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BobFredJohn

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  1. Interesting run on MM hammer station recently with my jugg tank, with a sorc healer, mara and sniper. As mentioned in my previous post, I am not too fond of the people who do unnecessary skips (where the skip takes longer than the pull) or unnecessary LOS. As such, when we get to the large pull that everybody LOS's for no good reason, I just tank it like I used to in the good old days. After a few seconds the group who is stood around the corner seems to notice I am not brining the enemies to them. healer: "move" me: "no ty" The group them comes out from around the corner and we finish the pull. carry on through the mission, eventually getting to the other pull that is often LOS'ed, the group just before the lift that can be sliced. I pull, the sorc and sniper join in, the mara is still around the corner and doesn't join in, we kill the pull. mara: "tank is new" me: "nope" sniper: "I think hes oldschool" me: "yep" mara: "no, he doesn't know how to do this mission" me: "*sniper name* is correct, joined in 2.0" mara: "I been playing since beta" healer: "I prefer it this way, plus its nostalgic" sniper: "plus its nice to have a decent tank in a PUG for once" me: "ty" we do second boss, get to the two turrets at the bridge. It is red by the time we get there, so I decide we will just kill them while we wait. I pull, sniper and sorc join in, mara does nothing. Bridge comes back, mara crosses it and starts fighting the elite at the other end. in the time it takes us to kill both turrets and catch up to the mara he has the elite down to half health, so not much of a time save by skipping them. If he had joined in attacking the turrets it would have been even faster. get to final boss, sniper gets knocked off by boss knock-back, so its just me, healer and mara. The mara completely ignores adds, leaving me and the healer to kill them. We kill and loot. me: "dps, playing since beta, doesn't kill adds" mara: "I prefer to just kill the boss" healer: "I think the tank prefers to do it properly" sniper: "lol"
  2. Coming back after a long time off, played through a few missions with my sniper and jugg tank. After completing the vet and master weekly's on my sniper, and master weekly on my jugg, there seems to be a real inconsistency in groups. with my sniper sometimes I get groups were the tank grabs aggro and groups up enemies, with dd's following kill order and healer cleansing - then I get groups where tank and other dd are tunnel-visioning the toughest enemy while healer runs around like a headless chicken, but never going anywhere near the tank. The weirdest thing - nobody ever says anything, in the groups where everything is perfect, everyone is silent (understandably, there's nothing to discuss). But in the groups where I am constantly trying to peel off a healer who never thinks to drag the enemies towards the tunnel-visioning tank, everybody just carries on in silence, as if everything is hunky-dory. I even make comment sometimes like "Why is tank using overload on CD" or "I haven't played in a while...does kill order still apply to dd's in groups?" I still get no answer. Then my tank runs, First was Kaon with a group where the dd's followed kill order, so I was able to tank properly and everything ran pretty smoothly. I did mention twice in chat that "the mercenaries can be interrupted" but to no avail. Still, we got through just fine so whatever. Next is a mission I have never seen, first boss is a droid, second is 2 jedi, 3rd is a jedi on a big round arena with open edges. I mention I am new when I zone in, nobody says anything. The dd's both tunnel-vision the strongest enemy in the pulls, so my rusty tanking is not enough to keep things under control, but healer heals through all the crap (without ever complaining about the tanking or dd's). We get to first boss, I wait for instruction on mechanics as I did say I was new at the start. After waiting about 20 seconds I just pull and hope for the best. Have to pop my DCD's regularly when some big blue circle obliterates my health every once in a while, but we get through. At second boss I wait again for instruction, but nobody says anything so I just pull, we burn one down then the other. We complete with me and a dd dead on the floor after receiving no healing for some time, while we res and continue healer says "I suppose we were meant to kill them at the same time" to which a dd says "I guess so." It seems the reason I am getting no advice is because everybody else is new too. At 3rd boss we beat it, though the last little bit is hectic. At the end the healer says "phew, that was chaos at the end there" - at which point the dd who has been silent all mission writes out instructions for all 3 bosses, then ends with "for future reference." Then a tython run, one of my favourites. I get the feeling someone is new but didn't say as at the first boss we only get 3 of the reinforcements shields down at a time, then run around frantically trying to take out the 4th. Get to second boss and that is fun as they have changed the droids since I last did it (droids used to all be the same as the first 2 who were with the boss). The lack of a cleanse of the dot when boss comes out of stealth makes things interesting, but nobody dies so who cares. At final boss both dd's die to the first rock fall, it nearly catches me out too as last time I did that mission the boss jumped to the middle of the room before doing that. Me and healer 2-man it while our combat res debuff disappears, eventually get a dd back up and finish the fight. But - the weirdest thing of all - the obsession with shortcut and skips everybody seems to have. To the point where some are slower than pulls. I got so fed up with it on my sniper that at one point, where the other 3 starting trying to jump on some rubble to skip 2 silvers and a standard, I just started shooting, killed the enemies then went and stood in front of the next pull and wrote "if a dd can solo a pull faster than you can skip it, is it really a shortcut?" No answer.
