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Bioware is sitting on a PvP-driven goldmine!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Bioware is sitting on a PvP-driven goldmine!

Lord_Ravenhurst's Avatar


Lord_Ravenhurst
10.26.2013 , 05:27 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by MajikMyst View Post
We
All of them.. 3 is simple you showing how uninformed you are.. 4 is just your opinion.. 1 & 2 are completely baseless and without any evidence to support the claims..

World of tank?? I am sure most people haven't even heard of it.. It is hardly a success.. Not something someone will see at their local game stop.. It is a freebie game you download off the net..

League of Legends.. Again.. Free to play.. So for evidence of your claim you give us two free to play games?? That is successful??

Dota2 has a good following.. But seriously.. I don't think it supports the claim you are making..

So like I said.. Let me know when you actually state a fact..
What the hell? who is uninformed here?
World of Tanks, 60 million accounts, growing every day
DOTA 2 and LoL most played games, around 25+ million accounts

WoW and SWTOR can dream about numbers like this

http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/07/wo...istered-users/

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013...game-on-steam/

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/04/10/do...claims-report/

so much for "completely baseless"

Tsillah's Avatar


Tsillah
10.26.2013 , 05:27 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_Ravenhurst View Post
Everyone who enjoys PvP in SWTOR let´s join together on this little "wall of crazy" thread.

Some facts beforehand:

Fact 1: PvP driven games are the most successful on today´s PC market (WoT, LoL and DOTA2)
Fact 2: Warzones in SWTOR are part of the most played content in SWTOR
Fact 3: Galactic Starfighter is purely PVP driven (probably also due to major problems with adding NPC AI)
Fact 4: PvP in SWTOR is actually pretty damn FUN
1) Those games are very popular f2p games that are just about one thing: pvp. They can't really be compared to MMOs. A lot of PvP driven MMOs actually don't do so well in the west and generally MMOs tend to have more PvE than PvP servers as a consequence.
2) I am not sure if this is a fact. My guess would be that people spend a lot more gours leveling and playing ops, hanging out on the fleet and such than playing warzones.
3) GS will be PvP only when it comes out. The future will show if it will stay that way or if also PvE style missions will come.
4) That's an opinion. You can't designate "fun" as factual, that is always a matter of opinion.

All in all I am looking forward to GS as a PvE player but I don't really get why people need to call their opinions facts. I think it will be a great addition to the game. What I don't know is if it will bring as many people to SWTOR as it doe to WoT for example. There is some PvP stuff happening now and that is good, but my guess is that after SG and the first season are on the focus probably will return to PvE again.
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Lord_Ravenhurst's Avatar


Lord_Ravenhurst
10.26.2013 , 05:29 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Palar View Post
I'm not seeing the immediate correlation between 'most played' and 'most successful'.
ah, sure, let´s put a new twist on this.
Before it was "but it´s the F2P market", now that SWTOR is F2P too, people don´t see " immediate correlation between 'most played' and 'most successful'"



can we please just admit the facts and have a discussion here how to drive SWTOR more towards successful new PvP concepts.

I admit 4) is opinion, although most people agree that Huttball is a masterpiece.
1)-3) ARE facts

Falcanaar's Avatar


Falcanaar
10.26.2013 , 05:36 AM | #24
I was kinda with you up until the point you said Huttball was a masterpiece, yea, now I'm done.

I've always wanted to see them escalate the war between the Republic and Empire to something meaningful that players took part in, but never going to happen, especially on an engine that can't handle it.

thecoffeecup's Avatar


thecoffeecup
10.26.2013 , 05:38 AM | #25
There are players like myself who genuinely have no interest whatsoever in PvP. We already have one PvP-only expansion coming up. It seems absurd to suggest that we need to force more PvP into the game. Like Korevas, I wonder if you have any evidence to back up your claim that it is indeed PvP that is the most viable way to drive SWTOR. It seems more like a personal agenda.

Oh and by the way, what is it with the absurd argument about it being too difficult to add AI into the space missions? Some of the most famous and well-made Star Wars games are X-Wing and TIE Fighter, both singleplayer space sims. But I guess that kind of thing is just not possible in 2013. It's too advanced! Not that I see the point in the space project at all. I'd rather they developed the core game further rather than adding a minigame.

JPryde's Avatar


JPryde
10.26.2013 , 05:40 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_Ravenhurst View Post
Fact 1: PvP driven games are the most successful on today´s PC market (WoT, LoL and DOTA2)
While true, none of those games qualifies as a MMORPG, since none of them got anything even close to a persistent world.
Quote:
Fact 2: Warzones in SWTOR are part of the most played content in SWTOR
On this "fact" I would like to see a source. From what I see on /who lists, people at lvl 55 are spending a lot more time in operations than in warzones... but that could be, cause the PvP-crowd and the PvE-crowd are not mixing much. Still I challenge that fact without seeing any hard data for it.
Quote:
2. PvP puzzle raids
Expand the warzone concept and create "scenarios". Two teams, 12 vs 12 on a station, on a struggle against time repairing or sabotaging systems, solve random puzzles and minigames and also throw NPCs into the mix
Something like this was done in AION... two teams were attacking a spaceship and there were different ways to win the map... both PvP and PvE... the result was, that many times the teams were both rushing through the mobs in order to kill the ships captain first, winning the PvP map sometimes without even seeing the other team. In my opinion, mobs do not have any place in a PvP fight.

