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Yoda and Darth Sidious


Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
12.28.2011 , 12:43 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Newsinz View Post
It would depend... Yoda absorbed most of his attacks lol.. He got lucky with that fight. Fact of the matter is. It would depend on the situation. Like Bane for example... he was smart. he would not fight someone unless he knew the odds were in his favor.

Everything is calculated on the current situation. Making it really hard to judge who would win.
There is no such thing as luck. A quote from Obi Wan Kenobi.

Mylordbone's Avatar


Mylordbone
12.28.2011 , 03:15 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Rhyltran View Post
"Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chambers, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two entered into a spectacular duel -- a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force's light and dark sides. The Emperor proved too powerful to defeat. Though Yoda held his own for much of the duel, in the end, the Sith bested him. He realized that directly confronting the Sith would be doomed to failure. Defeated, Yoda slinked away into the shadows of the Senate chamber's cavernous depths, leaping into a waiting getaway speeder piloted by Bail Organa."

This was taken from Leland Chee himself. Sidious was more powerful than Yoda. Yoda realized that directly facing Sidious was doomed to failure. It also states that Sidious was too powerful for him to defeat. Nowhere does it state that Yoda wasn't in his prime. It pretty much comes down to this. Yoda may be the most powerful Jedi pre-Luke. However, Sidious was simply a more powerful Sith. If you watch the scenes you'll notice that except in two instances it almost seemed as if Sidious was playing with him. The only two times he seemed worried was when he was being pushed back in a saber lock and also when Yoda was absorbing his force lightning.
^this
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BladeStrike's Avatar


BladeStrike
12.28.2011 , 07:49 AM | #23
Yoda is a cheater. His race naturally lives longer!

FirstAngelus's Avatar


FirstAngelus
12.28.2011 , 09:19 AM | #24
Well I do not much about the Extendet universe and usually do not care much about "commentarys" of any kind, so I'll judge just from what I have seen in the movies...

..and here... well. It didnt seem to me that YOda was weaker then Sidious.... they seemed to be prety much en par.
But... since fights cant go on forever, especially in a motion picture, even with two opponents beeing an exact match, sooner or later one must win. May be out of luck, may be because he happened to react in the one critical second better then the other one.
And in that case it was Siddious.

To me it is that simple, but if not, there could be a couple of things said to Yodas deffense:

- he was old. He died with 900 years a natural death. That fight happened 25?? years before....
Means 25 years before the end of 900 years life span.
- he was exaustet. Palpatine/Siddious did spend the month before sitting arround in his office and playing a little hostage. Yoda fought in the clone wars, yoda fought his way to the Senate... So its doesnt seem that unreasonable that a part of his "resources" were already gone when he fought palpatine.
- he is small. Really. I mean, sure there is that whole message about "size doesnt matter"... but he IS small. He uses the force to OVERCOME that disadvantadges, but they are there. And if he meets and fights someone equaly strong with force that is NOT small, Yoda has to spend more "resources" to do the same thing.

And ultimatly: Beeing the "strongest force user" does not mean that his abilitys are conectet to fighting.

Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
12.28.2011 , 09:27 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
Well I do not much about the Extendet universe and usually do not care much about "commentarys" of any kind, so I'll judge just from what I have seen in the movies...

..and here... well. It didnt seem to me that YOda was weaker then Sidious.... they seemed to be prety much en par.
But... since fights cant go on forever, especially in a motion picture, even with two opponents beeing an exact match, sooner or later one must win. May be out of luck, may be because he happened to react in the one critical second better then the other one.
And in that case it was Siddious.

To me it is that simple, but if not, there could be a couple of things said to Yodas deffense:

- he was old. He died with 900 years a natural death. That fight happened 25?? years before....
Means 25 years before the end of 900 years life span.
- he was exaustet. Palpatine/Siddious did spend the month before sitting arround in his office and playing a little hostage. Yoda fought in the clone wars, yoda fought his way to the Senate... So its doesnt seem that unreasonable that a part of his "resources" were already gone when he fought palpatine.
- he is small. Really. I mean, sure there is that whole message about "size doesnt matter"... but he IS small. He uses the force to OVERCOME that disadvantadges, but they are there. And if he meets and fights someone equaly strong with force that is NOT small, Yoda has to spend more "resources" to do the same thing.