  3. Coming back from a long time away, I think over a year and a half. Things seem to have changed a lot. I have been levelling and gearing up my jugg tank and sniper, who are both now at full 306, but it took a lot of fp's and a lot of frustration. Including: The vast majority of damage players not following kill order, the times I brought it up I never got a response. Most of them just tunnel visioning elites the entire mission. Also it seems ignoring adds in boss fights is common now. Damage players pulling before the tank in order to do pointless LOS pulls, including my jugg tank being told off by a sniper for not LOSing the second pull in hammer station (I have noticed everybody seems to do that for no reason), then vote kicked for not LOSing the third pull. Damage never using interrupt, healers never using cleanse, tanks tunnel-visioning 1 enemy in each pull. Yet every time I mentioned this to people I either get no answer or a "it doesn't matter" (yeah apparently interrupting malgus at the end of FE doesn't matter). Some examples: Jugg tanking on FE, bounty hunter boss, I ask "easy way or quick way?" before I pull, healer says "I want to finish fast" and dps pulls so I start tanking with no intention to use turrets to fend off the ship. Both dps don't interrupt boss flame attack, healer gets overwhelmed and we wipe. I ask healer why he agreed to fast fight if he cant heal through it and he says "you should follow mechanics" I ask him if he knows what I mean by describing the boss mechanics as "fast or easy" and says he doesn't. When I tell the dps to interrupt flame attacks I get told to stop complaining and just tank. Hammer station with my sniper, The tank is not holding aggro, I watch his animations and hes clearly dps spec. I mention it to him and he says he can still tank like that. I tell him he probably cant as his gear is 187 and the other dps, a sorc is 306. He says it makes no difference. Healer starts demanding guard, when I say "healer doesn't need guard" he tell us he will not heal until he gets guard. I tell him "you can either trust I know about tanking or I can waste ages explaining game mechanics to you" to which he tells me that healer needs guard. I give up. We get to the first boss healer refuses to do anything, tank dies at 3-stack of beam and we wipe. Healer quits group, I get healer comp and we pull again, sorc tanks the entire fight as - like I predicted - 187 dps cannot hold aggro off 306 dps. I cant control comp to do beam mechanics properly so we wipe, on run back to third attempt we get a new merc healer in 306. Despite healers best effort the tank dies in the 6-second period that he has aggro from his taunt, doesn't follow cleanse mechanic and we wipe. The tank-dps quits group and we requeue, get a proper tank and complete fp easily. Mando raiders, every time I run this every group seems to kill either consular or smuggler first. After I point out knight should be killed first, everybody generally ignores me except one time a dps answers with "lol why?" me: "he has no aggro table and has a knock-back stun thing, so he can be irritating and should be dealt with first" dps: "lol it doesn't matter who we kill first" on a side note, on every single run of mando raiders every single dps (except me on my sniper) continues to tunnel-vision final boss instead of shooting turrets. Again when I brought it up when tanking it with my jugg I get no answer. Tython, I join with my sniper in a group who are on the last boss. We pull and its clear the tank is not tank specced, both the tank and other dps stand in the circles and, when we wipe, tell the healer to heal them. When healer apologises for being undergeared (280) the tank puts vote kick on them. I point out there was no problem with the healing, but get no answer. We wait around for another healer when I suddenly get a whisper from the healer we just kicked: Them: "good luck with those 2, dw I wanted out of there" me: "what do you mean?" healer: "those 2 think they are doing everything right and kick anybody who disagrees, the guy you replaced was kicked for arguing with tank and I am not the same healer the group started with" me: "but they were ignoring mechanics and tank is not tank spec" healer: "I know but kicking me means I don't get a lockout" me: "so why do they think their right?" healer: "because they are full 306 gear so they must be pro" me: "well ill try once more but this doesn't sound good, thanks for the warning" healer: "lol gl" Another healer joins, we pull, other dps dies in random circles at start, healer combat reses and the dps and fake-tank die in the first round of circles, they are both dead with boss around 70-75%. Me and healer die with boss at 30%. Vote kick on new healer, reason: undergeared. new healer: "what?" fake-tank: "you cant heal well enough for this" me: "try following mechanics, me and him managed to do almost half the fight with just the 2 of us so he cant be that bad" vote kick on me, no reason. both kicks succeed.
  4. After a long time away I had a incident where I thought I was the weird one. I haven't played in over a year so upon logging in I boot up my favourite character (jug tank) and spend ages fiddling around with my UI layout (it had gone back to default and the saved one I had has gone). I then decide to start off easy as I am likely to be rusty so I queue up for the easiest style flashpoints (the ones that don't even need trinity). Its hammer station with 3 dps guys one of them is a sorc, I don't know the other 2 (explain why in a second). By the time I load in the first pull is dead and by the time I get over to the group they are in the middle of pulling the next, the sorc is on the verge of death by the end of the pull. He heals up and I leap into the big pull on the corner, start trying to tank at which point I realise I have ****ed up. When re-doing my settings after my time off I forgot to switch on the cooldown text. This is a big issue for me because I use it to help with my ability usage. As my tank has no alacrity my global CD is 1 second, and the cooldown text is in seconds so I tend to just glance and my quickbars and use the number to mean "do this many abilities before this one" for example if my crushing blow has a 3 over it I know I need to use 3 abilities before I next try a crushing blow. Of course without that switched on I am a fish out of water and start frantically pressing every button just to get my character to do something. I then notice my health, down to 20%.....but because I haven't played in a long time I had completely forgotten my quickbar layout and was frantically searching through to find out what I had bound my DCD's to. I finally find them and pop a couple just as the last enemy goes down. We carry on and I have a habit of setting a quick pace, one which the sorc is very happy with. We kill first boss, someone sensible in the group does cleansing for me (or they removed it from that fight I don't know because I ****ed up the scaling on my debuff bar and couldn't see if the laser beam was stacking that debuff on me) but we got through the fight and I barely lost any health so all happy there. Then me and the sorc set a fast pace and are 2-manning all the way up to the second boss. Its during this I realise another mess-up. The sorc likes to pull ahead of me and I jump in and try to control aggro. This is where the target of target thing comes in handy - I usually put it right above my quickbars so when I glance down to check my CD's I can also spam tab a couple of times and make sure its my name on the t-of-t screen. Of course because it wasn't switched on I instead have to result to another method - run around and see if all the enemies turn to look at me. So there I am in the middle of fast-paced PVE running around like a PVPer. We get to the second boss and wait for the other 2 to catch up, then a smooth run to the end. The sorc even thanks for the fast run while I apologise for the poor tanking The sorc sends me whispers after asking what I mean poor tanking - he reckoned I did ok - and I mentioned my ****-up with the CD display on my quickbar and my t-of-t window but he points out I held aggro well and he rarely ever saw anybody else being shot at so I cant have been too bad. Much to my surprise he then invites me to group and asks to run some more fp's while commenting he reckoned my tanking was the best hes seen in a while. By now I have turned on CD text, t-of-t and increased the scale of my debuff bar so I can keep an eye on the important stuff. hopefully he is wrong, I hate to think the standard of tanking has dropped so far that a rusty player with an incorrectly set UI can keep up with tanks of today. Still at some point I will do some runs with my dps and healers and judge for myself - should be fun.
