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Rework 2.6 Concealment Operative Changes

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Rework 2.6 Concealment Operative Changes

Ilyrian's Avatar


Ilyrian
02.04.2014 , 12:32 PM | #1
Dear TaitWatson and CourtneyWoods and ChrisSchmidt and EricMusco,

Let me start off by saying that I don't normally post on the forums for feedback, but I feel obligated to do so for this topic.

I have been playing a concealment Operative in PvP for the past year. I have always thought that we needed a little more love in terms of survivability, and perhaps a bit more sustained damage to make us more viable for OPS and other PvE content. I understand that balancing for both PvP and PvE is difficult. So let us assume for now that I am only referring to PvP balancing. Concealment Operatives are a stealth burst class. Burst being the key.

When I saw and tested the proposed changes for concealment in 2.6 on the PST, I had a good laugh with other concealment enthusiasts. The consensus was that the damage buff was too great. It resulted in over 4,000 DPS OPS dummy parses on a class with great raid utility (higher than any parse by a Marauder - which is a pure-damage melee class with no self-cleanse, off-heals, or revive ability), and hilariously high burst and sustained damage in PvP. We enjoyed it while it lasted on the PTS. However, we figured that between the testing and the implementation of the proposed changes, they would be re-balanced.

Now 2.6 has arrived and there has been no re-balancing. Perhaps it was my fault to assume that there would be enough of an outcry to rework some of the changes (although I have seen plenty of good feedback on this subject from others). I am hereby correcting my mistake - please rework the concealment operative changes. It is simply too much burst and sustained damage, if not for PvE, then for PvP alone.
Cøn - Snipes Repø - Merc Ohh - PT
Recruitment Officer of hmd MAGENTA
The Man Legacy "Blame it on Ily." - AoH

Technohic's Avatar


Technohic
02.04.2014 , 12:38 PM | #2
They’d love to do that at some point, but "technically very challenging and unlikely to happen in the near future."
Technohic - Sniper | Techno-Hic - Gunslinger | Cihonhcet - Scoundrel
Karnrage - Assassin | Egarnrak - Sage
Techen - Merc | Nehcet - Vanguard | Carnrage - Marauder | Egarnrac - Guardian
POT5

JoolsW's Avatar


JoolsW
02.04.2014 , 12:41 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Ilyrian View Post
Dear TaitWatson and CourtneyWoods and ChrisSchmidt and EricMusco,

Let me start off by saying that I don't normally post on the forums for feedback, but I feel obligated to do so for this topic.

I have been playing a concealment Operative in PvP for the past year. I have always thought that we needed a little more love in terms of survivability, and perhaps a bit more sustained damage to make us more viable for OPS and other PvE content. I understand that balancing for both PvP and PvE is difficult. So let us assume for now that I am only referring to PvP balancing. Concealment Operatives are a stealth burst class. Burst being the key.

When I saw and tested the proposed changes for concealment in 2.6 on the PST, I had a good laugh with other concealment enthusiasts. The consensus was that the damage buff was too great. It resulted in over 4,000 DPS OPS dummy parses on a class with great raid utility (higher than any parse by a Marauder - which is a pure-damage melee class with no self-cleanse, off-heals, or revive ability), and hilariously high burst and sustained damage in PvP. We enjoyed it while it lasted on the PTS. However, we figured that between the testing and the implementation of the proposed changes, they would be re-balanced.

Now 2.6 has arrived and there has been no re-balancing. Perhaps it was my fault to assume that there would be enough of an outcry to rework some of the changes (although I have seen plenty of good feedback on this subject from others). I am hereby correcting my mistake - please rework the concealment operative changes. It is simply too much burst and sustained damage, if not for PvE, then for PvP alone.
Everything this guy said x100. I pretty much have no reason to play my marauder over my operative anymore because he just does it better with more perks. The changes needed to buff concealment were minimal at best, they were still a more than viable choice for operatives. To say they went overboard was an understatement. Now they dominate in both healing AND dps. I don't know why Bioware is trying to make op/scoundrel the super class.

Jorojus's Avatar


Jorojus
02.04.2014 , 12:55 PM | #4
So where are these so called "parses" ? Not much point in just calling a number, I can do that too you know.

5000 dps uhmm on my sniper engineering, there ... see ?
The Progenitor
Shin'ju - Operative / Kor'n - Juggernaut / Lissa'nana - Sith sorcerer
Booya - Powertech Moderated swtor forum opening in 2014.
Wea_relegion_swtor

countpopeula's Avatar


countpopeula
02.04.2014 , 12:57 PM | #5
It's problematic. Insanely so. I logged onto my Operative, whom I have for almost exactly 2 years. I have never, ever once DPS'd on her. Not even once. Once I hit level 10, It was straight flashpoint and PvP healing. The only DPS I've ever done on her is technical while in heal spec, I would swap to doing damaging attacks to kill low players and give our team the DPS boost they needed to wipe an objective. Today I logged in and spec'd Concealment. In 100% healing gear, with 5 Alacrity enhancements, I was consistently hitting for 8k Hidden Strikes, 6-8k Backstabs, and 3 glowballing players. There was one 10k hit mixed in. I have yet to see a match where damage from any player eclipses 550-600k, because people aren't alive long enough for sustained engagements. Two Operatives jump onto someone, and 3-4 globals later it's dead.

