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SWTOR Holiday Update

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

mmjarec's Avatar


mmjarec
10.24.2013 , 11:25 PM | #81
Stop calling it an expansion you are not expanding any existing content you are putting in a whole new game type instead of giving people real content that they paid for

idnewton's Avatar


idnewton
10.25.2013 , 12:16 AM | #82
Quote: Originally Posted by mmjarec View Post
Stop calling it an expansion you are not expanding any existing content you are putting in a whole new game type instead of giving people real content that they paid for
Someone is taking the 'pay nothing' idea entirely too seriously. If you pay nothing... it means you aren't paying...

No idea why that has to be spelled out...
PRE-ORDER ACCOUNT LEGACY LEVEL 50 LEVEL 55s: 15 10/10 HM DREAD OPS
ETERNAL WARRIOR CONQUEROR OF THE DREAD FORTRESS
30/30 Dread Fortress PVP BEST IN SLOT 4/5 NiM DP

JediMasterSLC's Avatar


JediMasterSLC
10.25.2013 , 07:14 AM | #83
Quote: Originally Posted by Nexilein View Post
Great.
So the inactive lvl37 character that received my name during the transfers (and has not gained one level during the last 15 month) won't lose its name...
Right? I wonder how many inactive level 50s there are .......
55s: POT5- Kakarrotx-Sent, Paraguss-Sorc, Brawlly-Jug, Meleehealer-Mara
Bastion- Greenn-Mando, Radishz-Scoundrel, Trunkks-Shadow, Burdok-Sniper, Lettucce-PT

Malastare's Avatar


Malastare
10.25.2013 , 11:59 AM | #84
Quote: Originally Posted by mmjarec View Post
Stop calling it an expansion you are not expanding any existing content you are putting in a whole new game type instead of giving people real content that they paid for
1: They can call it what they want.

2: It's an expansion because it expands the game mechanics, adding a new activity type. That is pretty classic for expansions.

3: The Czerka planet and Oricon are both expansions of existing content. You didn't call either of those expansions.

Conclusion: Your opinions are inconsistent and (thankfully) do not define reality.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
10.25.2013 , 12:03 PM | #85
Quote: Originally Posted by mmjarec View Post
Stop calling it an expansion you are not expanding any existing content you are putting in a whole new game type instead of giving people real content that they paid for
They call it an expansion. They ARE expanding the space game to include PvP.
All warfare is based on deception. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected. If his forces are united, separate them. If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near. A leader leads by example not by force.

idnewton's Avatar


idnewton
10.25.2013 , 12:21 PM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by Malastare View Post
1: They can call it what they want.

2: It's an expansion because it expands the game mechanics, adding a new activity type. That is pretty classic for expansions.

3: The Czerka planet and Oricon are both expansions of existing content. You didn't call either of those expansions.

Conclusion: Your opinions are inconsistent and (thankfully) do not define reality.
Actually, by your logic, Bioware is inconsistent, making you inconsistent, and him consistent. Not that I agree with him, but your logic is beyond faulty.
PRE-ORDER ACCOUNT LEGACY LEVEL 50 LEVEL 55s: 15 10/10 HM DREAD OPS
ETERNAL WARRIOR CONQUEROR OF THE DREAD FORTRESS
30/30 Dread Fortress PVP BEST IN SLOT 4/5 NiM DP

Malastare's Avatar


Malastare
10.25.2013 , 01:11 PM | #87
Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
Actually, by your logic, Bioware is inconsistent, making you inconsistent, and him consistent. Not that I agree with him, but your logic is beyond faulty.
Not to tread too far down the road of arguing formal logic, but: No. You've made false equivalence assumptions. Since you haven't actually explained yourself, I'll assume one of these explains your objection:

1: Bioware is allowed to set names for its releases. There is no requirement that these follow the perceptions of users. There is no requirement that they follow a perceptible pattern. There is no requirement that two releases which have similar content must be named the same way. This is actually consistent, as it is a result of the fact that they are allowed to set names for their releases.