Quote:
7. The PvP fleet invasion (Could be a daily or weekly mission)
Offer 24 player restriced versions of both fleets
Infiltrate the other faction fleet and eradicate the invasion
Brought up before and will likely be brought up again and again... But no, I see absolutely nothing positive in allowing a bunch of fully prepared 55er killers to invade the opposing fleet to wreak havoc and kill chars from lvl 10 to 55.
It could work as a warzone, where the attack does not harm the normal life on the fleet, but even players, who like to occasionally PvP do surely not want to be forced to PvP when they are just browsing the market, craft stuff or are AFK. The fleet is safe and it should stay safe.
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Lord_Ravenhurst's Avatar


Lord_Ravenhurst
10.26.2013 , 05:56 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by JPryde View Post
On this "fact" I would like to see a source..
Okay, had to look a bit from where I remembered an article, but here some more evidence for the truth of Fact 2, directly from Bioware:

http://www.vg247.com/2012/05/02/biow...-game-content/

"BioWare switches SWTOR team around to create more PvP, end game content"

"SWTOR lead designer Daniel Erickson has said the team at BioWare has realized how large the PvP community is, so it has “turned a huge amount of resources” towards creating more content"


Erickson said the team learned “two big lessons coming out of not just launch but beta testing,” when it came to development direction, one of which was not to underestimate the popularity of PvP among MMO players.

“Although we had not originally planned the game to be heavily PVP-focused, the ease of getting in and playing the Warzones combined with their fun design gave us the highest PvP participation of any modern triple-A MMO,” he said.

“At that point we turned a huge amount of our resources to PVP development, but we’re still playing a bit of catch-up, and that is understandably frustrating to our most advanced PVP users."

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
10.26.2013 , 06:03 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_Ravenhurst View Post
because it´s more about the general approach if you let players rather beat up

A) scripted AI mobs
or
B) each other in a non scripted, non predictable ways and different scenarios


B) is definitely the more interesting concept
PvP people never play Adventure games, that's for sure.

"Story ? Who cares ?" seems what they say.

For them - good.
But - both developers & publishers usually follow the trail of money - so, in the end, MMO will consist of nothing but PvP stuff ...
Good for the PvP folks, for the rest ... meh.

And SWTOR becoming almost solely an PvP-driven game - I'll quit.
Good for the PvP folks, bad for me (and probably for Bioware as well).



Aside from all of this : I hold a theory that PvP players are more aggressive players in general, which results in geing uch more vocal than everyone else ... Especially PvE players. Simply because PvP players are more "agressively vocal", imho. I see it every day when I look into the PvP forums ...

Wolves driving the Sheep out of "their" game ...
I'm a bad player.
I have no good reputation.
I never will.
Only bad reputation.

thecoffeecup's Avatar


thecoffeecup
10.26.2013 , 06:14 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_Ravenhurst View Post
Okay, had to look a bit from where I remembered an article, but here some more evidence for the truth of Fact 2, directly from Bioware:
It's an interesting quote, to which I have two responses:

1. It still doesn't show that PvP is the driving force of this game. It tells you that they underestimated people's interest in PvP. Maybe you are right. I honestly wish I knew. This doesn't seem to tell us though.

2. I wish they could just decide whether they want to focus on PvE or PvP and be done with it. When I started playing SWTOR, it was kind of obvious that its main focus was PvE. Now I'm not so sure. If they come out and say they are more interested in PvP, I'll be moving on to other games right away. I would feel betrayed since this started out as a PvE driven game, but I just want to know. But I'm betting they desperately want to hang on to both their PvP and their PvE players. The issue is that they may end up disappointing everyone rather than getting at least one thing right.

While your ideas for PvP aren't actually bad, they belong in a PvP based game. I think suddenly changing SWTOR to be PvP based would be a very dishonest move.

OddballEasyEight's Avatar


OddballEasyEight
10.26.2013 , 06:31 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_Ravenhurst View Post
What the hell? who is uninformed here?
World of Tanks, 60 million accounts, growing every day
DOTA 2 and LoL most played games, around 25+ million accounts

WoW and SWTOR can dream about numbers like this

http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/07/wo...istered-users/

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013...game-on-steam/

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/04/10/do...claims-report/

so much for "completely baseless"
Thats nice and all, but those games are not the same thing as PvP in SWTOR.
It would be like comparing Call of Duty to the PvP in SWTOR...
Competetive versus multiplayer does not equate to MMO PvP.
APB is a completely PvP based game. But you would hardly compare that to the PvP in SWTOR now would you?

Face it, MMORPG PvP is not the same thing as DotA and LoL.
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