  5. The first few seconds of the fight the dogs will be on the tank, that's normal. They switch target every few seconds, and as the tank pulls he is the only one on aggro table for the first few seconds of dog aggro. So dogs attacking tank for first few seconds is normal and there is no need to kite them at all, sabre ward, or reactive shield is more than sufficient. After a couple seconds dogs will probably peel off (later on ill explain why I say probably). At this point any melee dps should start kiting away, and of course rdps and healers will be stood at range anyway. Then there is the aggro dump, every once in a while the boss will freeze the tank and aggro someone else. That will always be the healer as dps wont have hit the bloke at all (if they are doing it right). The freeze is 2 or 3 seconds, and if the tank taunts immediately after it wears off the bloke moves about 12m from the tank. I have no idea how big the red circle is but if we assume about 6m radius that means dogs need to be about 18m from bloke. That's basically the entire fight, healers and dps stay inbetween console things, or that general area, and tank stands somewhere on raised platform bit, tank taunts on aggro dump. If you tank the bloke exactly where he starts the fight then his red circle wont even reach over the edge of the raised platform, giving plenty of room for dps and healers to kill dogs. That's just the mechanics, as for making the fight as easy as possible I like to move to the kolto behind and to the left of the bloke so I can sort out my own health in tacticals. Now for the pain in the *** bit. It is possible for dogs to randomly target the tank. Sometimes during the fight a dog will run at the tank and end up in blokes red circle. That's caused by bad RNG and there is f-all anybody can do to stop it, but any decent tank will just pop a dcd and carry on regardless, the dog will soon bugger off back to someone else. It is also possible for the dogs random aggro to prevent it peeling away from the tank at the very start of the fight. I did at one point, after pulling the bloke and dragging him to my kolto, continue tanking the bloke and a dog for a fairly long time, the dog only went away on bosses second freeze. It is also I assume possible (but I have never seen it) for RNG to make both dogs attack the tank later on in the fight, again that's nobody's fault, just bad luck. The tank should just pop a dcd and ignore the dogs (unless its tactical with no healer then they might need to run to another kolto to cover the extra damage). Basically theres no need to kite dogs, no need to move bloke (but its nice to have him in range of a kolto) and at the start of the fight mdps need to pay attention until the dogs are at a safe distance. With any competent group it will probably take 5 seconds to position bloke and dogs correctly and turn it into tank and spank. It sounds from your story that the mdps got aggro from a dog and just stood where they were and expected the tank to move. There are times that I move stuff to suit melee dps, for example the 2 droids on FE HM run I did, the op healer came and stood in blue circle with me, but the mara dps stayed outside and attacked and the sorc dps stood 20 odd meters away. I moved the boss closer to the middle of the blue circle so the mara had no choice but to stand in blue. Of course there was f-all I could do about sorc so just watched him die (and then do the classic moan about "tank not holding aggro" and "healer didn't heal properly." most of the time when people die in fights its nothing to do with "bad tank" or "crap healer" it because they aren't following mechanics.
  6. Seems 5.0 has brought a new problem, back seat tanks. Got a pop for HM boarding party with my jugg tank. My jugg still has some old 216/220 gear with 208 augments and some crappy blue or even green 230's from command crates. The group I join has a sorc dps with 9 pieces of 242 gear and 5 pieces of 240 fully augmented with rank 10 purples. The merc dps is similar but has 11 pieces of 242 and 3 of 240. Healer was probably newly 70 because, like me, had old 65 gear. I put guard on the merc, they tell me to put it on healer. I don't bother answering. We clear trash to the first boss and I notice both dps have gold fever, and the sorc keeps pulling before me. This leaves me running around grabbing aggro on the little stuff while I let the dps face-tank the golds. That shouldn't be an issue right? These people are massively overgeared and its their own fault they are tanking golds because they don't follow kill order. Turns out it is an issue to the sorc (who gets the aggro because merc has guard). They keep complaining about being hit and I keep replying with "its easier for me to control aggro if you follow kill order." Get to first boss, sorc rips aggro, I taunt back, merc rips aggro, I aoe taunt back, sorc rips aggro, I taunt back, sorc rips aggro soon after and I have 2 seconds cd left on my taunt. In 2 seconds the sorc went from 100% to 22% (didn't help they ran into lightning). After the fight the sorc complains again about aggro. I tell them to aggro dump. sorc: "I don't have it bound" me: "so you come into a mission for people with 200 gear in full 240, don't bind your aggro dump and pull before the tank, then complain about getting hit?" sorc: "lol look at the weekly" me: "what?" sorc: "you clearly don't run fp's often, they aren't for 200 gear, you need at least 240 to beat them" me: "perhaps you do, that's because you are crap, any half decent player can easily do them with bolster stats" I then set a fast pace to the next boss, sorc complains they keep having to spam force speed to keep up. I love the "ending combat finishes cd on enrage, force charge and sabre throw" ability. That combined with mad dash makes for good tanking, plus the op jugg dcd's mean healer spends most of their time dealing damage, granted they are doing so as a ranged operative but I am beyond caring now, just want this crap over with. The sorc catches up once we get to the bonus boss thing, the commando with 2 droids, but then I set off quick again. Once we get to second boss I ask "ready?" but sorc wants another argument sorc: "why do you have to go so quick?" me: "well you were pulling then throwing tantrums about aggro, so I thought it best to keep ahead of you stop you moaning" sorc: "tantrums? **** you learn to tank" merc: "lol first you complain about him not holding aggro, now you complain because he sets a fast pace without ever losing aggro" sorc: "well he was throwing tantrums about kill order, whatever that is" me: "lol level 70 full 240 dps doesn't know what kill order means" merc: "what is it?" I give an explanation about killing weak enemies first, and then a conversation starts between me and the merc, he says he wants to ask me more questions about dpsing. I start with how kill order helps tanks tocontrol aggro because they don't have the time to worry about every little enemy over at the side of pulls. I then point out what happens when dps have gold fever, with the tank having 2 options: 1) keep aggro on the gold by tunnel-visioning it meaning everything else goes for the healer, or 2) let the dps rip the gold as I grab aggro on everything else to keep them off the healer. I mention abit about spread out pulls and paying attention to what is being attacked. I point out if the tank has not hit an enemy that is the first one you should kill. I then mention kiting towards the tank when you rip aggro as all tanks can generate more threat in melee and they may not want to move from where they are due to bunched up golds and silvers or dps aoe (something I learnt recently tanking and op with my shadow, sabo slingers really don't like me running out of their aoes, for good reason).....and so on and so on. The merc asks question after question, often prompted by the previous answer I spend about 5 minutes typing out what I think about how to play dps alongside a tank. Afterwards: merc: "ty mate, sorry about all the questions, just not often I meet people who explain all this stuff, makes sense though" me: "np, ready?" (as in ready to pull the jedi boss) I get a yes from the op and merc, but the sorc stays where they are and doesn't say anything. We wonder if he is dc'd but soon after he says "was afk, waiting for tank to