While there are two threads with multiple suggestions specific to 'fixing 8x8' and many threads on specific suggestions such as the pvp early leaving penalty this thread is a brief survey on the 8x8 results. Granted this is not an unbiased survey as I have been in all the matches. the survey consisted on 40 pvp 8x8 matches over multiple servers which is a very narrow survey in the context of total matches played on these servers. While I would like to see the stats on all games played in a month over each server is is just a narrow look based on kill ratios. Noting that a kill can be assigned to more than one person as can be seen in kills from healers in particular. One takeaway as can be seen from the results is it not a good idea to post these kill results. This leads to teams trying to run up kill scores. One game where hacking was suspected was excluded from the survey. My perception is hacking has been significantly reduced over the years and is continually being seriously investigated in the more rare times it is suspected. kill ratio winner to loser 1-5+ 1-4 1-3 1-2 1-1 2-1 3-1 4-1 5+-1 2 0 2 6 4 7 4 4 11 5% 0% 5% 15% 10% 17.5% 10% 10% 27.5% The 1-9 and 1-16 scores were the losing team basically ignoring objectives and are thus tactical wipeouts. The 1-3 and 1-2 indicate a 20% chance of pulling an underdog victory. While a 4+-1 shows no chance of winning if the other side is seriously wiping you out but cares about objectives which accounts for 37.5 % of the battles. How much a wipeout can be seen in the ratios of 5+-1. These were 454-0, 154-0, 38-1, 22-1, 21-1, 18-1, 15-1, 8-1, 7-1, 7-1, and 6-1. That is wipeouts occur 42.5% of the time as you need to include the 1-9 and 1-16 fights. Close games are then 57.5% with a 27.5% to 20% of the overkilling side winning. A close game for example a 2-1 kill ratio did lead to a 6 to 0 score huttball objective blow out. The two 1- 1 Huttball game scores were 4-0 and 5-2 objective scores. The perception to players these games are close may vary. The bottom line is you better be prepared for being wipeout in 8x8. I think the consensus is the wipeouts are particularly due to premades however this study did not and could not easily identify premades vs. non-premades. I hope data on pvp is being closely gathered and that actions such as those in the fixing 8x8 threads and other threads will be examined to better balance the teams. Players tend to remember the wipeouts and the games pulled from the clutches of defeat or barely staving off defeat. The close games are what we want the game designed to promote occurring more often.

The leaving early penalty is the stick to the carrot of pvp seasonal rewards. The key thing is to fix pvp for which many suggestions are given in the two threads on fixing 8x8. Herein I do agree that a team mates winning in objectives should be allowed to quit without penalties as it is most likely do to crashes however as you will see in a new thread on 8x8 balance I can see why 5% of the time they may be winning in objectives and being wipeout in kills.

There are a number of issues and a number of suggested fixes to look at in both the Fixing 8x8 pre match and in game threads. This thread started with 10 suggestions. In my recent survey of matches people continue to drop out but not more than three in any session. When a mid level session started it seemed balanced 4x4 but soon the teams were unbalanced and ended 5x6. This should not happen unless a player drops out. The players should be added in pairs unless it starts unbalanced or players drop. This mid level was not included in the below survey. In a very small survey (20 PVP 8x8 level 80 matches over 4 servers) the sides continued to be unbalanced. Under dogs win as defined by the winner killing less than the loser regardless of the kill ratio 2 instances Close games as defined by 2-1 ratio or less in kill ratio 5 instances 3-1 ratio in kill ratio 5 instances 4-1 and 6-1 kill ratios two each 7-1, 9-1, and 20-1 kill ratios one each Worse kill score was 110 to 0 needless to say it ended quickly Basically 10% chance underdogs winning, 25% chance of a close game, 65% chance of being blown out. Kill ratios then is a 90% indicator of who will win. These teams may not have been doing more damage but were clearly successful at focusing damage to kill and healing/protecting to keep up. While not investigated it is logical premades would be better focused and thus have a major advantage. Premade may also have an advantage on focusing on scoring and winning as underdogs although this hypothesis was not examined. Depending on the scenario killing can add points to the team's actual score such as in hypergate. This leads to a question as whether the value of kills should be reduced in such scenarios if teams can not be better balanced. It also suggests solo players need to act more like premade teams in focusing attacks by targeting individuals especially healers.

Very clear that PVP remains unbalanced as nothing has been done. Still not uncommon to see 10:1 or 20:1 kill ratios. Balanced is clearly not being done based on alts actual performance and that premade groups of 8 dominating PVP vs. pug groups. What is uncommon is close games. Highlight GSF seemed to be popular in galactic season.

One of the measures of the lack of success in balance is people taking the exit penalty rather than fight on. In todays sample set all three matches had people quit and one has 3 people quit. This is in pvp season. clearly the carrot is losing to the penalty stick. Need to fix the the balance. One match had a healer at 10M one at 4 and another at 3 all on the same side. the other side one healer over 1M. To keep games moving no team should have more than 2 healers. Another balance adjustment that is needed.