And ultimatly: Beeing the "strongest force user" does not mean that his abilitys are conectet to fighting.
Sidious was ROTTING from his dark side use. If age is a disadvantage to Yoda. It's a disadvantage to Sidious as well. Not to mention his body degenerating would also be a weakness that counters Yoda's age. He was also using the force just to stay alive. Sidious also hasn't slept ever since he murdered his master because he refuses to die the same way his master did. Sidious power alone was clouding the force and diminishing the jedi's ability to use it.

Factor in what I said before. In his fight with Windu? He was frustrated the entire time. In his fight with Yoda? He was laughing and having fun. The first thing I thought, before Lucas and Leland Chee said anything, was that Yoda wasn't being taken seriously. Note also not long ago Sidious fought Mace Windu. So that counters your resources argument. Leland Chee controls Canon. He's the one in charge of controlling it. He said Sidious is more powerful and to me I don't really see anything conflicting that. It makes sense. Considering it was also confirmed Sidious lost his saber duel with mace and we clearly see his facial expressions when losing. He doesn't laugh it off.

DrkSithLrd's Avatar


DrkSithLrd
12.28.2011 , 10:09 AM | #26
George Lucas has said the Dark Side of the Force is more powerful in the commentaries for the movies. That is why Obi-wan was able to kill Darth Maul, because Obi-Wan tapped the Dark Side in order to jump up and kill Darth Maul...(Or wound aka Clone Wars Return to be). The Dark Side is always more powerful, that is why it's so tempting. Yoda was a weak-minded fool. Yoda is severely over rated, and he got the beating he deserved by Emperor Palpatine.

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Smithie's Avatar


Smithie
12.28.2011 , 12:11 PM | #27
Yoda could still be more powerful than Sidious and still lose. Sidious could be the better strategist and most likely have no problem to play dirty.
I just don't think Yoda would do everything possible to kill Sidious, he was going to do it the Jedi way or not at all.

Just because someone wins doesn't mean they are stronger or more powerful.
e.g Odysseus Vs Polpyphemos
"Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens"

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OjamesE's Avatar


OjamesE
12.28.2011 , 03:56 PM | #28
what I don't understand is why are focrce users so mentally unstable? a normal person can use anger and emotion for resolve without becoming a psychopathic killer in the process

Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
12.28.2011 , 04:04 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Smithie View Post
Yoda could still be more powerful than Sidious and still lose. Sidious could be the better strategist and most likely have no problem to play dirty.
I just don't think Yoda would do everything possible to kill Sidious, he was going to do it the Jedi way or not at all.

Just because someone wins doesn't mean they are stronger or more powerful.
e.g Odysseus Vs Polpyphemos
Yoda wasn't as powerful as Sidious. Leland Chee said so. Yoda WAS there to destroy Sidious. He pretty much told Obi Wan he was going to have to kill Anakin. He was fighting to kill at that point.

As to the other poster.. Jedi are allowed to get angry but they're not allowed to be controlled by it or act out in anger. You can be angry that someone stole your car but the proper method is to call the police. Finding the perpetrator and beating him to living hell or killing him isn't the proper course of action.

In Star Wars terms the Jedi would control their anger and arrest the guy for his actions. A Sith would find the thief and murder him. Also note force users are more susceptible to both the light and the dark. Their actions hold greater consequences.

Smithie's Avatar


Smithie
12.28.2011 , 04:55 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Rhyltran View Post
Yoda wasn't as powerful as Sidious. Leland Chee said so. Yoda WAS there to destroy Sidious. He pretty much told Obi Wan he was going to have to kill Anakin. He was fighting to kill at that point.
My argument was more about the posters that state because Sidious won the duel between him and Yoda, he therefore is automatically the more powerful one. Which doesn't have to be the case.

Also i didn't say Yoda wasn't going/planning to kill Sidious, i was suggesting that it would be harder for Yoda to kill Sidious the jedi way without tapping to much into the dark side.


I think most of you need to re-watch the fight between Yoda and Sidious. It looks very 50/50 to me. Yoda matches a lot of Sidious's attacks, even when Sidious uses his force lightning near the end Yoda was able to hold him off !!
Which most likely drained him a lot and therefore retreating from the fight. I'm sure at this point of the fight, if Sidious could of escaped, he would of done. (he actually did try to avoid fighting with Yoda at the start)

But you can clearly see that both of them are struggling against each other during the fight.

Yoda Vs Sidious - Eps III
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFEjc...feature=fvwrel
"Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens"

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