Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Ultimate Showdown!!! Exar-Kun meets his match!!!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Ultimate Showdown!!! Exar-Kun meets his match!!!

UndyingHadyn's Avatar


UndyingHadyn
11.11.2013 , 07:17 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
You're not getting the point at all. Exar Kun's Force Blasts are projections (beams, explosions, etc.) of pure Dark Side energy against which there is no defense unless you have an intimate knowledge of Sith Sorcery. Even then, a powerful Sorceress was rendered unconscious by one of Kun's weaker Force Blasts.
LooooL

Sorry, but you're tunneling past my original battle description, by subscribing to the notion that Obi-wan would simply stand there and eat a blast. That's silly, for there are many different ways to win a fight. Obi-wan's situational awareness is much greater than Kun's by default. Read any book on the nature of the force, and especially one that details how powerful Obi-wan actually was. This is pleasant fiction, and an enjoyable discussion, but...

Kun wakes up in jail, amigo... Obi-wan wins this fight.

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
11.11.2013 , 07:20 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by UndyingHadyn View Post
There's absolutely nothing incorrect about it at all!!!

Answering your first point is easy, for Kun's blasts versus a sith, have no similarities at all. This is due to the nature of how darkside users draw upon the force and internalize it before unleashing their fury. Obi-wan is a Jedi. I've already stated how his force powers are one with his surroundings(each molecule), at all times. His ability to foresee the power of Kun's blasts, lesser or greater, would be profoundly better than some second rate sith chick.

Ok, let's say Kun decided to start blasting away straight off against obi-wan. This would probably not occur, for even arrogant little Kun would detect something powerful about Obi-wan's demeanor. Once again..Obi-wan would be wise enough not to head-butt a darkside force blast.

A master of trollesu?? Let's look at Obi's fight against Annikin. There was nothing pretentious about Obi's attitude, for he was faced against a more powerful opponent. So If you suggest that Obi-wan was able to find time to taunt Kun, and thus anger Kun... then that clearly demonstrates, by your own regard, that Obi-wan was handing Kun his own arse to him.
Your first point has missed mine completely, it has nothing to do with how someone uses the Force, the simple fact of the matter is that Keto using her natural affinity for Sorcery to defend herself still got knocked out cold by a minor level Force Blast, Kenobi has no such defence against Kun's blasts and would be seriously injured and/or knocked out by the full-brunt of it's impact.

And once again, Kun has not once allowed his ego to blind him to the reality of the situation nor make him under-estimate his opponents, he respects all worthy opponents and seeks to bring then down hard with no pulling back.

There is a massive difference between fighting any other Sith or Dark Jedi and his own pupil turned Sith Lord Darth Vader, that battle haunted him for the rest of his life, of course he wouldn't use his personalised variant of Dun Moch mixed with Soresu to make Vader even angrier, he was attempting the entire time to calm down his fallen pupil and bring him back to the Light Side of the Force.

But the Clone Wars and many other sources clearly show him trying to taunt and demoralise his opponents, as benefits his lightsaber form, Soresu is all about a strong defence, waiting for your opponent to tire and get frustrated, taunting an opponent into making stupid moves goes hand-in-hand with how he fights.

Going further with this, Kenobi's taunts would only serve to send Kun into a rage, such a rage would only have one outcome a powerful Force Blast that targets an entire area, Kenobi isn't dodging an attack with that kind of area of effect.

Also I'd like to know how you think Kenobi can actually beat Kun, Kun's natural Force Barriers are demonstrably far superior to Obi-Wan Kenobi's, Kun has taken Force Pushes at point blank range from Ulic Qel-Droma and barely moved, the only two beings that ever managed to break his Barriers were Odan Urr and the spirit of Freedon Nadd, the first he recovered from instantly and then killed him by using Force Wound and the second is an essence which have shown the ability to completely bypass any defences a Force User has.

Kenobi however has been repeatedly rag-dolled by the likes of Ventress, Dooku, Maul and others, all of whom Kun is more powerful than, factor in Kun's ability to bypass the Force Barriers of even powerful Jedi Masters and Kenobi is in trouble.
I am the Battlemaster of the Jedi Order. I've struck you down once already. Today, I'm finishing the job.
Jedi Order

UndyingHadyn's Avatar


UndyingHadyn
11.11.2013 , 07:44 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
Your first point has missed mine completely, it has nothing to do with how someone uses the Force, the simple fact of the matter is that Keto using her natural affinity for Sorcery to defend herself still got knocked out cold by a minor level Force Blast, Kenobi has no such defence against Kun's blasts and would be seriously injured and/or knocked out by the full-brunt of it's impact.