Historically PVP non ranked has had certain abilities set to a minimum. It was not uncommon for people to enter PVP without any armor although they did need weapon(s). So in 80 the grouping I believe even if you have 306 gear rating certain stats would be raised to something like 320 equivalent or maybe now it is 322. You are still out gunned by 340 plus especially fully augmented. There is nothing to apologize for having low implants. The match making should be designed to take into account not only the gear but the actual previous damage, healing, protections.... Threads on Fixing 8x8 discuss this and other issues.

The gear on the cartel market is rotated. Most cartel items sold in sets like all the pieces you are looking for. Covert armor is sold as a partial set and additional 2 pieces individually. Rascal toothpick is an example of a piece only sold single on the cartel market. I believe the mini skirt sometimes has legging depending on what else you are wearing. There are a few sets that have with and without cloak chest pieces. Patience of a Jedi is needed for shopping!

In void star, if neither team gets a door I think it is damage or kills that win after round 2. In huttball the team controlling the ball.last In GSF death match the team with the last kill. Unfortunately not enough close games. Unfortunately these games are rare.

It is my understanding that match making is not based on wins. Farming teams do not want scoring to end the session early. Farming for medals. Farming for high damage healing protection scores and kills. If they were avoiding wins all the time they would just be put against the next players that queue in.

I like huttball. One thing that should be done as noted in the Fixing 8x8 threads is to not repeat huttball or any other general map unless it ends in a close score. No one should suffer through three huttball wipeouts or any other game map in a row. to get a daily. There are times when the scores were even to the end and I would want ONE rematch! One would think this would be a relatively easy change to make as it requires no new voice overs, no new map...

The https://vulkk.com/2024/01/25/swtors-pvp-is-burning-to-the-ground/ makes at lot of good and sensible points some of which will be difficult to program. Some such as moving the healing nodes further away from the doors in voidstar should be easier. The PVP maps should be required reading whose links are there in the url. I wonder how difficult it would be to allow single players training mods to run through the maps like a mission tutorial. Even simple changes in visual effects can help such as making sage shields easier to see through especially when over lapping. Altering, (not elimanating) the premades and match making changes should be top on the list to do. Certainly part of the difficulty in changing abilities is it also affects operations. Changing the looks of icons probably not so much. The need to change the abilities is there. There are a lot of thoughts out there on what and how so I am not going to get into those aspects. I await expecting to see some changes being announced. I hope I will not be disappointed.

You should look at the two threads on Fixing 8x8. The penalty delay is necessary. It is the stick to the galactic seasons carrot. If you do not have it instead of 1 or 2 people dropping out you will have entire teams dropping. I have been in matches terminated due to drop outs. The penalty needs to be kept at least until the PVP matches are better balanced. Some people drop out as they do not like the map. sometimes it is because the map is repeated even though it was a previous blowout. Repeat maps in close games, do not repeat for blowouts. If the match making were better based on actual stats as damage, healing, protection... then boosting would be unnecessary. Stats over time so someone entering half way is prorated. Someone dropping out the stats are not used. Voice comms are big advantages and so is people watching the chat box.

I do not believe just nerfing the players and gear is the issue. The real issue is balancing the teams and setting slight map changes as discussed in the Fixing 8x8 threads. If there is a super player with 75 with set bonus... then that player should shift the team weight and be balanced lesser teammates. It is not only the gear it is the performance that should be part of the rating. When you have a large strong premade team it can be impossible to balance with random players. The size of premades is an issue. The threads also discuss a host of possible changes such as modified release times to help the game balance the teams before and during the play.

First gold spammers ( those that sell credits for real money should be reported by everyone and immediately banned). Historically and today they buy credits for real money to resell for real money and should be banned. You should by cartel coins for really money and sell the items. That supports the game. Another way gold spammers make credits is with bots picking up materials. Love to kill them in pvp instances or race ahead to pick up their mats. A real person would tell you off after doing that to them. Often spammers are selling things in huge lots such as 9999 item lots. Want to stop those gold spammers in game reselling do not buy their way over priced items. Be an educated consumer. Undercut them. There is a dedicated group for years that have been trying to stabilize prices. Trying to drive prices down when they get to high. A losing battle for years. Yes we pay a lot of taxes. We have donated billions in credits and items to guilds. We teach others how to gather, craft, sell and buy adding to the economy. When supplies get way too high the prices drop and we buy. Without the ability to do this there is no way to craft, gather... enough to increase supply to drive prices down. when they rise. A lot of items over an extended period are needed to drive the prices down. If prices are too low prices it deters people from gathering and crafting new items and making a reasonable return on their efforts. Do not be against reselling be against ridiculous high prices.

If the teams are even in size the option of not adding more is a viable one. If however someone drops out they should be replaced to even the sides. Here again there should be a limit. I have seen the game declare a victory when an 8x8 degraded to 8x5. I believe that was due to imbalance and not due to people total drop outs. The imbalance also appears as a means of declaring victory in GSF. Using a drop out total might also be useful in helping end premade farming. If that many people are dropping out and taking the queuing penalty regardless of restaffing end it even if that can penalizes remaining players if they have failed to make objective totals. The Two threads on Fixing 8x8 war zones have provided a host of ideas. Basically if the changes are not made drop outs will be the only option for players to pursue. Clearly the galactic and conquest carrots and the queue penalty stick approach are not enough to save 8x8 in the long run. Fix it, you have a wide range of suggested tools in these two threads.