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BioWare, your bug-laden operations are driving players away from the game

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
BioWare, your bug-laden operations are driving players away from the game

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
06.03.2014 , 12:20 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Shandellon View Post
But as I say, I never encountered random threat lose on guardian, nor a misbehaving slam
That's because the Guardians don't randomly drop threat. They do fail to telegraph a natural threat swap though. In other words, a melee can rip off of you, but the Guardian still appears to be facing towards you and even animates as hitting you. If Slam happens at that point, the animation will be towards you, but the actual effect will be towards the melee who pulled. This is essentially the origin of the "misbehaving slam". Combine this with the legitimate threat wipe which happens when they jump away to Ravage, and you have a mechanic which appears incredibly mystifying when you're trying to progress on it.

The solution is to hold agro like your life depends on it. Having one DPS hold one of the guardians untouched is a good solution if you don't have an off taunt. My group just has the main tank (me) pick up both the boss and one of the guardians, and that's the guardian we kill last. It works remarkably well except for the occasional RNG boss yank landing the target in the Slam.
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Faardor's Avatar


Faardor
06.03.2014 , 03:16 PM | #12
Theres definitely some bugged deaths there but also deaths caused by latency. While filming / streaming fights are cool and all it reduces your internet speed (mostly upload speed which is what is used for you to communicate with the server) So while you see yourself at position X the game sees you at position Y and you die simply because communication between you and the server at some point easily couldve caused you to go out of 'synch'

I would recommend not streaming fights unless you have godlike internet (and computer for that matter since streaming requires a fair bit of your computer) And instead I would just recommend recording a fight using an offline recorder. Also in order to reduce the latency differences between you (and your group) have yourself and your group move IMMEDIATELY when they see the purple slam of death and not a second or two in

DarthTexas's Avatar


DarthTexas
06.03.2014 , 07:16 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Faardor View Post
Theres definitely some bugged deaths there but also deaths caused by latency. While filming / streaming fights are cool and all it reduces your internet speed (mostly upload speed which is what is used for you to communicate with the server) So while you see yourself at position X the game sees you at position Y and you die simply because communication between you and the server at some point easily couldve caused you to go out of 'synch'

I would recommend not streaming fights unless you have godlike internet (and computer for that matter since streaming requires a fair bit of your computer) And instead I would just recommend recording a fight using an offline recorder. Also in order to reduce the latency differences between you (and your group) have yourself and your group move IMMEDIATELY when they see the purple slam of death and not a second or two in
8 people dying to slams pointed in the wrong direction is not latency. Also, my PC and connection are plenty beefy enough to stream. The 2 streams show the exact same thing happening, that wouldn't be the case if one of us were having latency issues, or unless both of us had the exact same latency issues, which we don't. The encounter is bugged.

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RikuvonDrake's Avatar


RikuvonDrake
06.03.2014 , 09:46 PM | #14
We treated it as a threat issue and gave our tanks more time on the guardians and saved aggro reduce for these particular phases and it worked for us. Ask your tanks to, as KeyboardNinja says,"hold agro like your life depends on it" and you will notice how the amount of troll guardian slams is reduced to 0.
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Maldorans's Avatar


Maldorans
06.04.2014 , 02:11 PM | #15
"your bug-laden operations are driving players away from the game"

and then you mention one. Just one. No more. Where is the laden full of bugs?

qq
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ScicleX's Avatar


ScicleX
06.04.2014 , 05:20 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Maldorans View Post
"your bug-laden operations are driving players away from the game"

and then you mention one. Just one. No more. Where is the laden full of bugs?

qq
The key issue is the Guardian's Slam mechanic not correctly indicating where it will hit, but there is also the bug with Draxus' aggro table that locks onto a target and cannot be affected by taunts, and the Slam indicator clipping into the staircases instead of layering on top of them. There has also been many, many, many other bugs in the past that haven't been fixed yet as well as a lot of performance issues (even for those with good machines/internet connections) in many boss fights where the Enemies and/or Mechanics don't appear properly or at all in most cases. When doing HM content you can sort of work with them to get it done, but in NiM there is no room for error and these issues create an unrealistic challenge for the end-game raiders that either can't afford a better computer, or have a good computer and still experience the same issues.
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KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
06.04.2014 , 05:38 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by ScicleX View Post
The key issue is the Guardian's Slam mechanic not correctly indicating where it will hit, but there is also the bug with Draxus' aggro table that locks onto a target and cannot be affected by taunts, and the Slam indicator clipping into the staircases instead of layering on top of them. There has also been many, many, many other bugs in the past that haven't been fixed yet as well as a lot of performance issues (even for those with good machines/internet connections) in many boss fights where the Enemies and/or Mechanics don't appear properly or at all in most cases. When doing HM content you can sort of work with them to get it done, but in NiM there is no room for error and these issues create an unrealistic challenge for the end-game raiders that either can't afford a better computer, or have a good computer and still experience the same issues.
Considering how far Bioware has come, I'm inclined to cut them a bit of slack. Buggy content sucks, and Bioware's internal Q/A team is basically the opposite of thorough. However, think back a bit. Did you ever try to clear Soa NiM at launch? The bugs in that fight make every single boss that has come after look like a paragon of testing.
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ScicleX's Avatar


