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LFM Etiquette


wainot-keel's Avatar


wainot-keel
06.05.2014 , 12:26 PM | #11
OP, I think you're overthinking things way too much.

Like it's been pointed out, many times it just starts by exactly one guy/gal, who doesn't wait for others to start it. That's commedable I think. I imagine you only want to see the "ads" on fleet only when there's only few spots left which means a short wait until actually it starts. We all do, but someone gotta start it somewhere and sometimes it means is not so convenient and one has to be a bit patient. Gold spammers, troll beggars and Hodors will have share the spot on fleet chat.

How you do know the other 15 will manage/will do a full run ? You don't. No one does. You don't have any control over the others and their actual intentions of doing the full run or not. But you can still aim for that

Be geared ? The issue is too long to have it discussed on fleet chat. If someone asks for "geared" and I show up just freshed out of Oricon with 26k hp I know someone might say something. If I have 33k then nobody will say anything unless I have the wrong mainstat. Personallly, I would prefer not saying anything about gear (and decide case by case ) or asking a minimun number of hp, so there is no wondering about it.

As for the for "know tacts" bit not sure what to think. In your first paragraph, you're saying the s/he, the recruiter, can't actually know if the tanks know what to do for example, but then you have issues with this knowledge being required, which is as much one can do when you pug in order to have at least a small degree of certainty for a full clear.

If someone starts recruiting for an op from scratch, which is alone by themselves, let them be.

Maldorans's Avatar


Maldorans
06.05.2014 , 12:37 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by wainot-keel View Post
OP, I think you're overthinking things way too much.

Like it's been pointed out, many times it just starts by exactly one guy/gal, who doesn't wait for others to start it. That's commedable I think. I imagine you only want to see the "ads" on fleet only when there's only few spots left which means a short wait until actually it starts. We all do, but someone gotta start it somewhere and sometimes it means is not so convenient and one has to be a bit patient. Gold spammers, troll beggars and Hodors will have share the spot on fleet chat.

How you do know the other 15 will manage/will do a full run ? You don't. No one does. You don't have any control over the others and their actual intentions of doing the full run or not. But you can still aim for that

Be geared ? The issue is too long to have it discussed on fleet chat. If someone asks for "geared" and I show up just freshed out of Oricon with 26k hp I know someone might say something. If I have 33k then nobody will say anything unless I have the wrong mainstat. Personallly, I would prefer not saying anything about gear (and decide case by case ) or asking a minimun number of hp, so there is no wondering about it.

As for the for "know tacts" bit not sure what to think. In your first paragraph, you're saying the s/he, the recruiter, can't actually know if the tanks know what to do for example, but then you have issues with this knowledge being required, which is as much one can do when you pug in order to have at least a small degree of certainty for a full clear.

If someone starts recruiting for an op from scratch, which is alone by themselves, let them be.
I agree with some of what you say. I did say in my opening post that I didn't know why it got me annoyed.

Also, if it's a single tank that starts a pug, I find I have no issue with that whatsoever. It only annoys me when it's a single DPS. A single DPS who demands tactics and gear while pugging the entire raid. The phrase 'beggars can't be choosers' comes to mind. I have a guild I run things with, but for my alst who cant be on at the same time, I need to pug. I dont know why it bugs me, but it certainly does.
Tally Ho For the Empire!

Ehbuse's Avatar


Ehbuse
06.05.2014 , 01:32 PM | #13
So then only tanks can start raids in your eyes. You must be a tank on your main

Maldorans's Avatar


Maldorans
06.05.2014 , 03:20 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by HBCentaurion View Post
So basically you want a ton of players just spamming fleet with DPS LFG instead of trying to form a group themselves?

Instead of 6 solo DPS all trying to start the same pug OP. 12 tanks and 24 healers on the fleet willing to pug at a given time are few and far between.
Tally Ho For the Empire!

TheRandomno's Avatar


TheRandomno
06.05.2014 , 03:59 PM | #15
So... a tank can start a DP PuG can he? But not a DPS? Something about tanking and kiting...

A tank doesn't know how well the other tank's gonna be. Or if the kiting DPS is gonna move enough. He's gonna know about as much as a tank would about his group.

Why is a DPS looking for a group, not starting his own group? Who starts that group the DPS is looking for? Sometimes you have to take the courage and actually lead an op. By the tricky bosses you'll know how all of your team are doing.