And once again, Kun has not once allowed his ego to blind him to the reality of the situation nor make him under-estimate his opponents, he respects all worthy opponents and seeks to bring then down hard with no pulling back.

There is a massive difference between fighting any other Sith or Dark Jedi and his own pupil turned Sith Lord Darth Vader, that battle haunted him for the rest of his life, of course he wouldn't use his personalised variant of Dun Moch mixed with Soresu to make Vader even angrier, he was attempting the entire time to calm down his fallen pupil and bring him back to the Light Side of the Force.
But the Clone Wars and many other sources clearly show him trying to taunt and demoralise his opponents, as benefits his lightsaber form, Soresu is all about a strong defence, waiting for your opponent to tire and get frustrated, taunting an opponent into making stupid moves goes hand-in-hand with how he fights.
Once again... I didn't miss anything about your post. It has everything to do with how they use the force! The fact that a sith witch decided to slug it out with Kun, and lost, has nothing to do with how I approached the fight between Kun and Obi-wan. She tried to dispell the force blasts... she failed... Kun's force blasts are powerful. I get it.

There... ^ even more ways how you've illustrated that Obi-wan would win. The fact that Kun was an unpredictable skirmisher...leading up to a powershot... kind of fighter, suggests that Obi-wan is the perfect nemesis for Kun.
Obi being a supreme master of soresu, would be able to, as Aurbere said, weather all of Kun's unstoppable attacks. By your sentiment, having the ability to take all the action Kun could unleash...plus taunt Kun... this would definitely provoke Kun to irrationality. Kun would fall right into Obi-wan's trap by dropping his guard for a millisecond to channel, and Obi-wan would then seal Kun's fate.

The fight against Annikin was different than any other, you're right. But the fact remains, that he was able to survive against a more powerful opponent. Once again... Obi-wan is a Jedi. His ability to detect Kun's force energy, and the wisdom to acknowledge said power is the reason he wins this fight.

UndyingHadyn's Avatar


UndyingHadyn
11.11.2013 , 08:32 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post




Going further with this, Kenobi's taunts would only serve to send Kun into a rage, such a rage would only have one outcome a powerful Force Blast that targets an entire area, Kenobi isn't dodging an attack with that kind of area of effect.

Also I'd like to know how you think Kenobi can actually beat Kun, Kun's natural Force Barriers are demonstrably far superior to Obi-Wan Kenobi's, Kun has taken Force Pushes at point blank range from Ulic Qel-Droma and barely moved, the only two beings that ever managed to break his Barriers were Odan Urr and the spirit of Freedon Nadd, the first he recovered from instantly and then killed him by using Force Wound and the second is an essence which have shown the ability to completely bypass any defences a Force User has.

Kenobi however has been repeatedly rag-dolled by the likes of Ventress, Dooku, Maul and others, all of whom Kun is more powerful than, factor in Kun's ability to bypass the Force Barriers of even powerful Jedi Masters and Kenobi is in trouble.
As Kenobi would undoubtedly say....

"I don't think so".

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.11.2013 , 10:03 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by UndyingHadyn View Post
Read any book on the nature of the force, and especially one that details how powerful Obi-wan actually was. This is pleasant fiction, and an enjoyable discussion, but...

Kun wakes up in jail, amigo... Obi-wan wins this fight.
I've read many a Star Wars book. I own nearly every book detailing how the Force 'works,' and I have read everything there is to read about Obi-Wan Kenobi (aside from the new book, haven't been able to get at it yet). Trust me, you have yet to tell me something I don't actually know.

But back to the discussion at hand.

I have not been 'tunneling' your past your battle description (not the important parts at least). You asserted that Kenobi could diffuse a Force Blast. The fact is: he can't. Kenobi has no knowledge of Sith Sorcery, which means he can't defend against it. Of course you can argue that he would dodge the attack, fine. But if/when a blast hits Kenobi is screwed.

This isn't even taking into account the other abilities Kun has at his disposal, and the fact that Kenobi has had his Force Barriers breached by nearly every Force user that he has encountered.

You know, I thought this line:


Quote: Originally Posted by UndyingHadyn View Post
I'd ask the color-brigade to perform a detailed analysis of the battle between Exar-Kun and OBI-WAN KENOBI.
was complimentary, but you seem pretty confrontational about this. So the question is: why is that?
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

UndyingHadyn's Avatar


UndyingHadyn
11.11.2013 , 10:51 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post



You asserted that Kenobi could diffuse a Force Blast. The fact is: he can't.