stop timewasting" merc: "timewasting?" sorc: "as if he knows anything about dps" merc: "he said some useful stuff" sorc: "yeah but its all bs, I played dps since beta" me: "how long you been playing tank?" sorc: "I never tank or heal, I'm pure dps so I know dps better than anyone" me: "strange, most of the stuff I learnt about playing dps came from tanking and healing" sorc: "lol" me: "you know about peeling off healers, dcd's, aggro dumps and when to use them" (after taunt btw) "positioning when you rip aggro?" (the kite towards the tank thing) sorc: "lol noob you do know what dps stands for? damage per second" So its just another of these people who play every single pull and every single fight like a parse dummy, and he want to moan about my tanking. I just pull and kill, this fight with the jedi boss the sorc tunnel-visions the main boss and ignores the 2 healers, but the merc is overgeared enough to take them down himself. We do convo, continue on, do bonus boss, get to final boss and I start tanking, then the sorc rips aggro on the security chief with single-target dps. Clearly he doesn't know kill order. Now with a melee enemy attacking him what do you think he does: 1) run towards me to stack enemies 2) continue attacking the security chief while popping dcd's 3) stop attacking security chief so as to not generate any more aggro so I can control him with taunt 4) type "TANK NOOB" in chat 16 times while stopping all damage. He went with option 4. Perfect contrast of players, one dps who admits hes not perfect and asks questions then asked me to add him to friends incase he has more, another dps who points out they have played pure dps since beta and therefore know everything about dps......except kill order, peeling, dcd's, positioning, aggro dumping and letting the tank pull (not sure if he knows about interrupts because there are none in boarding party, but I would be very surprised if he did). In other words he knows his rotation which, although better than some dps, is hardly grounds to consider yourself a dps master. Still it was a win-win in the end because the sorc put me on their ignore. Thank god I will never get grouped with them again.
  7. met an interesting player yesterday. Got a pop for HM mando with my 69 jugg tank, group was 70 sin dps, 70 sorc healer and 4th guy dropped before I loaded in. I tried to guard the sin but couldn't because he was guarding his comp. I asked him what spec he was and he said he was dps. I asked him why he is guarding people. sin: "lol l2p noob, dps have guard now" me: "do they? didn't know that, can you switch it off so I can guard you" sin: "lol read patch notes for 5.0 you dont know how to play, you should guard the healer" Then the sin chain-pulled some trash and died. After which he complained about aggro, me not tanking properly etc. I use the good old "you pull it you tank it." The sin the put their guard on the healer, still preventing me from guarding him but he did stop pulling and most things were smooth until first boss. I killed bloke before dps and his rank 50 dps comp killed the 2 dogs. I write "please pick up the dps" sin: "lol you could just stop hitting the boss" me: "shouldn't have to, you have better gear than me and a 50 comp which is op, should easily have out-dpsed me" sin: "we couldn't dps properly the sorc was kiting" So apparently a moving target prevents a sin dps doing proper rotations. <sarcasm> I know, all those channels and casts that fill sin rotations, kind of reminds me of mm spec snipers </sarcasm>. We carry on, get a replacement and get to second boss. I guard the new dps and the sin starts telling me to either guard properly or not at all. me: "well I cant guard you until you switch yours off" sin: "you don't need to guard me, guard healer" The sin then starts screaming at us to los. I say "no need" and leap in to stand between the 2 ranged enemies. The sin starts complaining about "tanks with napoleon complexes" then starts attacking the knight. The other dps attacks trooper first. I write "knight first" but he doesn't move. Not that it would be much of an issue, I figure the high geared sin can take out the knight faster than a bolstered lvl 65 sin can take out the trooper. But no, trooper dies, sage dies, scoundrel dies. Knight is the only one still alive, and untankable, I taunt, I aoe taunt, I backfist (which doesn't stun, damn) I taunt then lose aggro. Guess who the knight goes for, the high geared sin. It 2-hits him and he lies dead on the floor complaining about bad tanks and not holding aggro. me: "sorry I didn't explain kill order I assumed everybody knew it as nobody asked, still it was weird a lvl 65 managed to kill 3 bosses before a lvl 70 killed one." sin: "lol I'm not the problem here, l2p noob" Do bonus boss, I tank it in what was the usual place, the spot against the wall between the pillars and the sin keeps taunting the boss and dragging it to the other side of the pillar telling me it must be tanked between the pillar and lift door, talk about napoleon complex. After the third time I don't bother taunting back to save his life, so he dies. He lies dead on the floor writing in all caps about tanking properly. After hes dead the fight is a doddle, nice and smooth and no issues at all. Do final boss, the way I usually do turrets is to sabre reflect as soon as they come up. I have the thing that makes sabre reflect last 2 seconds longer and generate high threat on all enemies currently in combat (its essentially an aoe taunt and dcd in one). That gets aggro on both turrets, then I generate more with the reflected damage and then I hope both dps attack the same turret so I can just tank on that 1 and hold aggro. I have never ever had a healer rip the non-tanked turret off me before we kill the first one. But this time high geared sin decides I am doing it all wrong. He goes and attacks the second turret but I keep aggro, boss moves and I do same again, sin does same again, attacks the other turret so I run back and fourth holding aggro. Get to third spot, same again, high geared sin then taunts the one he is attacking. I think "you taunt it you tank it" (slightly different from the you pull phrase but same concept) and the high geared sin dies. He then complains about aggro and I tell him not to taunt then. His response "your a tank, your supposed to pay attention and control aggro regardless of what others do." No I will not taunt off someone who taunts just because he wants a stick with which to say "you are crap you lost aggro." After the mission I keep getting whispers from the sin telling me how to play. I tell him I understand most stuff but he keeps going on about: -updates in 5.0. He tells me a lot has changed since 4.0 so now tanks are supposed to guard healers in pve. I reckon hes talking bs but he insists I should read patch notes for 5.0 -los is important in second boss mando, he says it stacks enemies up so they can be aoed. My response is what it always is with this claim: "2 of the enemies are ranged and 2 melee, both ranged are stood close together, therefore if entire group stands between ranged enemies, sage and knight run into melee range with us and just like magic the enemies are stacked up just like an los, but without the hassle." And of couse he does what every los noob does when I explain my logic too them, change the subject because they know I am right. -goes on about guard on healer saying dps don't need it because they have aggro dumps. I explain how healer aggro works, why guard should be on highest dps and, seeing as dps now have guard, the lowest dps can guard healer if they want (pointless though). I then get abit petty due to his attitude and point out that he geeked out and read patch notes on release, I learnt about it 30 minutes ago and I understand how to use it better than he does. Of course he insists. -he then complains about aggro management, telling me that in second boss he aggro dumped the knight then came out of stealth, hit boss twice and had aggro again. I explain to him the boss mechanics, the fact that the knight cant be tanked and say "complaining about aggro on the knight is exactly the same as complaining about aggro on the dogs and really demonstrates how little you know." He drones on about having read patch notes, knew about dps guards long before I did (I point out