ScicleX
06.04.2014 , 06:07 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
Considering how far Bioware has come, I'm inclined to cut them a bit of slack. Buggy content sucks, and Bioware's internal Q/A team is basically the opposite of thorough. However, think back a bit. Did you ever try to clear Soa NiM at launch? The bugs in that fight make every single boss that has come after look like a paragon of testing.
I have, and while you do make a good point, the difference here is the time-restrained rewards that have been made harder to achieve because of bugs in the operations that haven't been addressed for an extended period of time. If something like a one-time only reward is to be offered to those that can beat this instance in the game, then that instance should be tuned and tested well enough to ensure that no bugs or min/spec machines could hinder any progress a team might make.

The issue itself could be dealt with and we wouldn't have reacted so abruptly as our progression thus far has never been on par with the release of new content, we're understanding people and don't ever ask too much from the game. EA has forced the issue with the time sensitive rewards and I feel that when something like that is put into the game that all players should have a fair and equal opportunity to achieve them without being held back by machines that meet minimum spec for the game, or by bugs that have been pointed out during the short time period of the NiM buff that weren't addressed in the same time-frame.

We feel like we have put forth additional effort to help address the issues that have been present in the game since day 1, and have included helpful information at multiple times through in-game tickets, SWTOR Forums, PTS feedback, and even the rare Face-to-Face with a follow up email. With all of this in mind we were under the impression something would have happened to make things better for the game as a whole, but they haven't and it leaves us feeling unappreciated as long-time subscribers and part of one of the biggest Guilds on our server.
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Typeslice's Avatar


Typeslice
06.04.2014 , 07:19 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthTexas View Post
There are countless examples of the plethora of bugs throughout the game, especially in operations. It's getting to the point that many in my guild are contemplating leaving and never giving another dime to BioWare.

Last night our guild spent a frustrating 3 hours on Draxxus in 16m Nightmare DF. We repeatedly had issues with people dying to Guardian slams that would slam in a completely different spot than the visual indicator. Our raiders continually said they were getting hit by slams despite being out of the purple slam area. I didn't buy the excuse until it happened to me personally and we went back and looked at the video. It turns out my raid members were right, and they were getting out of the slam area but still getting hit by slam, and we have video proof of it.

TL: DR version: the slam hits where the Guardian has aggro and NOT where purple indicator shows the slam will hit.

Here are some visual examples:
http://www.twitch.tv/arlancotp/b/534556604
2:58:58 - Look at where the purple slam target is, look at the right of the screen and you see the tank Drekk'en has aggro, the slam hits the target with aggro and NOT the purple target area and kills 3 people that were outside of the purple
2:59:15 - same exact thing happens, the slam hits the area where the Guardian's aggro target is, NOT in the purple area marking where the slam should be, killing 4 people, including a tank and all remaining DPS
(same fight, different perspective: http://www.twitch.tv/kaelandros/b/534555026, the slams shown above start at 3:05:05)

There are probably multiple examples of this throughout the night, but this attempt has the most obvious examples of the problem, and we were especially upset about it as the boss would have been killed had the slams functioned correctly and not killed people that had correctly moved out of the purple slam area.

This bug is just one of many adding to our growing frustration with BioWare.

Here's a message I sent to BioWare months ago at their request after meeting them in Phoenix. After sending the message I never heard back from them, this is just another example of how poorly operations function in SWTOR.



I'm still waiting for acknowledgement from BioWare on this.

My guild is full of players that love Star Wars and enjoy raiding, but our patience is almost run out.
Happened to us our first handful of pulls, but hasn't happened since. Set your ranged and healers up at his original spawn point during all guardian phases, have the tanks angle them slightly to the walls on the stairs. It will completely negate the visual issue with the slams. Also - kill them one at a time, don't split dps like the rest of the fight.
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Prototypemind's Avatar


Prototypemind
06.04.2014 , 09:58 PM | #20
Our Raptus experience tonight:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=745457

We clear this weekly, never see bugs mounting to this extent. It's one thing to have a few issues, but to the point that they mount up and continually kill players and make it impossible to clear is beyond a pain. Tonight was just damn frustrating.