You said,

A duel such as this would probably go down like the Mustafar duel. Exar Kun would blitz Obi-Wan with a brute force offense and Kenobi would weather the attacks. I think that Exar Kun would have to pull every trick he has to get the better of Obi-Wan, but that may not be enough. What then results is an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object... until Exar Kun pulls out his Force abilities, then Kenobi is screwed.

A good match, but Exar Kun would win.



This is what I wrote.


A novice understudy would generally perceive that size doesn't matter -- big guy always wins. Point is "the big guy" kun, would as you say resort to "big" force attacks. Now the common misconception here is that highly powerful Jedi are extremely tuned into the force. In essence, they *are* their environment, every stick, every stone, every spec of dust in the air.....everything.

Now kun would draw on the force to generate this "big" blast of his that everyone accepts as a "kun wins button". Now Obi-wan would be able to sence the huge collection of darkside energy beginning to pool from kun. Obi would also be wise enough to accept that he is unprepared to match such an attack head on.

So what we would see here, is on one side Kun is beginning to channel a force blast, and on the other side, Obi-wan is searching with lightning fast force perception, as to what he shall use to interrupt Kun. He is already aware of absolutely every single molecule in the room....so with his sence of humor, he out-wits Kun.....with a rock.

Obi sends the rock from behind kun with just enough force to not impale kun's skull. Kun does not loose consciousness, however it is too late. Obi-wan uses a force push, which sends Kun shattering into a wall. This attack does incapacitate Kun.

Next thing that occurs in kun's world, is him opening his eyes in a special chamber of the Republic Prison. Kun is nothing more than a relic of just another failed Jedi that thought he could rule the galaxy.



Hmm.



I never stated that Obi-wan could diffuse the blast. It's the very essence of darkside energy in it's purest form. A form that could undoubtedly be recognized by a master lightside practitioner. I said that Obi-wan interrupted Kun's blast before it began.

It's true. Obi-wan has displayed inferior force barrier capabilities. He has also displayed incredibly well timed feats that bordered on impossible. He utilizes his wisdom, his experience, and his faith in the force to overcome superior adversaries. Granted, luck may often win a battle for any man...If his courage holds. That is why I say that Obi-wan firstly, would have the ability to recognize the raw power that Kun could channel, and secondly would possess the wherewithal within the force to find another way to overcome the encounter.






I'm not confrontational, I'm just trying to draw from you, your best.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.12.2013 , 09:57 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by UndyingHadyn View Post
[I never stated that Obi-wan could diffuse the blast.
Yes you did:

Quote: Originally Posted by UndyingHadyn View Post
Even easier then for Obi-wan to diffuse.
*Insert cliché "ah ha!" quote here*

Quote:
I'm not confrontational, I'm just trying to draw from you, your best.
Then let the games begin...
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
11.12.2013 , 10:36 PM | #28
I love how he didn't even explain how he believes Obi-wan could successfully pull off a Force attack against Kun, when Kun has exceptionally powerful Force Barriers.
I am the Battlemaster of the Jedi Order. I've struck you down once already. Today, I'm finishing the job.
Jedi Order

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.12.2013 , 10:56 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
I love how he didn't even explain how he believes Obi-wan could successfully pull off a Force attack against Kun, when Kun has exceptionally powerful Force Barriers.
And even if Kenobi manages a successful Force attack, Kun would most likely recover from it fairly quickly.

I'm sure an argument can be made for Kenobi being able to successfully pull off a Force attack.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

UndyingHadyn's Avatar


UndyingHadyn
11.13.2013 , 12:12 AM | #30
Alright alright, I used the wrong word in response to the lady's lesser force fart arguments, don't get too cheeky lol. However it is clear in my original picture of the fight, that I said Obi-wan's enhanced perception would enable him the chance to interrupt Kun's force attack. This May or may not actually occur, but in the event that Obi-wan didn't defeat Kun during the sabre duel (which is possible he could)... interrupting kun's force blast is the only chance he has, and he would know it.

Coincidently, it is known that kun was actually quite susceptible to physical injury and wasn't able to "diffuse" them as efficiently as force attacks. This is a fortunate circumstance for Obi-wan, for his ability to interrupt kun with physical energy first, would actually catch kun by surprise. These factors were included in my original account of how their fight might occur.