yet again at least I know where to put them) -then complained about healer getting aggro on the first few pulls. I wrote again "you pull it you tank it, not my fault you cant hold any aggro." Now that really touched a nerve, from this point he started typing to me in all-caps. I found it really funny, watching him get gradually more and more upset. I might be turning into a troll he starts droning on and on about reading patch notes, therefore he knows how to play. Ok so we have someone who read patch notes and thinks guard should be on healer in pve, doesn't know fight mechanics on second boss mando, pulls before the tank then moans about aggro and died repeatedly in a flashpoint. These are the types I really hate, the "I read it so I know it" type. It would be like me saying "yeah I completed NiM ops, why don't I have the achievement? well I didn't play it but I watched a video of someone doing it on youtube". or "yeah I did bh in blue 172's, because I watched it on youtube." This guy reads all the updates, but doesn't read his tooltips and thinks he can teach me how to play. Still I asked him if I could add him to friends to get any info about updates if I find something I don't know about. He agrees and I offer to give him advice on gameplay when he gets unstuck. He says he doesn't need it. I suppose its another person whose head is too full of ego to fit any actual knowledge in.
  8. people often do security guy first because they don't bother reading tooltips. A lot of people think the damage reflect given by the security guy applies to the whole group, even though its only captain. The problem is people have been doing security -> med -> captain for ages, that's the way I was taught to do it on my first run years ago. So when some idiot like me turns up and says "tooltip says med guy has no shield so we can kill her first" I usually get a "l2p noob" in reply. I cant remember names on second boss BH but I prefer white person first because they have the long range knockback, the conal which can be annoying with the red guys fire jump thing forcing you to move I have seen loads of people move into the while person conal while avoiding red person jump and I think white person does the 4 circles that follow you mechanic which is a pain if group is dumb.
  9. I will be vague to avoid spoliers just incase. Got to a bit where I go to the temple thing and talk to vette, then a load of enemies arrive, kill them all and I have to talk to vette again. Every time I try to start the conversation I get a short black screen then everything reappears with no UI, as usual when I do cutscenes. However I got bored of waiting after 4 minutes so opened up a game of minesweeper while I wait for cutscene to load. That was over an hour ago. I have never had an hour long loading time before so decided it might be a bug.
  10. tactical Legacy of rakata with the slowest speed runners I have ever seen. its my 66 sent, a 67 sage dps, 70 shadow dps and 69 mando healer. sage writes "I want a quick run" fine by me, first group, the manka cats I see the sage run around the back of the rock going to skip them. This is just a quick rant I want to make about "fast runs" and skipping pulls. This pull is 4 standard enemies, a dps can kill an standard in 3 gcd's (3 seconds) with 3 dps in the group that's 3 of the cats dead in 3 seconds and the last will aggro on healer due to not being hit. As long as the healer is smart and stands near melee dps and within los and range of rdps that cat will die in 4th gcd. That's 4 seconds to clear that pull if you do it properly. Our sage is stood around the other side of the large rock and asking the shadow to come and stealth cc something. Shadow is asking which one, sage marks it while me and mando run around the rock, it gets cc'd and we skip the pull. Probably about 20-30 seconds. I pull on next few fights and set a nice quick pace, stopping to heal myself between each one but thanks to healer its only 1 or 2 ticks of introspect to get back to full. Get to the pull by the waterfall and stop. I wait for the shadow to go and cc the dog on the right so we can skip. Instead they run up and pull and we fight them. Fight the manka cat ambush, skip through jungle bit, fight the village ambush then start first boss. When bloke comes down I attack bloke. Sage tells me to "attack rancor" me: "I would rather do it properly" sage: "its faster to kill rancor" shadow: "I will tank it" Fight goes on and either I am a pro at watchman spec sent (hint: I am not, I am **** at it and all dot specs) or the other 2 dps are crap or the bloke has lower hp or damage reduction than rancor because even with shadow and sage on rancor the whole fight, along with the healer adding some off-dps to it I get the bloke down to 4% by the time the 3 of them kill the rancor. me: "the bloke has less health so you should kill him first because then you don't need to kite fire and it turns rancor into tank and spank" (I didn't bother mentioning that in HM the only way to beat that boss is bloke first) sage: "lol everybody kills rancor first" me: "that's only when someone doesn't want to take responsibility for tanking the rancor, if you have a tank, or even and off-tank who is willing to do it then bloke is quicker" sage: "tanks have nothing to do with fast dps you dumb noob" me: "the reason non-tank groups kill rancor first is because his knockbacks are a pain when dpsing bloke, if you have someone willing to turn rancor away that's not an issue so bloke is faster and removes flame mechanics which makes rancor faster later on." sage: "whatever" I take this to mean "oh sounds like you are right but I am too perfect to ever be wrong so I will end it here" Skip next pull, kill some more and get to the 4 crates. The sage goes to the right and the other 2 follow. I consider this strange as I thought this was supposed to be a quick run and yet sage is going the slow way again. Still we do all 4 crates, in a weird order which ends up taking longer than the normal route and get to second boss. Sage stands behind a pillar and says "do adds here" and the other 2 join him. He then pulls, I jump in and start killing adds. sage: "come here to stack them up." me: "or just stack them here" sage: "this is better for group healing" me: "I have dcd's and kolto's I'm fine" We kill all adds and do some damage on the boss, then second group of adds spawn in their usual spot. The other 3 go and stand by their los pillar while I force leap at one of the adds. I kill 2 and get a third down to 50% by the time they have run over to the other by their pillar. Do some more boss damage and then fight another wave of adds, this time I only get 2 kills before they reach the los point. Kill boss and I decide to ask about those tactics. me: "how was that any faster than just killing them where they spawn" sage: "lol you are so stupid you don't even deserve an answer" me: "lol ok, but indulge me" sage: "they are spread out when they spawn." me: "lol so your saying because they are stood 4ish meters apart we should make them run all the way across the entire boss arena because that's faster?" sage: "yes it is" me: "I managed to kill 2 before they even got to you, with 3 dps in the group that's 6, theres 12 adds per group, that means that my way we kill half the group in the time it takes your way to even start attacking them" sage: "you need los to make them bunch up omg are you really this dumb?" me: "you need los to make melee enemies bunch up? omg are you really that dumb" sage: "whats melee got to do with it?" me: "los is not required to move melee enemies, if the 4 of us stand close then enemies will bunch up" sage: "exactly so you should stand with us in the los spot" me: "so you really think standing 50m away and waiting for the enemies to come to you is faster than standing where they spawn and doing single target dps on one of them while you wait for them to move the 8m to get close enough for aoe?" Sage quit group. Not that I even give a **** about cutting every last second possible, I just didn't like the sage's attitude of "my way is best and if you disagree your an idiot" even though it was perfectly obvious he was wrong (me soloing 96% damage to the bloke while 3 other people kill 1 rancor, or me killing 2 adds in the time it takes to los them when los isn't even needed).
