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Yoda and Darth Sidious


Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
12.27.2011 , 08:11 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by BrandonSM View Post
Thank you.
No problem. I edited my post with more info. Notice in the saber duel between Sidious and Windu when Sidious was being forced back the entire time he seemed very unhappy. If it was his personally not to take things seriously he'd be smiling and laughing during that too but he isn't. It's also been confirmed that Sidious did lose the lightsaber bout with mace but that's understandable given that's Mace windu's strongest element. In revenge of the sith it stated that just before Sidious stopped with the lightning Windu was going to lose his grip on his saber.

So.. it goes like this..

Sidious saber combat < Windu's saber combat.

Sidious Saber skill = Yoda's saber skill

Sidious use of the force > Both Windu and Yoda.

Note during Windu's duel with Sidious he gave himself more fully to his form Vaapad than ever before. He tapped into what he was afraid would corrupt him. Making him far more powerful than before. It's likely in that moment in his duel with Sidious Windu was truly at his best and most likely rivaled Yoda at that specific point. Maybe even stronger for the moment. I believe (and this part is speculation) if he did win against Sidious he probably would have fallen at that point.

Jochteas's Avatar


Jochteas
12.27.2011 , 08:17 PM | #12
There are other things going on in that fight. Yoda wasn't trying to Sidious, Sidious was in fact trying to kill Yoda, Also, Yoda was more in tuned with the Force then Sidious was, and at the time of the fight, the force was EXTREMELY unbalanced and going hay-wire (you know, the systematic slaughtering of the jedi across the galaxy messing with it. Also Yoda was not in his prime, that was about 2-3 hundred years ago. The Guy couldn't get around day to day with out a cane, let alone be prepared to face one of the most powerful Sith in the last two thousand years. Finally Yoda was on a time table, he had to beat Sidious quickly, and that changed a lot of his actions. He couldn't really have a fight like the one he had with Douku. Sidious was obviously not the most powerful. Mace Windu owned him in like 3 shots, if Anakin hadn't surprised him he'd probably could take Anakin, and Mace thought himself less then Yoda.

Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
12.27.2011 , 08:20 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Jochteas View Post
There are other things going on in that fight. Yoda wasn't trying to Sidious, Sidious was in fact trying to kill Yoda, Also, Yoda was more in tuned with the Force then Sidious was, and at the time of the fight, the force was EXTREMELY unbalanced and going hay-wire (you know, the systematic slaughtering of the jedi across the galaxy messing with it. Also Yoda was not in his prime, that was about 2-3 hundred years ago. The Guy couldn't get around day to day with out a cane, let alone be prepared to face one of the most powerful Sith in the last two thousand years. Finally Yoda was on a time table, he had to beat Sidious quickly, and that changed a lot of his actions. He couldn't really have a fight like the one he had with Douku. Sidious was obviously not the most powerful. Mace Windu owned him in like 3 shots, if Anakin hadn't surprised him he'd probably could take Anakin, and Mace thought himself less then Yoda.
No. Yoda was trying to kill Sidious. That was the mission. He was supposed to destroy Sidious whereas Obi Wan was supposed to destroy Anakin. Proof is that when he said he couldn't. He told Yoda he couldn't do it and Yoda said he's no longer the apprentice he knew. The force was unbalanced from Sidious alone. Sidious was so powerful that the dark side was clouding everything. It was his power alone that was doing it. Windu's duel with Sidious was long. You forget it cuts off and goes to another scene. It wasn't quick and it's confirmed in Canon windu would have died anyway. Windu defeated Sidious in saber combat. Note Yoda has been known to tie Windu. So Windu = Yoda usually and considering he tapped into Vaapad further than he ever has before that would put Windu above Yoda in saber combat.

Note that while you point out there are other factors it doesn't change that Sidious didn't look happy in his duel with Mace. He seemed frustrated and worried. He seemed to be having FUN fighting Yoda. Not to mention it's been confirmed. Leland Chee has stated Sidious proved too powerful. Therefore, Sidious is more powerful than Yoda. You can claim Yoda was in his prime a few hundred years ago but we don't know this. While he was old he could still tap into the force and allow himself to move acrobatically. Through age often comes wisdom and learning of new techniques.

It's why even in life old masters have defeated younger students. While the younger students are quicker, more fit, stronger, and more agile it's the knowledge and experience that allowed the Veteran to win out.

BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
12.27.2011 , 08:22 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Rhyltran View Post
No problem. I edited my post with more info. Notice in the saber duel between Sidious and Windu when Sidious was being forced back the entire time he seemed very unhappy. If it was his personally not to take things seriously he'd be smiling and laughing during that too but he isn't. It's also been confirmed that Sidious did lose the lightsaber bout with mace but that's understandable given that's Mace windu's strongest element. In revenge of the sith it stated that just before Sidious stopped with the lightning Windu was going to lose his grip on his saber.

So.. it goes like this..

Sidious saber combat < Windu's saber combat.

Sidious Saber skill = Yoda's saber skill

Sidious use of the force > Both Windu and Yoda.

Note during Windu's duel with Sidious he gave himself more fully to his form Vaapad than ever before. He tapped into what he was afraid would corrupt him. Making him far more powerful than before. It's likely in that moment in his duel with Sidious Windu was truly at his best and most likely rivaled Yoda at that specific point. Maybe even stronger for the moment. I believe (and this part is speculation) if he did win against Sidious he probably would have fallen at that point.
To be honest. I think Windu's saber skills are 2nd to Luke Skywalker if not equal. Especially after Shatterpoint and we go into detail on Vapaad. He rivaled Yoda and Count Dooku(During Jedi years) and he couldn't even do his best against the two sparring because Vapaad is at its best against dark side users. It channeled the user and the opponents inner darkness.

To add on to that, Mace's ability with Shatterpoint made him unstoppable in dueling. And, he mastered all the other Forms.


My opinion of course.


My opinion of course.
Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."

Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
12.27.2011 , 08:25 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by BrandonSM View Post
To be honest. I think Windu's saber skills are 2nd to Luke Skywalker if not equal. Especially after Shatterpoint and we go into detail on Vapaad. He rivaled Yoda and Count Dooku(During Jedi years) and he couldn't even do his best against the two sparring because Vapaad is at its best against dark side users. It channeled the user and the opponents inner darkness.

To add on to that, Mace's ability with Shatterpoint made him unstoppable in dueling. And, he mastered all the other Forms.


My opinion of course.


My opinion of course.
No. I completely agree with you. Factor in that while it's at it's best against Dark Side users and then combine that in the duel with Sidious he gave himself fully to it in their duel. As soon as he fell Lucas states in the commentary "This is where Sidious loses his duel.." it's Canon that Windu did defeat Sidious in saber combat. Considering Sidious mastered all the forms but one.. that's pretty impressive. Many people are quick to toss Mace aside like he's much weaker than Yoda but don't realize that Windu might have been, in that moment, even more powerful than Yoda or at the very least his equal.

BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
12.27.2011 , 08:29 PM | #16
I'm such a Windu fanboy. I wish there were more novels on him than comics. lol.


Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."

Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
12.27.2011 , 08:33 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by BrandonSM View Post
I'm such a Windu fanboy. I wish there were more novels on him than comics. lol.


Personally I'm an Obi Wan Kenobi fanboy and lucky for me there's a lot of books on him. Lol

BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
12.27.2011 , 08:46 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Rhyltran View Post
Personally I'm an Obi Wan Kenobi fanboy and lucky for me there's a lot of books on him. Lol
I haven't read much on him. I haven't read ROTS in 1-2 years.


I know, he's the master of Soresu, got one of the most strongest Force Pushes of his time and Anakin managed to match it in their duel on Mustafar. Had a small relationship with Satine, was a master negotiator and so on and so on from the movies and cartoons. I'll have to demo a chapter of one of his novels next time I'm at Barnes.


Anyway back on topic.

So this discussion is settled, Sidious was more powerful than Yoda. Thanks for the information.
Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."

Newsinz's Avatar


Newsinz
12.28.2011 , 12:25 AM | #19
It would depend... Yoda absorbed most of his attacks lol.. He got lucky with that fight. Fact of the matter is. It would depend on the situation. Like Bane for example... he was smart. he would not fight someone unless he knew the odds were in his favor.

Everything is calculated on the current situation. Making it really hard to judge who would win.

BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
12.28.2011 , 12:28 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Newsinz View Post
It would depend... Yoda absorbed most of his attacks lol.. He got lucky with that fight. Fact of the matter is. It would depend on the situation. Like Bane for example... he was smart. he would not fight someone unless he knew the odds were in his favor.

Everything is calculated on the current situation. Making it really hard to judge who would win.
Yoda didn't win that fight...




Whenever Bane fought it always seemed like he was outnumbered, and then he would kill everyone in the room..
Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."