I'm very honest when it comes to balance within games I play. My main has been a Marauder since launch, and I have been supportive of a Rage/Smash damage nerf since 1.2. I have an Assassin and I think Deception needs a small damage nerf, or a change to their survivability cooldowns. This is the first time I've played a spec and said "This is 100% gamebreaking". I think this needs a quick response from the BW staff and an immediate change, it threatens an already hurting PvP community.
Ranick
hmd MAGENTA

JoolsW's Avatar


JoolsW
02.04.2014 , 12:58 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Cwild View Post
HAHAHAHahhahahaahHAHAHAHAAHHAhahahahahahahHAHAHAHA H


Pre 1.2 all over again. Cry rivers my friends, keep on crying.

You all deserve it for us being **** for 2 years+ while you guys got to have all the fun.

Super viable? Our heals were viable...scrapper was not.

How many scrappers were brought into 4v4 arenas?

How many scrappers got raid spots as scrapper?

This community is literally hilarious.

Love it
This would be worth reading if the OP was actually complaining about the class without having played it, but he isnt. Hes complaining because its *********** easy-mode as a concealment op with the damage as it is and even those who play that class as their mains can see that. There's always going to be those who will defend a patch that makes their class overpowered. You said it yourself 'us being **** for 2 years+'. That comment right there reaks of just being butthurt for being bad at your own class.

gofortheko's Avatar


gofortheko
02.04.2014 , 01:02 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by countpopeula View Post
It's problematic. Insanely so. I logged onto my Operative, whom I have for almost exactly 2 years. I have never, ever once DPS'd on her. Not even once. Once I hit level 10, It was straight flashpoint and PvP healing. The only DPS I've ever done on her is technical while in heal spec, I would swap to doing damaging attacks to kill low players and give our team the DPS boost they needed to wipe an objective. Today I logged in and spec'd Concealment. In 100% healing gear, with 5 Alacrity enhancements, I was consistently hitting for 8k Hidden Strikes, 6-8k Backstabs, and 3 glowballing players. There was one 10k hit mixed in. I have yet to see a match where damage from any player eclipses 550-600k, because people aren't alive long enough for sustained engagements. Two Operatives jump onto someone, and 3-4 globals later it's dead.

I'm very honest when it comes to balance within games I play. My main has been a Marauder since launch, and I have been supportive of a Rage/Smash damage nerf since 1.2. I have an Assassin and I think Deception needs a small damage nerf, or a change to their survivability cooldowns. This is the first time I've played a spec and said "This is 100% gamebreaking". I think this needs a quick response from the BW staff and an immediate change, it threatens an already hurting PvP community.
Sounds like crying, I still get CCed, and kited just as easy as before, also pre 2.6 if two ops got on someone they died in 3 or 4 globals anyway. Stop QQing because concealment ops are the bane of maras.
Weapon-of War
Juggernaut:Sentinel:Operative:Sage:Commando:Shadow :Guardian
Guild: Ghost Infantry Server: The Harbinger

Technohic's Avatar


Technohic
02.04.2014 , 01:04 PM | #8
I will be honest and say I need to get in and try it first hand, but I just don't think it can be nearly as bad as people post; who at least half of them I know have not even tried it either. Either way, I plan to experience it on both the giving and receiveing end as my slinger always seems to be a juicy morsel for stealthies to come after.
Technohic - Sniper | Techno-Hic - Gunslinger | Cihonhcet - Scoundrel
Karnrage - Assassin | Egarnrak - Sage
Techen - Merc | Nehcet - Vanguard | Carnrage - Marauder | Egarnrac - Guardian
POT5

Cwild's Avatar


Cwild
02.04.2014 , 01:07 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by JoolsW View Post
This would be worth reading if the OP was actually complaining about the class without having played it, but he isnt. Hes complaining because its *********** easy-mode as a concealment op with the damage as it is and even those who play that class as their mains can see that. There's always going to be those who will defend a patch that makes their class overpowered. You said it yourself 'us being **** for 2 years+'. That comment right there reaks of just being butthurt for being bad at your own class.
Except I'm not bad and was one of the most active membesr on the operative forums years ago, you can still pull up my posts trying to encourage people to play it while every cried and called themselves garbage. Feel free to auto assume though. I'm simply finding this comical because it is like this every patch. Wah wah wah overpowered this overpowered that. It never changes. The class was **** in any competetive format. Normal warzones are not real pvp. 8v8 was and now arena is. Conc/Scrapper was not viable there since live....and to be honest wont be now. (THAT IS WHAT IM REFERRING TO)

Wah wah wah

Cwild's Avatar


Cwild
02.04.2014 , 01:10 PM | #10
This will change once people get bored of the FOTM, it always happens. They will go back to smash because they like bigger aoe numbers. They will go back to healing because they are getting killed in 4 globals. Just takes time for things to happen.