2: Following from Point 1: A release that includes features commonly found in expansions can be easily justified to be an expansion. The same holds for the contrapositive: Releases which aren't called expansions can have features commonly found in expansions (ie: Just because you include a expansion-like feature doesn't mean you must be called an expansion). The absolutes in both cases are demonstrably false on their faces: An expansion must have only expansion-worthy features and Non-expansion-worthy features must be the only features in non-expansion releases.

...And I think we've gone far enough to prove the point. Back to discussing why the Holiday Update doesn't have any holiday content (a continuation of the "Why doesn't the Summer of SWTOR have any game changes involving summer?" discussion).

idnewton's Avatar


idnewton
10.25.2013 , 01:41 PM | #88
Quote: Originally Posted by Malastare View Post
Not to tread too far down the road of arguing formal logic, but: No. You've made false equivalence assumptions. Since you haven't actually explained yourself, I'll assume one of these explains your objection:

1: Bioware is allowed to set names for its releases. There is no requirement that these follow the perceptions of users. There is no requirement that they follow a perceptible pattern. There is no requirement that two releases which have similar content must be named the same way. This is actually consistent, as it is a result of the fact that they are allowed to set names for their releases.

2: Following from Point 1: A release that includes features commonly found in expansions can be easily justified to be an expansion. The same holds for the contrapositive: Releases which aren't called expansions can have features commonly found in expansions (ie: Just because you include a expansion-like feature doesn't mean you must be called an expansion). The absolutes in both cases are demonstrably false on their faces: An expansion must have only expansion-worthy features and Non-expansion-worthy features must be the only features in non-expansion releases.

...And I think we've gone far enough to prove the point. Back to discussing why the Holiday Update doesn't have any holiday content (a continuation of the "Why doesn't the Summer of SWTOR have any game changes involving summer?" discussion).
You hide your ignorance behind lines and lines of text containing all the right words but no real meaning whatsoever. My point, had you actually chosen to read it instead of skim it, was that your "conclusion" was entirely false.

You claimed that Galactic Starfighter was an expansion (which it is, because Bioware called it one). You also, however, claim that CZ-198 and Oricon are expansions which, while technically they do expand the content, were never designated as such.

You then say that his opinions are inconsistent... which really isn't relevant to anything else you've just said. He disagreed with GS being an expansion, which is a fairly valid point to make. After all, it does not add a new tier of gear, it does not add a new planet, it does not raise the level cap, and it does not even raise the Game Version to 3.0.

That said, to the best of my knowledge, he has never described CZ-198 and Oricon as expansions. Thus, he is consistent in his belief that neither of them were expansions. The fact that you don't like his consistency is not his problem, and it's not my problem. It's your problem. E pluribus unum...
PRE-ORDER ACCOUNT LEGACY LEVEL 50 LEVEL 55s: 15 10/10 HM DREAD OPS
ETERNAL WARRIOR CONQUEROR OF THE DREAD FORTRESS
30/30 Dread Fortress PVP BEST IN SLOT 4/5 NiM DP

Malastare's Avatar


Malastare
10.28.2013 , 08:02 AM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
You claimed that Galactic Starfighter was an expansion (which it is, because Bioware called it one). You also, however, claim that CZ-198 and Oricon are expansions which, while technically they do expand the content, were never designated as such.
You misread my text. I was pointing out that mmjarec defined an expansion as anything that added to existing content, but refused to call Oricon or CZ-198 expansions. Thus, mmjarec's idea of what an expansion is excludes both releases that fail to add to existing content, and releases that only add to existing content. The "you" in point 3 is mmjarec. I never called Oricon or CZ-198 expansions, I just said they expanded existing content to point out mmjarec's hypocrisy.

You and I seem to disagree about how much we agree. From my point of view, we agree.

DOHboy's Avatar


DOHboy
10.28.2013 , 11:42 AM | #90
Quote: Originally Posted by mmjarec View Post
Stop calling it an expansion you are not expanding any existing content you are putting in a whole new game type instead of giving people real content that they paid for
They added Makeb and people complained since you had to pay for it and demanded new free content... So they add the NEW SSSP for FREE and people complain because suddenly it's not an "expansion" since it is new content and not updating old content with "new" (not sure what new content is to you since expanding existing content isn't an expansion and want only old content but new).