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Need vs Greed Loot W****s


Fiamma_Verde's Avatar


Fiamma_Verde
12.23.2013 , 11:06 AM | #11
I remember one time a friend was putting together a SM DP. I wanted to bring a new toon to heal (decently geared but no set bonus), we got the group together but couldn't find a second healer so I agreed to solo heal it on my overgeared main on the condition that I could roll on a set piece for the alt that I wanted to bring.

Nobody had a problem with it until we started downing bosses and the guy in 66blues made me feel guilty about rolling, and the majority of the group backed him. It was a fun run but I really wanted the experience/gear for my alt. :-/

Solar_Breeze's Avatar


Solar_Breeze
12.23.2013 , 01:12 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by slafko View Post
My guild follows the same looting rules as the one you're bashing here: NEED = main chars, GREED = alts and companions.
I am not 'bashing' Need & Greed systems. At the same time your guild does not run a Need/Greed system. It runs a Priority system with small amount of loot council. This is exactly what I was referring to when I said that players who dislike public runs with Need/Greed should join a guild and run with them instead.

In addition, off topic, your looting rules appear to reward those who do the least work for their gear. If I go out and run multiple story mode runs to get coms mods and enhancements why should I not get an item because it is of less benefit (less + stat) just because a member hasn't bothered to do this and turns up in lower quality gear?

There are always issues with guilds looting systems see the above paragraph but the OP's question was for pug groups.
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RedHatGuy's Avatar


RedHatGuy
12.23.2013 , 04:12 PM | #13
I have run into this before and had people tell me I couldnt roll because I'm over geared. My response is well would you prefer I drop out of the group and stop main tanking carrying your group through this content? Response is always no.


It is completely unfair to expect someone to pass on all rolls because you are undergeared compared to them. Just because they put in more time and work on thier characters doesnt mean they dont deserve any loot for doing the same amount of work you do. I drop out of pugs constantly because I flat out tell them this before we start, if its on ML I make sure they know that I will be rolling for alts or even just to vendor because I'm not going to farm an S&V HM for pugs that I will probably never run with again.
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LordKantner's Avatar


LordKantner
12.23.2013 , 07:54 PM | #14
Guild rules are one thing.

In pug groups, it should not matter what your gear level is like compared to others nor should there be a priority for the less geared people. If that was the case then the idiots who are still not in 72/78 at this point would get all the gear.

Again I am talking about pug groups, with pretty much strangers you are raiding with.

Everyone in the pug group is putting the same amount of time into that raid. Therefore, everyone should have an equal chance to roll in that raid regardless of anything.

Just because I put more time into my characters should not exempt me from rolling on gear.
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mastirkal's Avatar


mastirkal
12.23.2013 , 09:17 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by LordKantner View Post
Guild rules are one thing.

In pug groups, it should not matter what your gear level is like compared to others nor should there be a priority for the less geared people. If that was the case then the idiots who are still not in 72/78 at this point would get all the gear.

Again I am talking about pug groups, with pretty much strangers you are raiding with.

Everyone in the pug group is putting the same amount of time into that raid. Therefore, everyone should have an equal chance to roll in that raid regardless of anything.

Just because I put more time into my characters should not exempt me from rolling on gear.
Went on my character for the hell of it for a DF SM, people got butt hurt when I started winning some rolls and this was my exact answer before I was booted. I don't need anything from here for this character. I want to gear my alt. I put in the effort I deserve just a good of a chance to roll as anyone else. Guess that logic doesn't fly. I'm expected to be some sort of saint who does a pug run to be "charitable" because I'm almost min maxed.

Sith-Viscera's Avatar


Sith-Viscera
12.23.2013 , 09:27 PM | #16
Hey i let those people in group have almost all if i already have it or better then it or not i usually let the others fight over it, every now and then i think, Why shouldn't i get a Piece of the action even if i don't need it i think i deserve something even if i gave it to an alt or give it to my crew or just sell it make a little something something off of it. I do think the system should recognize who clicks on item first give them the first piece and keep track and make sure all parties in the group gets at least one reward other then comms.

reallynotanerd's Avatar


reallynotanerd
12.23.2013 , 10:14 PM | #17
Everyone pretty much knows already, unless you establish something else before hand or ask before the role: Need on stuff you need, as in that item will make your guy better so you should get a top pick to get the gear over anyone who just wants it. Greed if you just want the gear, for whatever reason. I don't care if you just want to drag the gear out of your inventory to sacrifice it to your voodoo god, you get the same priority on that gear as the guy who wants to dress his heavy armor companion in light armor robes because he thinks it looks better.

