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What's so special about Humans in the Sith Empire? (Minor Spoilers)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
What's so special about Humans in the Sith Empire? (Minor Spoilers)

Lecaja's Avatar


Lecaja
11.14.2013 , 11:41 PM | #1
I am reading Star Wars Annihilation, which by the way is an excellent epilogue to the game, and there are only two species that aren't considered inferior by the Dark Council. Humans and Pure Blooded Sith. Having played the game I know heritage and bloodline is important but in terms of lore I don't understand what elevates humans from everyone else.

jovianus's Avatar


jovianus
11.15.2013 , 02:48 AM | #2
Because, in case the whole blowing up entire planets and being run by the Evil Emperor wasn't enough to tell us that the Empire in the movies were the bad guys, they also made them arbitrarily humanocentric racists in a setting where humans and aliens have lived and worked together for tens of thousands of years. TOR is just stuck with the same silliness.

AlexDougherty's Avatar


AlexDougherty
11.15.2013 , 09:05 AM | #3
Also the Sith Purebloods interbred with Humans, so the Sith bloodllines slowly became Human bloodlines, and the Sith Purebloods became a subset of Humanity rather than a species in their own right.
Peace can be found, above all passions. Through passion, I may gain strength.
Through strength, I may gain power. Through power, I may gain victory.
But for every enemy fallen, a new foe rises.
For every chain broken, new chains bind me. Only the Force can set me free.

StarMagus's Avatar


StarMagus
11.15.2013 , 09:18 AM | #4
I thought the big thing about humans was the fact that they were one of the few races sith could breed with, so as the Sith race starts to die off, passing on via humans is a viable way to keep part of their legacy around.

Ashuranrx's Avatar


Ashuranrx
11.15.2013 , 03:14 PM | #5
Because Ajunta Pall was the first one who taught the dark side to the Sith, and he was human. Ajunta Pall was worshipped like a god to the Sith, who are force-sensitive but primitive at the time.

Darkelefantos's Avatar


Darkelefantos
11.16.2013 , 02:58 AM | #6
And, not to forget, they're all British. That's very special.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.16.2013 , 06:53 AM | #7
Because the first Sith were humans, or rather exiled Jedi from Tython who stumbled upon the primitive Sith Species.

They then proceeded to enslave these species using the Force to elevate themselves to the status of gods, over time they interbred and the Sith Pureblood was born. They then began to expand their empire, enslaving 'alien' species to serve as an underclass. We have to remember that the Sith had a rigid caste system of Sith Lords, Preists, Engineers, Warriors (Massassi) and finally the slave caste known as 'Grottha' who were solely comprised of aliens.

So naturally, a xenophobia towards alien species is going to develop in such a caste-based culture, and humans and Sith are going to be elevated. This is not some arbitary attempt on BioWare's part to make the Sith more evil. This is a deep rooted facet of Sith Lore that has been around long before 'The Old Republic' was created.

Stinghen's Avatar


Stinghen
11.16.2013 , 11:03 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Ashuranrx View Post
Because Ajunta Pall was the first one who taught the dark side to the Sith, and he was human. Ajunta Pall was worshipped like a god to the Sith, who are force-sensitive but primitive at the time.
The Book of Sith describes how the Dark Jedi were amazed, and felt it was their destiny to be defeated at Corbos and driven into the Sith Empire, because the Sith had such a rich Dark Side-centric culture, even prior to the arrival of the exiles.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Because the first Sith were humans, or rather exiled Jedi from Tython who stumbled upon the primitive Sith Species.

They then proceeded to enslave these species using the Force to elevate themselves to the status of gods, over time they interbred and the Sith Pureblood was born. They then began to expand their empire, enslaving 'alien' species to serve as an underclass. We have to remember that the Sith had a rigid caste system of Sith Lords, Preists, Engineers, Warriors (Massassi) and finally the slave caste known as 'Grottha' who were solely comprised of aliens.

So naturally, a xenophobia towards alien species is going to develop in such a caste-based culture, and humans and Sith are going to be elevated. This is not some arbitary attempt on BioWare's part to make the Sith more evil. This is a deep rooted facet of Sith Lore that has been around long before 'The Old Republic' was created.
I don't think that justification flies. The original Sith Empire (as depicted in the Tales of the Jedi comic series) did not have any alien species. Mostly, it was located in a Hyperspace breakwater, and few beings managed to navigate into it, which allowed the Empire to stand undiscovered for two thousand years. They had, in fact, become alien to the galaxy in the strictest sense, and few Sith even knew that there was a Galactic Republic out there somewhere until Gav and Jori Daragon found Korriban by accident.

With the passing of the years, the sharp distinction between the Dark Jedi and the Sith species had become blurred, and the Lords of the Sith that had inherited power from their Dark Jedi predecessors (ancestors is too big a word, and two thousand years are more than enough to wrack most, if not all, distinct traits from mixed bloodlines - proof of that is that there were no humans in Naga Sadow's time), had to resort to showing any distinct evolutionary trace (such as having four fingers on the hands instead of three) as hailing from a Dark Jedi bloodline. In those days, what was revered was not pureblood Sith ancestry, but instead any traces of mixed blood. If you think carefully, there is not much chance that mixed blood could be considered a weakness, because the Empire lived in isolation. If there had been much influence of outside species before the Great Hyperspace War, they would not be considered a strength as they were in Sadow's time.

So, the creed of "blood purity" is a characteristic of Vitiate's Empire, not the Old Sith Empire (referring now to the Empire under Naga Sadow, Marka Ragnos and Tulak Hord), and must have been developped during the 1300 years that the "new empire" remained in hiding. After that the Empire would have absorbed aliens into their culture (which were before then absent or at best a minor feature in the wide Empire), and then the "thinning of the blood" would begin.