  11. Possibly the best run I ever had (and that is weird, usually things are a nightmare). I queue for all tfp's and hm fp's with my 65 jugg tank. Get a pop for HM D7 with a 70 sin dps, 59 sorc healer and 62 sorc dps. Start first pull and I begin to melt, throw some cd's but die, group wipes. There wasn't a single heal the entire pull. healer: "not a good start" me: "are you going to do any heals?" healer: "I'm lightning spec" me - perhaps not as polite as I should have been: "so you queued as a healer for a hm fp while in dps spec?" healer: "does it matter?" me: "isn't it lovely playing with such high-calibur people?" healer quits group, sorc dps asks our companion influence ranks, and surprisingly my jaesa is best at 34. I pull out jaesa and switch her to healer then we clear stuff. Get to the bit where you knock a tower over by blowing up a thing, new person joins group, 69 sorc but doesn't do anything or run to us, then it turns out he dc'ed. We wait a while then kick him because it wont let my use jaesa even if the 4th member is all the way back at the start of the mission. Get all the way to the constructor droid thing, cant remember its actual name but the one that scans a player then makes a weak af add of that persons base class to distract from the dull grind if hitting on that 1 big droid by having you spend 1 or 2 seconds killing some weak little add every once in a while (you can tell I like this boss). We get it down to 10% or so when a new player joins group, a 61 op. We kill boss, do console, head off to the next one. Me and sin jump on mounts and skip past every skippable pull and are soon stood face to face with the droid who calls out 2 repair adds every once in a while. Group gets to us, sorc checks the op is actually a healer, which he is and I pull. All mechanics are done beautifully, the stun-knockback-aggro dump thing the boss does every now and again is interrupted and the channel after often is. Repair adds are hit hard and only 1 of them ever gets more than a couple of meters from it spawn point. Then re do repair droid boss, aggro is out of control because sin pulled, got hit hard and healer was spam healing him, ripping aggro, all while me and sorc were skipping it. Interesting bit: the pull after that boss, 1 strong 4 standards with laser beam guns. I leap at the strong, do sabre reflect then hold aggro with some aoe's while the sin beats on the strong. My sabre reflect and aoe is enough to kill the 4 standards (reflected damage is op) and the sin's dps takes the strong down around the same time as the 4 standards. The op and sorc were still running to join us. op: "is this hard mode?" me: "yes" op: "you just burnt 5 enemies in seconds" me: "5 gcd's to be precise" op: "lol so much for hard mode" Then we got to mentor fight started well but at one point both dps ignored a core, so I went for it. This was at the same time as the 2 large strong turrets were up. Both dps attacked one while the other beat on the healer as I was busy slowing killing 2 standards by the core with my tank-level damage output. The healer died, I went and sorted out aggro and we killed the turrets, I started tanking the elite and both dps ignored the core again. I went off to do core and told the sorc dps to c-res healer. They didn't, my dcd's ran out and we wiped. On the way back I wrote "dps take cores" and the second fight went quite smoothly. There was a slight hitch when both dps ignored the second core and came to attack the elite, so it had time to repair, but once it went blue again I write "get core" and the sorc goes and deals with it. We beat mentor, say our goodbyes and leave. So whats so good about the story? the fact that the second dps ignored cores and tank tried to do it himself we wiped, then when mechanics were followed we got through. This is what I love about new expansions, everybody is still in old 65 gear (or lower) but running lvl 70 missions so we all rely on bolster. This means everybody has to do mechanics properly. Back in 4.0 when playing as a tank I could decide "**** it I will ignore aggro management and just go and do mechanic X which is usually a dps mechanic" and that wouldn't wipe the group. Now it does, the game is finally back to normal..... until some idiot comes of forums to say "mentor too strong, nerf now now now!!!11111!!!" and ruins my fun all over again, making every mission back into one or 2 people in group doing mechanics regardless of their roles because hell, it doesn't matter who presses a console or who clicks a button because the healer is strong enough to face-tank it all.