I'm the Tank/Best geared here! Give me all the loots! Yeah, you get kicked/ignored by anyone with a set of balls. I want all my little companions to have nice gear, but as a normal human I understand that the poor healer needs that cunning chest more than my dps companion I never use anyway, or that noob I swear I am going to have maxed out "soon". I love people saying that they should get everything because they worked harder...what do you think the guys running the FP for loot are doing?

Anyway, last note: Try to get some social skills. You will be amazed how many people will tell you to go ahead and roll need after you explain yourself. But that same person will kick you in a second for being a ninja.

Fidelicatessen's Avatar


Fidelicatessen
12.23.2013 , 10:20 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by mastirkal View Post
Went on my character for the hell of it for a DF SM, people got butt hurt when I started winning some rolls and this was my exact answer before I was booted. I don't need anything from here for this character. I want to gear my alt. I put in the effort I deserve just a good of a chance to roll as anyone else. Guess that logic doesn't fly. I'm expected to be some sort of saint who does a pug run to be "charitable" because I'm almost min maxed.
You either do the Op for FUN (imagine that! having fun in an MMO!), or you don't do it at all. If you're SO OVERGEARED that you need nothing from the op, then no, it's not at all fair that you roll need on stuff you don't need on the toon you're using for the op. I run lower-level ops all the time to help my friends and guild. I roll greed on the stuff that isn't an upgrade for me because, y'know what? That's the fair thing to do.

If you don't like that, then don't run ops for gear that doesn't suit you, or be very up-front about it so people can know how greedy you are and decide then and there whether they want you along.

mastirkal's Avatar


mastirkal
12.24.2013 , 12:32 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Fidelicatessen View Post
You either do the Op for FUN (imagine that! having fun in an MMO!), or you don't do it at all. If you're SO OVERGEARED that you need nothing from the op, then no, it's not at all fair that you roll need on stuff you don't need on the toon you're using for the op. I run lower-level ops all the time to help my friends and guild. I roll greed on the stuff that isn't an upgrade for me because, y'know what? That's the fair thing to do.

If you don't like that, then don't run ops for gear that doesn't suit you, or be very up-front about it so people can know how greedy you are and decide then and there whether they want you along.
Gearing my alts is fun. Aren't you being a bit assuming to tell me what I can and can't do. I'm fair with the general loot, I take one set piece and I'm done, is that so inhumane to try and take an Arkansan or underworld for my alt? To be honest, your opinion is worth dick to me anyway, but the question remains, why shouldn't I get a piece of gear for my alt? Why should I do ops runs out of the goodness of my heart? Why can't I run old content on my over geared character so I don't have to use the lesser geared and potently struggle more?

I'm not a nice person. I owe my allegiance to my guild and my team. I don't care for Joe Blow, but I'm not going to **** him over either. I'm fair, but it becomes an issue when I am told I can't have a piece of loot because I'm over geared. If I win a /roll over someone else I deserve the loot, no questions asked. It becomes a problem when you start taking more and more on a single run, that is just being a ninja through and through, but expecting the ability to roll on a piece that you could use elsewhere makes you an ***? Really? I don't believe that's the right way to think about it. Sure that new player could use it, but so can I. I came into this raid at either 1/8 or 1/16 of needed effort and completed it just like that newer or lesser geared player did. I deserve the same chance to win something and place it on an alt I plan to play with anyway.

I don't believe this nice guy mentality is right. Everyone should get the opportunity to roll, everyone should have the ability to win.

slafko's Avatar


slafko
12.24.2013 , 01:20 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Solar_Breeze View Post
I am not 'bashing' Need & Greed systems.
You're not? Could have fooled me.

Quote: Originally Posted by Solar_Breeze View Post
In addition, off topic, your looting rules appear to reward those who do the least work for their gear. If I go out and run multiple story mode runs to get coms mods and enhancements why should I not get an item because it is of less benefit (less + stat) just because a member hasn't bothered to do this and turns up in lower quality gear?
The operative word here being appear.