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POSSIBLE SPOILERS Who really has the most authority/power?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
POSSIBLE SPOILERS Who really has the most authority/power?

DAWUSS's Avatar


DAWUSS
11.14.2013 , 11:33 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by Ottoattack View Post
Nox/Imperious has a huge power base. Beside inheriting the power base of the DC you kill in the end of the story (I forgot his name), many of the DC members fall, and considering that Nox/Imperious is one of the more powerful DC members, surely secured a large portion of that.
If I may ask, who and what happens to be within Darth Imperius's power base? A cult on Nar Shaddaa? Anyone in the Imperial Reclamation Service? A couple of Admirals? I'm a fan of Darth Imperius, but I'm having a hard time seeing just how powerful she is in comparison to other DC members, like, say, Darth Marr.

Quote: Originally Posted by Girdeux View Post
There is actually a few DC members that are considered to be almost worthless in terms of power. Nox is actually on the bottom with them.

The only thing that gave Nox leverage over anyone else was the Silencer superweapon. Which now has been destroyed after the conclusion of Act 3 somewhere.
The Silencer gets destroyed? Must have missed that part...

But yeah, the Sphere of Ancient Knowledge doesn't sound like its anything that carries much martial power. It's like being the Secretary of Education instead of the Secretary of Defense.

However, being the head of the Sphere of Ancient Knowledge does have its advantages.

Girdeux's Avatar


Girdeux
11.15.2013 , 12:50 AM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by DAWUSS View Post
I

The Silencer gets destroyed? Must have missed that part...

But yeah, the Sphere of Ancient Knowledge doesn't sound like its anything that carries much martial power. It's like being the Secretary of Education instead of the Secretary of Defense.

However, being the head of the Sphere of Ancient Knowledge does have its advantages.
In the Annihilation novel its said the Empire has one last superweapon left the ascendant spear which also gets destroyed. The novel also gives a insight into the power structure within the dark council. Darth Marr says it himself when there is really only 5-6 dark council members that have total authority and power which makes the overall decisions for the Empire. Nox isnt within the group.

AlexDougherty's Avatar


AlexDougherty
11.15.2013 , 09:14 AM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by DAWUSS View Post
But yeah, the Sphere of Ancient Knowledge doesn't sound like its anything that carries much martial power. It's like being the Secretary of Education instead of the Secretary of Defense.

However, being the head of the Sphere of Ancient Knowledge does have its advantages.
Yes, but my Nox curried favour with the military, he earned their trust, more so than most council members, who treat the miltary like something to be disposed of (like a dirty hanky)

Also the Sphere of Ancient Knowledge has records of virtually every ritual in existance, as well as records of military tactics and secret weapons, not to be sneered at.

He also has an alliance with a group in Hutt Space that produced the tech needed to build the silencer, and he built more than one Silencer.

Now I'm sure not all of this is canon, but I don't care, it's how I played the Character, and until I hear otherwise in game I'm assuming they still hold.
Peace can be found, above all passions. Through passion, I may gain strength.
Through strength, I may gain power. Through power, I may gain victory.
But for every enemy fallen, a new foe rises.
For every chain broken, new chains bind me. Only the Force can set me free.

DAWUSS's Avatar


DAWUSS
11.15.2013 , 09:24 AM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Girdeux View Post
In the Annihilation novel its said the Empire has one last superweapon left the ascendant spear which also gets destroyed. The novel also gives a insight into the power structure within the dark council. Darth Marr says it himself when there is really only 5-6 dark council members that have total authority and power which makes the overall decisions for the Empire. Nox isnt within the group.
I didn't read Annihilation (yet?), so that explains that.

Also, the fact that Darth Marr can boss around a fellow Dark Council member speaks volumes to how much power that fellow Dark Council member has. "Hey, go to Makeb and get me some isotope-5. Thanks."

Ottoattack's Avatar


Ottoattack
11.15.2013 , 11:35 AM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by DAWUSS View Post
If I may ask, who and what happens to be within Darth Imperius's power base? A cult on Nar Shaddaa? Anyone in the Imperial Reclamation Service? A couple of Admirals? I'm a fan of Darth Imperius, but I'm having a hard time seeing just how powerful she is in comparison to other DC members, like, say, Darth Marr.


The Silencer gets destroyed? Must have missed that part...