  12. Sorry to let you down, I had my 3rd degree blackbelt grading 2 weeks ago (which required abit of extra training to prepare for) and a match the end of last week which kept me busy in between then an instructor training thing over the weekend. I have only played one mission since the update. My 65 sent, a 66 guardian tank, 70 vang dps and 65 mando dps. Korriban incursion tact. Tank is a tunnel-visioner but at least he tunnel-visions the strongest enemy so that's a plus. but his comment before the first boss was a real surprise to me, I have seen loads of tunnel-visioning tanks before but never one as self-aware as this guy, he wrote "you lot can do the adds, that's your job." I wrote "or you could just grab aggro on them" as he was pulling. And of course when the first pair of adds come out the tank ignores them completely, even though I grab aggro on both and kite them next to him. He literally just needs to aoe taunt then throw in some sweeping slash and smash into his tanking and all would be fine. But he didn't. I pick up adds, stack them onto the tank like a good well behaved dps and continue to facetank them to death. The worst part though, what really annoyed me was that the tunnel-visioning tank who ignores all adds constantly lost aggro to the mando dps. So after that shambles of a first fight, me stacking adds on a tank who never peeled them whilst he struggled to regain aggro from a boss who was beating on a mando dps who spent his time running koltos, we got to the second boss. Now its the vangs turn the go weird. During laser thing he comes and stands on me, I run around trying to get behind the boss and get shot by laser. Every single time the vang gets laser he stacks ontop of another person. It doesn't annoy the other 2 because they weren't even trying to get behind boss, but I go so annoyed I asked him in chat to spread out on laser. He then died from aoe's because he was busy typing instructions to me that "the laser does set damage and it splits between the people it hits, if it hits 4 people each one gets 25% of its damage rather than 1 person getting 100%. I have a feeling this is bs, I had never heard it before but was too busy avoiding aoe stuff to type so just left it at that. We do final boss, the boss is attacking the mando the entire fight while the guardian tries ineffectually to grab aggro - if only tank classes had taunts, wouldn't that be nice?
  13. I remember, back before 4.0 a member of the rep guild I was in spent most of his time ganking (I was on ToFN back then). I always got into arguments with him over it because I remember back when I was levelling my first character, my sniper, and every single quest objective in dune sea had at least 3 level 65 rep players camping on them. Plus there was a roaming band of 8 level 65 reps in dune sea. I was constantly logging on, getting killed 3 or 4 times, then logging off for about a week solid - as a side note that's what lead me to creating alts, I figured if that character was stuck on dune sea I would play some others. I eventually got past dune sea by logging on at a high-activity time and after being killed for the second time I opened map and noticed instance 3 had just appeared. I moved there and did my quests then got off tatt. Anyway, back to the rep guy. I kept telling him how annoyed I got when I was being ganked and how it ruined the game for me. His response was always "I know what its like, gankers ruined the game for me too, that's why I do it" So this guy, because his game was ruined by gankers, decided to ruin the game for other new players. His argument was always "getting revenge on the ganks." Of course that's ridiculous because the players he was killing were not gankers, if they were they would have switched to their pvp geared 65's and owned his ***. Its this attitude of "I hate it when people do X, so I am going to do X," its basically what happens when ******* get hold of computers and mmo's.
  14. Playing my lvl 41 sage healer, get a pop for tact BH, group is a 38 guardian tank, 65 guardian dps, 60 sent dps. Do first boss, the 65 guardian dps has aggro pretty much the whole fight, even when he peels off boss to attack adds. After fight tank puts guard on me, I switch it off, we do a challenge, 65 dps guardian face-tanks it then tank realises my guard is gone, guards me, I switch it off. Do second challenge, dps guardian face-tanks it, tank guards me after the fight. I switch it off and say "use it properly or not at all" No response, no guard, nothing. We do third challenge, dps face-tanks it. Then we start Jos and Valk. All 3 of them stand in fire during jos, when valk is down the conal is pointed towards the group and the 3 of them don't bother splitting up for the big red circles. I am having to use kolto's to heal through easily avoidable mechanics, then spend my time healing the dps who has aggro. We get to the final phase, fighting both bosses at once. Jos leaps in the air (the sign that he has just done fire) then valk puts big red circle on everyone. None of them move. I only have time to bubble one person (the one I was targeting at the time, the dps guardian because he was face-tanking so required most healing) before the red circles explode and, due to the damage from fire and overlapped red circles the sent and tank both die. Tank immediately dc's, the timing is far too perfect to have been a proper dc, I reckon it was a ragequit. We carry on fighting the bosses, get one of them nearly dead when the sent gets thrown over the edge by valk and it ends up a wipe. We get rid of the cry-baby who quit after 1 death and get a replacement really quick. When he joins us it turns out he is a lvl 20 guardian tank. He guards me, I tell him to guard the dps guardian as they do loads of aggro and guard is immediately switched. The level 20 pulls. He holds aggro off the level 65 guardian and lvl 60 sent, but my heals aren't up to keeping a level 20 alive in BH so he starts running kolto's too. He follows all fight mechanics (unlike the 2 dps) and we survive until jos and valk, then the sent gets thrown over the edge, tank dies, wipe. We pull again, level 20 tank holds aggro off 2 level 60+ dps while running koltos, while following all mechanics. The 2 dps don't follow mechanics and I already have lots of healing to do so they both end up dead, we wipe Next pull I get caught out by valk and knocked off the edge, everybody else dies within 12 seconds of me. sent: "we will never do it with 2 noobs in the group" guardian dps: "yeah, kick them or leave?" The sent quits group me: "strange how you lot died within seconds of my death, suggests my healing is actually making a difference" Then the guardian tank writes "sorry, I'm too weak for this I will get out of the way" and quits guardian dps "well that's 1 noob gone, just wait for you to quit and I can set up a proper group" me: "but you might not find a healer willing to try healing through mechancis" then I quit group And I am bloody pissed off, not at the guardian dps, not at the sent, but at the tank. He was perfect. He held aggro on players 40+ levels above him, he followed all mechanics while running koltos, he was amazing. Yet he let some idiot who ignored all mechanics tell him he was crap then apologised for it. So I sent the tank whispers pointing out to him that I tank for a progression ops group that he was better at holding aggro than I am, better at running koltos than I am and better at following mechanics than I am. I pointed out the problem in that group was both dps not him. From his replies I think I rather cheered him up, then when I requeued I happened to get a pop with him, hammer station with a 65 sin tank and 22 mando healer. Between them the 65 sin tank and 20 guardian discussed who was going to tank what, and the 20 asked if he could tank as he "needs the practice." He then proceeds to hold aggro on the first boss despite the sin tank doing proper rotation (slow time on cd, project on cd, cascading debris at 3-stack, force breach on cd and so on). Possibly the best tank I have ever seen in the game and hes only level 20, and yet if it was left to the dumb dps in the bh group he would think hes useless.