Quote: Originally Posted by Maldorans View Post
Also, if it's a single tank that starts a pug, I find I have no issue with that whatsoever. It only annoys me when it's a single DPS. A single DPS who demands tactics and gear while pugging the entire raid. The phrase 'beggars can't be choosers' comes to mind. I have a guild I run things with, but for my alst who cant be on at the same time, I need to pug. I dont know why it bugs me, but it certainly does.
Cos the tank's the one all the enemies are on? Cos he's the one with the most HP? A tank demanding tactics and gear you have no issue with...?

Explain this please? The fact DPS are the simplest to find? Why not make a healer the leader? He's the one who's gonna be keeping the people who suck alive.
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Maldorans's Avatar


Maldorans
06.05.2014 , 04:44 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by TheRandomno View Post
So... a tank can start a DP PuG can he? But not a DPS? Something about tanking and kiting...

A tank doesn't know how well the other tank's gonna be. Or if the kiting DPS is gonna move enough. He's gonna know about as much as a tank would about his group.

Why is a DPS looking for a group, not starting his own group? Who starts that group the DPS is looking for? Sometimes you have to take the courage and actually lead an op. By the tricky bosses you'll know how all of your team are doing.



Cos the tank's the one all the enemies are on? Cos he's the one with the most HP? A tank demanding tactics and gear you have no issue with...?

Explain this please? The fact DPS are the simplest to find? Why not make a healer the leader? He's the one who's gonna be keeping the people who suck alive.
Tanks contoll the flow of fights. The pace of the raid.

Anyway, already said this. DPS are ten a penny. Tanks and healers are not. When you have 6 solo DPS all trying to pug the same raid, you end up with 6 raids that end up not starting. As they only have 1 tank and 2 heals. So does the other raid group. Now if a tank started that, you're halfway there to the hardest part of getting two tanks on a busy, tankless server.

Each to thier own. I don't know how many times I've said in this thread I don't know why it bugs me. I know that it does though.

But continue to rant at me..............
Tally Ho For the Empire!

Dras_Keto's Avatar


Dras_Keto
06.05.2014 , 05:22 PM | #17
It doesnt matter what role the char is leading the group if that person knows what they are doing, can explain what to do clearly, and the rest of the raid is willing to listen and learn and are at least competent.

Unfortunately, that last bit is the big hang up.

It shows up most clearly on tanks because their job is a straight, binary pass/fail. They either do it right, or typically the entire raid dies. Its a lot harder to tell if a dps who is sitting there whaling on the boss is doing their job properly or not. There are definitely ways to do it, but they are all far less obvious than a mechanic failing because the boss wasnt moved or the tank losing aggro and sitting there impotently watching the boss murder the raid group one by one.

JouerTue's Avatar


JouerTue
06.05.2014 , 05:27 PM | #18
if i'm looking for pugs i just stare at gen chat for a while and start one myself if i see no lfm but enough lfg.

said so..raid leading, even if it's story mode i'll switch to tank or healer if i need to. tactics will be explained to first timers and undergeared players kicked after a good old inspect. i don't mind 156 unaugmented or blackmarket..those are fine for SM..just i don't like 140 hilts on dps/healers or such underperforming gear.

first timers need to say so and i'll briefly explain tactics at bosses, with easing schems like marking a dps to follow or giving announcements during the fight. everybody needs to learn..and it would be better to read around some guide, but again sm is so easy.

i didn't remember people giving up in a sm pug i lead..maybe someone leaving but that happens in smooth OPdps runs.

i've 12 chars on the red eclipse so i know well that habitat..

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
06.05.2014 , 05:28 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Maldorans View Post
When you have 6 solo DPS all trying to pug the same raid, you end up with 6 raids that end up not starting. As they only have 1 tank and 2 heals. So does the other raid group.
Doesn't make sense. If one dps is advertising for a group, and another dps comes to the fleet and wants to raid, why would he/she start a separate group, rather than join the one already being advertised?

slafko's Avatar


slafko
06.06.2014 , 12:57 AM | #20
What I never understood was "GROUP LF 2 TANKS 4 HEALS 9 DPS" types of LFG.

Basic math maybe? I mean, if you're really a one-man-group, surely you can obliterate the ops by yourself. It worked well enough for John Rambo.
I see their R2 droid and I grab it. No, you can't have it back, silly rabbit!