But yeah, the Sphere of Ancient Knowledge doesn't sound like its anything that carries much martial power. It's like being the Secretary of Education instead of the Secretary of Defense.

However, being the head of the Sphere of Ancient Knowledge does have its advantages.
I would say that Marr is probably them most powerful authority figure in SWTOR figure after the fall of the emperor (which was hinted in the last cut scene in Makeb. I would not be surprised if he becomes the next emperor). For the inquisitor power base, for all three crisis (Malgus, Makeb and Oricon/DG) was called on to resolve the crisis among IA, BH and SW (the assumption is that all 4 are present in every crisis), while the other DC members were not. It is kind of in between the lines, but surely Imperious/Nox is not an average DC member.

Darth_Wicked's Avatar


Darth_Wicked
11.15.2013 , 12:50 PM | #56
For the record, the Silencer wasn't destroyed, unless someone on this topic is privy to information NOT released to the rest of us yet.

EDIT:

Maybe people are mixing it up with the Gauntlet?
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Girdeux's Avatar


Girdeux
11.15.2013 , 04:04 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by DAWUSS View Post
I didn't read Annihilation (yet?), so that explains that.

Also, the fact that Darth Marr can boss around a fellow Dark Council member speaks volumes to how much power that fellow Dark Council member has. "Hey, go to Makeb and get me some isotope-5. Thanks."
I found it pretty funny that Nox is pretty much the lapdog of the dark council. Darth Marr is considered the head of the dark council although he cant boss around the other members of the "true" dark council. In the novel its said he can be overruled and overpowered by the other council members. The actual dark council members who have total power and authority are:

Darth Marr
Darth Ravage
Darth Rictus
Darth Mortis
Darth Vowrawn

Nobody else matters apparently as they can rule over the entire empire as stated in the annihilation novel.

Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Wicked View Post
For the record, the Silencer wasn't destroyed, unless someone on this topic is privy to information NOT released to the rest of us yet.

EDIT:

Maybe people are mixing it up with the Gauntlet?
No, Read the annihilation novel. it makes it quite clear. Its been quite a long time since we knew what happened to the silencer.

It allows Bioware to side-step the issue now that class story is finished and most likely never to be continued.

Hell_Kaiser_Fett's Avatar


Hell_Kaiser_Fett
11.16.2013 , 11:03 AM | #58
If anyone has read Darth Marr's back story, it's no doubt why he is the most powerful member of the Dark Council.
"You are now an official member of the Fett Lineage." - Temuera Morrison at ConNooga March 2, 2013

Stinghen's Avatar


Stinghen
11.16.2013 , 11:57 AM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by Xakthul View Post
Tremel, Rathari, and Venegan all have pretty good powerbases. You spare them, and Rathari and Tremel pledge fealty to you, and Venegan owes you a lot for saving his a*s.
Not Tremel, really. He's an Overseer in the Academy, but just look at how much authority a guy like Harkun has. He promises to have his allies hunt him down wherever Zash's apprentice goes... And the next time they meet Harkun is dilligently picking a new apprentice for him, and swearing allegiance to the head of the Pyramid of Ancient Knowledge (if you choose to spare him).

I do agree Rathari and Vengean would be another matter, though.

Quote: Originally Posted by jovianus View Post
Neither. The Warrior is essentially the Emperor's personal attack dog, but he doesn't move unless the Emperor (or the Hand) pull on the leash. The Warrior has no real power base of his own, and the Dark Council is quite free to tell him exactly where he can stuff his lightsabers if he tries to do anything without explicit orders from the Hand or the Emperor.

And Baras' fate serves as a convenient warning about what happens if you try to falsely invoke the Emperor's name for your personal ambitions.
Don't downplay the Wrath, my friend. The Wrath can choose to have a pretty heavy pull. If the Emperor so much as fancies his Dark Councillors are having funny ideas, do you think he would hesitate for one second to unleash his "attack dog" on them? Do you think the Wrath couldn't come on top if he faced any of the council members one-on-one? Do you think the other Imperials do not know the Dark Council does not speak for the Emperor? The truly loyal ones (and there are plenty of those) would side with the Wrath if the need arose. The Wrath could stand at the head of the Imperial Guard to take down the council, if need be. The very fact the Wrath's existance curbs the greed and power plays of the DC speaks volumes of his authority.