  15. levelling my lvl 38 sage healer, get a pop for tactical mannan, group is me, 65 guardian dps, 65 guardian tank (who is actually a tank) and 22 sent dps. We start, during the first pull aggro is mostly on me as tank tanks 1 enemy at a time until its dead. I consider giving him my "hit everything in the pull" instruction which usually makes a huge difference on bad tanks but cant be bothered as its only tactical. The guardian dps also has a lot of aggro because they keep ripping off the tank. So we have a tunnel-visioning tank that loses aggro to a dps, and where does he choose to put guard? on my healer. Genius. I switch it off and ask him to "use your guard properly please", he just runs off to the next pull without a word. get to first boss and the tank pulls with both dps outside the screen. We agree to just let them kill us and start again. Beat it second time around but my hatred for low level sage healers resource management is growing. Get to second boss, kill it, third boss, kill it then say our goodbyes and the tank says "I had heard this was a difficult one, but it seemed easy" guardian dps: "second boss is a heal check" after a bit of conversation about what heal check means I get a thanks from the tank and he congratulates me on my healing. __________________________________ By now I am level 40, nearly 41 and I get a pop for tact cad. Group is 2 65 sage dps's, one is LP and a 44 LP shadow dps. We get started, first pull the shadow runs in and stealth cc's a silver while I force lift the champ droid. Both sages open with and spam force quake breaking both cc's, they continue to spam quake even when there is only the one champ droid left. The most telling thing is the fact that the droid is aggroed on the shadow. I am pretty sure if I was playing a level 65 and spamming the same ability over and over, then a 44 ripped aggro off me I might want to check my "rotation" as I have yet to see a rotation that does actually consist of spamming one ability. However this never occurs to either of the 2 sages. Second pull the shadow stealth cc's a dog then both sages open with quake, then they both start quaking the champ droid at the top of the lift, shadow tries to knock it down but misjudges it so I send it over the edge with my force wave (and that is the correct use of force wave, its not supposed to be for splitting enemies a tank has spent some time bunching up). We skip what we can after the lift, cant open shortcut so have to do that 2 standard, 2 silver and 2 champ pull. The shadow goes and cc's a silver, I force lift a champ droid and both sages spam force quake and break all cc's. The entire fight is me spam healing the 4 of us while shadow does kill order and 2 useless sages spam force quake. Its a close fight, I run out of resource as the remaining droid is at 12% and the shadow its aggroed on has 44% so I run in and do basic -> heal -> basic -> heal etc until fight is over. We carry on to the first boss and a conversation ensues non-lp sage: "kill droid" me: "no needs its tact" lp sage: "how about you start healing seeing as you queued as healer" me: "whats wrong with my healing? who has died?" lp sage: "just heal" me: "who has died?" lp sage: "shut the **** up" shadow pulls, we start the fight, lp sage spams force quake while the other one does single target dps (possibly rotation, or might just be random abilities in a random order) on the droid. Droid activates, freezes the non-lp sage, then comes for me. I imprison it then help kill the bloke, in the meantime the frozen guy gets killed by some dot or whatever kills you in the frozen bit. non-lp sage: "see I just died how about you start healing?" me: "I don't heal through stupid" me: "I wont heal if you ignore mechanics" non-lp sage: "I couldn't move and couldn't heal myself" me: "and why couldn't you move? because you ignored mechanics" LP sage puts a vote kick on me, they then jump on the taxi along with the shadow, while I am fixing the shortcut taxi. Me and the other sage jump on the shortcut one. We then spend ages of me arguing with the LP sage about us coming to them. I have already jumped down from shortcut place so cant get back to taxi. I am telling the non-lp sage to jump down from the taxi platform so we can clear trash backwards to the other 2 the non-lp sage is telling me to climb back up to the taxi (which if there is a way I don't know how) the lp sage is telling me to go back to taxi and take the one to where they are. the shadow is already on the taxi going back from their one to the shortcut one. Shadow gets to where me and other sage are, the lp sage is still telling us to come to him. We decide to fight our way back to him when suddenly it pops up that the vote kick on me failed. lp sage: "well I'm off, gl you 2 carrying him (meaning me) through" then quits group. We fight thorough to second boss, kill it with the dps sage dead on the floor from not following mechanics - I specifically told them to tunnel-vision the wookie and my heals would mean I have aggro on adds and I can deal with them (I intended to stand close to the boss spam healing through the adds as I have done dozens of times before). Instead the dps sage puts his comp on healer so some of the adds go for it, then spams force quake under all the adds to rip aggro off his comp, then runs around like a headless chicken (away from the boss so we can just let him kill them) spamming "HEAL" in chat. We run through stuff to the lift, run through stuff at the bottom, do convo, get to final boss and I see the sage dps has gone left after going through the door and is stood where the first fire jet starts. the shadow tells them to bring comp in (its stuck on the door), I explain how (dismiss and resummons) and tell them to switch it to damage for the billionth time. sage dps: "I will leave it heal just in case" shadow: "good, don't want to trust <my name> to cope with this one" me: "do you 2 know what to do?" sage and shadow: "yes" I pull, we start fighting, sage goes down to 40% hp within a couple of seconds because he is stood in fire. He writes "HEAL NOOB", I don't heal, he is being kept alive by his comp (just) but is not happy with me, starts flaming on me about how bad I am at healing. Of course his comp is spam healing him so only heals the shadow gets are from me, and guess what? shadow is constantly topped off and I have time to do some damage. Flames move me and shadow move but sage stays in them and carries on telling me to l2p etc. I get fed up of his **** so I extricate (or whatever its called, the pull ally thing) him from the flames and let his comp heal him up while I look after shadow and attack boss. Flames move again and sage doesn't, he is stood in flames again and about to die, and is still telling me to l2p. He has spent most of this fight doing no damage at all as he is too busy typing in chat to me. shadow: "why are you stood in fire?" me: "I did ask if you know what to do before we pulled" sage: "heal me noob, its your job" I let him die, me and shadow finish the fight, res him then say "so <shadows name> do you think I coped with this one?" sage: "good riddance noob, l2p if you ever want to group with me again. I then switch character to my shadow tank because.....and heres the big reveal, I am in the progression ops group of the guild he is in. I have a nice conversation with him about fight mechanics, listening to people who know what to do and asking the group for mechanics if you don't know the fights. He replies along the lines of calling me elitist and a noob healer (I have healed ops for this guild too) then when the guild chat starts agreeing with me he quits guild.
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