little more than cosmetic differences between say the Trooper's experience and Bounty Hunters. I would add a couple of more points. Point #1: Overabundance of NPCs: Sorry Devs - it's a great story and I am enjoying it - but the sheer number of NPCs to now track and gain affection with is ridiculous. I like the fact that old characters are returning - but they need to return in a way that doesn't overshadow the new characters. Now that combat ability is tied to affection rating. I mean after levelling up to 50 with Jorgan, Yuun and M1-4X (all with affection ratings near or above 30), why on earth would I run missions with Koth, Lana, Nico and Senya? And if I *did* run missions with those npcs and built up their affections - why would I bother running up affections with Vette, Talos, Xalek, Bowdaar, Gault etc? If I want a sniper, I'm going to go with my affection 34 Jorgan vs. my affection rating 2 Gault every single time. and that doesn't even count the new NPCs you recruit from the Star Fortress Missions .... YIKES! Mass Effect and Dragon Age did a much better job of giving us a reunion with the old characters (and even bringing some of them back as squad mates) than this. If the characters come back they should be a part of the main story (these were my allies - I defeated the Sith, conquered the republic etc. with these guys!) - think how they handled Jorgan, Scorpio, Kaliyo, Vette and Gault - not Talos, Bowdaar, Qyzen and Yuun. If that means that some of them don't come back - either drifting off or dying nobly at the hands of the Empire of Zakuul then so be it (Can Skadge be stepped on a walker ... I'm just sayin ... ) Point #2: Ugly armor and weapons ... I've been a subscriber since launch (even during the Beta actually) and the one thing I looked forward to was getting enough commendations (remember when they were planet-specific? I do!) to get a really nice set of armor. But now when we get to the level 65 purple gear - the JK's armor looks just like the Sith Warrior's (and the armor doesn't look very Jedi or Sith-like). The "Outlander" Trooper armor is okay (except for the clipping issues on the glowing crystal version of the helmet). In fact, I hardly see anyone actually running around in the armor - they mostly use Outfit Designer - so why bother having the armors at all? Why not just allow people to buy the mods, armorings, and enhancements and then put them in the armor of their choice (you can still keep outfit designer for the people that want a wardrobe to switch around). In fact, why not make the JK armor level 65 rating 208 gear look like the start-at-60-level character's armor? I might be in a minority here - but I really like the armor - but I don't want to play a start-at-60 character who has no affection or love interest backstories in KotFE just to get it. And the arcann-specific weapon/lightsaber is a bad idea - I want to beat Arcann with the weapon that I got on the GTN or in the CM. I want to see him fall before my Jedi Consular (armed with the apprentice lightsaber) or my Sith Warrior (and his blademaster's saber) or my Trooper (and his VL-S10 assault rifle) or my smuggler and his nightlife westar blaster pistol - but noooooo! I have to use the special Arcann-killing weapon the game gave me. What they should have done was have you get a weapon CRYSTAL that could then go into any weapon .... Oh and please make the introductory customizable armors (Initiate, Trainee, Acolyte ...etc. ) binds on equip rather than pickup - that way I could have my higher level toons buy them for new toons. By the time my new toon has enough crystals to purchase them - they're way beyond the level of the armors and so what's the point? Sorry if that seems like a rant ...I don't mean it to be. It's a great game and I am enjoying it.

Ditto. Please fix this. It looks silly.