You place a restraint on his authority by assuming he cannot really wield it, if he does it to his own favour and not the Emperor's. But if he acts in the Emperor's name, I am sure he'd be like Darth Vader, tramping over the nuts of all those moffs and admirals in the hunt for the Rebels in Episode V.

Quote: Originally Posted by Girdeux View Post
I found it pretty funny that Nox is pretty much the lapdog of the dark council. Darth Marr is considered the head of the dark council although he cant boss around the other members of the "true" dark council. In the novel its said he can be overruled and overpowered by the other council members. The actual dark council members who have total power and authority are:

Darth Marr
Darth Ravage
Darth Rictus
Darth Mortis
Darth Vowrawn

Nobody else matters apparently as they can rule over the entire empire as stated in the annihilation novel.
Do you know why Darth Nox isn't mentioned in there? Because there is no canon version for him yet. But the Pyramid of Ancient Knowledge is one of the most powerful Spheres of Influence, because it pertains to all the knowledge legacy of the ancient Sith, as was mentioned, not limited to Force rituals, but also superweapons (like Naga Sadow's Corsair, capable of wrenching cores from stars). As Darth Achelon states, Thanaton had a few projects that might be worth looking into.

And while the Pyramid controls the Imperial Reclamation Service, they are a branch of the military, and Darth Nox has a few admirals and Moffs in his pocket.

Nox only seems downplayed because probably no out-of-game lore sources are allowed to use the in-game characters like the Wrath or Nox until there is a canon version for them.

Quote: Originally Posted by Girdeux View Post
No, Read the annihilation novel. it makes it quite clear. Its been quite a long time since we knew what happened to the silencer.

It allows Bioware to side-step the issue now that class story is finished and most likely never to be continued.
Enlighten me on what happened to it. Is it merely included in that generic statement? Sorry, it does not mean the Silencer goes without causing a lot of damage. It may be gone in the time of Annihilation, but so far in the game the Silencer's right there, strong and hale, and a handful more are on the way.

On a final note, comparing Nox to Marr is like comparing the Barsen'thor to Satele Shan. Of course neither would have the influence to topple (in the former's case) or be more influential than (in the latter's case) the most powerful beings in their respective Orders. Nox has only just arrived in the Dark Council, but he has an awesome deck stacked in his favour, one that is largely independant of Marr's influence. The point of the thread is not comparing the player class characters to the most powerful members of the Pub/Imp sides. The point is ranking them amongst themselves, in which case Nox roflstomps the others with ease. Both on personal power (he can bind all the ghosts to him permanently in the end and why the Hell would he choose to release them?) and on influence (as he has a handful of admirals and Moffs on his pocket, his fleet has the Silencer, and possibly more than one by the time of the events on Oricon.

Girdeux's Avatar


Girdeux
11.16.2013 , 12:30 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by Stinghen View Post
Do you know why Darth Nox isn't mentioned in there? Because there is no canon version for him yet. But the Pyramid of Ancient Knowledge is one of the most powerful Spheres of Influence, because it pertains to all the knowledge legacy of the ancient Sith, as was mentioned, not limited to Force rituals, but also superweapons (like Naga Sadow's Corsair, capable of wrenching cores from stars). As Darth Achelon states, Thanaton had a few projects that might be worth looking into.

And while the Pyramid controls the Imperial Reclamation Service, they are a branch of the military, and Darth Nox has a few admirals and Moffs in his pocket.

Nox only seems downplayed because probably no out-of-game lore sources are allowed to use the in-game characters like the Wrath or Nox until there is a canon version for them.



Enlighten me on what happened to it. Is it merely included in that generic statement? Sorry, it does not mean the Silencer goes without causing a lot of damage. It may be gone in the time of Annihilation, but so far in the game the Silencer's right there, strong and hale, and a handful more are on the way.
You can come up with any reason you like about why the Inquisitor isnt mentioned. Its specifically said that a "secret" meeting was held and only the most powerful members of the council were invited, the ones with REAL influence to make the decisions regarding the overall empire. In Darth Marrs words "the ones that matter". And Darth Marr controls 100% of all the military of the empire currently, as no other dark council members have been elevated to the other 2 positions.

The silencer wasnt mentioned at all during Makeb....And it wasnt a generic statement, read the novel.