Thanks Hanak! That sounds like exactly the right environment for me. I'll try to connect with you in-game tomorrow, as I'll probably be off-and-on throughout the afternoon. I did a little GSF on Ebon Hawk today: you've got a lot of good gunship pilots over here! Honestly I'm not very good a Starfighter yet, but I'm starting to get the hang of it. My plan is to get my Star Guard equipped for taking down gunships, and attacking turreted sats.

Howdy! Right now my main is on Begeren Colony, but I've had some alts on Ebon Hawk before. I'm thinking of rebuilding my main over here, mainly because the culture seems to be better on the Republic side and you have lots of organized GSF activity (like this guild). What I want to know is this: is Saberwing OK with casual players? I'm probably on for somewhere between 10-15 hours a week, mostly in the weekends. Between work and college courses, when the new semester comes up 10 hours will probably be the maximum I can offer. I'll probably level up primarily through GSF and PVP, so you could expect to see a lot of me in guild activities. Because of how little time I spend in game, especially on weekdays, I've been playing the game solo for the time I've been on here, but I'm really interested in finding a relaxed guild environment that will except casual (and slightly introverted) players.

Technically, the purpose of debate is to persuade the observers, not the debators. The debators are supposed knowledgeable and firm in their positions. The observers are not educated or firm, and the debators are attempting to sway their opinions. "Debates" on the internet usually have a lot of the "firm" and "opinions" but "education" and "knowledge" are woefully absent. Generally the smart people are either not talking or are so upset they don't sound smart. When somebody does say something smart, a snarky person comes along and kills the thread before it becomes thought provoking (couldn't have that, now could we?). It's not that debates don't go anywhere. It's that mindless bash-fests featuring "fanboi vs. TOR-hater" goes nowhere. And when we try to convince ourselves that we're actually "debating", we're just kidding ourselves, because even if we're being legit, somebody will come along and start mud-slinging.

^This is the voice of reason. Listen.

Several of you said something like "now it's all about money". Um...what was it about before? This game was made to turn a profit. If you can't handle that, move to a country where making money is a bad thing. People don't make games for fun. Even WoW was made to turn a profit.

If you file in an American court: after the judge is finished rolling on the floor laughing, he will ask if there were any such terms explicity stated in your contract, and when EA's lawyer points out that there aren't any, he'll tell you that in America if something isn't explictly stated then it doens't count. And EA's lawyers would eat you for lunch anyway. If you file in Europe: after the judge stops hyperventilating, and the reporters stop saying "it's the end of the world!", the judge will EA is an evil corporation, disolve it, and give the proceeds to you, which, after taxes, will amount to nothing, taking European inflation into account.

^This. Seriously, people who don't like the game but keep playing make me think they have no life outside of SWTOR. Makes me feel sorry for them. But not very much, because they're incredibly annoying to those of us who actually like the game.

So, people spent a little money and then quit because they didn't like the game. Sometimes you spend money on something, and then you don't like it. Welcome to life. Just because you don't like the game doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to like the game either. So, you thought the game was terrible. Fine. But I like it, and I'm spending my money on it, not your money. So please, build a bridge, get over it, and move on to another game. It's not the end of the world. Seriously.

See, I just assumed that, if he says he's a tank, he knows if he's a tank, and can therefore handle Hammer Station. I just won't make that mistake again.

I tend to agree. It would be better than the lamer stuff, like "the stalwart" and "the Revanite". At least, it would be an option that I would pick over those, and even over Chiper Nine.

I think the IA has a lot of funny lines. Case in point:

See, this is the sort of thing I'm talking about. Is there anything we can do about it, or do we just have to accept the fact that some people like to be randomly mean, especially to newbs? I just wish there was a clear tip off so you could recognize the tight-wound-know-it-alls and the can't-play-but-talk-like-they-cans before you group with them. When I join groups, I admit that I don't usually know what I'm doing. It's just to bad that people don't do the same. I know I have to accept these people as a fact of life, so I'm not complaining about them. I was just trying to figure out if the long time players knew how to get wise to the bad people before they actually do something.

Yes, that makes sense. But really, I still don't want to run into people who are going to quit, even though we're doing fine, just because we were all playing that the low-levels that we are. He was lv17, anyway, and actually seemed to have some tanking ability. And he wasn't getting targetted by AOE at all, while I, for one example, was playing sniper, and therefore much less mobile, which meant I was getting hurt by ranged AOE a lot, which naturally made the healer more concerned about me. And healing is a little helpful when dealing with the final boss, since you have to deal with his AOEs and the extra guys he keeps bringing in, which forces advanced classes like the sniper to go mobile, which means less damage occurs to the boss, which means he has a longer time to deal damage out to everyone else. @alifaraaz: that's what I thought. Kind of a change for me, because in the last MMO I was on, you could pretty much instantly recognize people who didn't know how to play, based on their equipment and weapons.

OK, so, even with so few responses so far, basically what I'm seeing is this: 1. Leveling is a pretty good barrier to keep these people away. 2. Don't be shy with the ignore button. 3. It's best to go with people you know, or at least recognize, when you can. 4. Beyond that, there's precious little that can be done other than avoiding people with a lower level than you, which is not always something to go by. Is that pretty resonable?

All these observations are valid. And I'm not really complaining about them, becasue they are pretty much a fact of life, what I'm really asking is, in your experience having played a lot longer than me, are there some signs or something that help you know when a group is mature and worth your time, and when it isn't. Basically, the guy was tanking, but not drawing agression, and because he was tanking the healer focused more on those of us who actually were drawing agression. He complained if his health wasn't 100% all the time, and he always waited for others to attack first even though he clearly stated he was playing tank. He left his keyboard in the middle of fights a lot without giving us a heads up. But he complained when other people did things the right way. And quiting because your upset that people are doing this the right way is really not cool. Again, this isn't an attempt to bash these people, I'm just asking the experienced people if they've found ways to recognize the un-helpful before getting stuck with them.