If I were to hazard a guess into how that exactly played out, I would say Vitiate introduced the xenophobia as a part of the personality cult he ingrained in his empire - in order to keep the Sith Lords in control of things, he needed to create a loathing for alien species amongst both the Sith and the common citizenry of the Empire. And since the Sith had suffered much from the Great Hyperspace War, they may indeed have absorbed alien (in this case, human) populations. That would explain why humans are more numerous than the Red Sith in Vitiate's empire.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.16.2013 , 11:25 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Stinghen View Post
I don't think that justification flies. The original Sith Empire (as depicted in the Tales of the Jedi comic series) did not have any alien species. Mostly, it was located in a Hyperspace breakwater, and few beings managed to navigate into it, which allowed the Empire to stand undiscovered for two thousand years. They had, in fact, become alien to the galaxy in the strictest sense, and few Sith even knew that there was a Galactic Republic out there somewhere until Gav and Jori Daragon found Korriban by accident.

With the passing of the years, the sharp distinction between the Dark Jedi and the Sith species had become blurred, and the Lords of the Sith that had inherited power from their Dark Jedi predecessors (ancestors is too big a word, and two thousand years are more than enough to wrack most, if not all, distinct traits from mixed bloodlines - proof of that is that there were no humans in Naga Sadow's time), had to resort to showing any distinct evolutionary trace (such as having four fingers on the hands instead of three) as hailing from a Dark Jedi bloodline. In those days, what was revered was not pureblood Sith ancestry, but instead any traces of mixed blood. If you think carefully, there is not much chance that mixed blood could be considered a weakness, because the Empire lived in isolation. If there had been much influence of outside species before the Great Hyperspace War, they would not be considered a strength as they were in Sadow's time.

So, the creed of "blood purity" is a characteristic of Vitiate's Empire, not the Old Sith Empire (referring now to the Empire under Naga Sadow, Marka Ragnos and Tulak Hord), and must have been developped during the 1300 years that the "new empire" remained in hiding. After that the Empire would have absorbed aliens into their culture (which were before then absent or at best a minor feature in the wide Empire), and then the "thinning of the blood" would begin.

If I were to hazard a guess into how that exactly played out, I would say Vitiate introduced the xenophobia as a part of the personality cult he ingrained in his empire - in order to keep the Sith Lords in control of things, he needed to create a loathing for alien species amongst both the Sith and the common citizenry of the Empire. And since the Sith had suffered much from the Great Hyperspace War, they may indeed have absorbed alien (in this case, human) populations. That would explain why humans are more numerous than the Red Sith in Vitiate's empire.
So when existing canon doesn't suit your opinion you rewrite it?

Lore on the Sith Empire has moved on since Tales of the Jedi.

Stinghen's Avatar


Stinghen
11.16.2013 , 01:43 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
So when existing canon doesn't suit your opinion you rewrite it?

Lore on the Sith Empire has moved on since Tales of the Jedi.
I am not rewriting anything, I am analysing the circumstances based on what information is available to me. But you probably refer to some retcon material that was introduced after TOR came out to "mend the inconsistencies" (deliberately introduced, mind you) by contradicting previous canon. That's the problem with the EU, and it's really annoying, because it shows a great disrespect towards previous EU authors.

I would think it would be almost second nature to people to try and preserve consistency. There are ways of getting the SWTOR storyline unchanged, without trampling previous canon. Apparently I'm the only one who thinks so. But I haven't heard that social relations in the Sith Empire were completely retconned. The fact remains the same: before, traits that distancd a Sith Lord from the pureblood Sith species were viewed as a sign of a powerful bloodline. Whereas in SWTOR, it's the other way around, people want more Sith-traits so they can claim they descend from powerful bloodlines.

The problem with the SWTOR approach to things is this - why are the Sith xenophobes? If the first Lords of the Sith were aliens to the Sith species, why would their "heirs" have any particular problem with that? They can despise weakness, as every Sith does, but associate blood impurity with weakness would require some better explanation than a sidenote on a retcon sourcebook.

Instead of assuming that has always been the case, why not breathe some life to these fictitious societies, and have them undergo some significant changes over the passing of time, especially after such a galactic upheaval as the Great Hyperspace War? But if you put the Sith Empire in a cast, and just say "no, they always have had craploads of alien species as slaves and they always were xenophobic and they revered purity of Sith blood above all else", you take away from the richness of the Star Wars universe.

And there is another little problem - whereas the Sith Emperor is powerful, I cannot swallow the fact that he could efficiently curb the lust for power of other Sith Lords without a significant change in societal paradigm. Which is to say the Sith changed while under his rule. Look at the Sith code's closing sentences: "Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me." Every Sith who abides by the Sith Code would think of a way to trample the Emperor. That can be lessened, however, by the introduction of the personality cult that is a canon fact. Much like the Nazi society worshipped Hitler's personality. Guess what Hitler also did? He introduced extreme xenophobia to Nazi Germany. In fact, the resemblance between Hitler and Vitiate go beyond - both tried to salvage a failing society, and introduced extremist beliefs, personality cult, racial supremacy xenophobia and paranoia. Both succeeded, and produced fascist states (not that the Sith Empire before Vitiate was not fascist, but that's beside the point) centred around warfare mostly.

So the Empire's xenophobia is a manner to curb the greed of other Sith Lords. If each one thinks he's more worthy of power than his fellow Sith Lord, whom he deems to be of lesser lineage, he'll waste himself plotting against his rival rather than plotting to unseat the Emperor.