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Class Buffs rework


TheHarvester's Avatar


TheHarvester
10.02.2013 , 05:16 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by dbears View Post
It move TOWARDS the "bring the player, not the class" philosophy. People already prefer Marauders or Snipers because of their high damage output. So they're "bringing the class". With this new system, although Assassin DPS or Operative DPS is less, they would bring them for the buff if they were a decent player instead of taking a Sniper or Marauder that was bad.
People choose what class to play based on either how much fun they have with it, or how much ACTIVE utility they bring to a raid. Nobody is going to set up a raid team based on buffs. Before the legacy buff system, there were many times when my raid team was missing a Consular buff because we didn't have one on our team. Didn't stop us from doing the content anyway.

And really, its not anyone's concern how raid teams manage their comp. If a raid team wants to stack 4 Sents, 2 Juggs and 2 Sages, that's their prerogative. Trying to force variety by limiting buffs is nobody's call.
Jedi Covenant

dbears's Avatar


dbears
10.02.2013 , 05:48 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by TheHarvester View Post
People choose what class to play based on either how much fun they have with it, or how much ACTIVE utility they bring to a raid. Nobody is going to set up a raid team based on buffs. Before the legacy buff system, there were many times when my raid team was missing a Consular buff because we didn't have one on our team. Didn't stop us from doing the content anyway.

And really, its not anyone's concern how raid teams manage their comp. If a raid team wants to stack 4 Sents, 2 Juggs and 2 Sages, that's their prerogative. Trying to force variety by limiting buffs is nobody's call.
I agree that people play the classes they find fun. Very very few people would play a class they don't enjoy just to benefit their team.

However, the example team you gave with 4 sentinels, 2 juggs (I assume you mean guardians) and 2 sages is a good example of the lack of buffs that particular group would be getting. They'd be missing the 10% internal damage reduction, 5% alacrity, crit, endurance and surge. A team that changed out even a couple of those classes for different ones would likely do better.

If that team were to go in with 5% less crit and 5% less surge, the DPS and healers would have to tweak their gear to hit those caps, thus losing other stats. Tanks wouldn't have 5% more endurance which amounts to a lot of health with tanks having 40k+ now. The 10% internal/elemental damage reduction is huge too. Even the 5% alacrity, while most people still find it useless, would help with energy regeneration and cast times.

"Forcing" variety is not what this is about. It's about adding another dynamic to the game.

DarthSpekulatius's Avatar


DarthSpekulatius
10.02.2013 , 06:24 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by dbears View Post
If that team were to go in with 5% less crit and 5% less surge, the DPS and healers would have to tweak their gear to hit those caps,
you're wrong here accuracy is the only stat that you aim at the 100% value Crit is at most a resource control tool (for example in lethality) surge is flat DPS (and multiplied by crit%/100)

for the other stats it's similar internal DR for example would be exceptionally interesting but only 1. if the encounter uses said damage & 2nd because there's no other way to get it for most classes&specs.

then theres alacrity that'll change your Rotation depending upon having or not having it and some classes gain more out of it then others as well as the fact that 5% alacrity are something completely different from in example 5% surge
you can stack 25% surge with Gear and have 50% baseline but theres something like 2% alacrity baseline(in the tree) and you'll rarely break 10% from gear (never stacked full alacrity so I'm not sure but its somewhere around that) and what i did here is a prime example of comparing apples with mushrooms for these stats work completely different. (and oranges would at least have a similar form to apples thats why i used mushrooms)
don't use buffs to get the classes to mix, it's a bad approach, way harder then you seem to think and can be tricked by getting third party buffers outside of the Operation.
so you'd end up needing to balance a Buff system you put in place to balance class populations that is tricked with so little effort.

dbears's Avatar


dbears
10.02.2013 , 07:27 AM | #14
I'm aware the accuracy is the only stat you aim for 100% with. As I said earlier.. if they implemented this, that stats/percentages you have right now would be exactly the same IF you were totally buffed with this new system.

If you have 100% accuracy now, you'd have 95% unbuffed, 30% crit? You'd have 25%. 75% surge would be 70%, and so on. These percentages would only be affected by the stats on your gear. Skill Tree Passives would still have their full effect.

I don't think crit is a 'resource management' tool. Sort of maybe for healers since you wouldn't have to spam abilities as much, but there's no procs or healing abilities to my knowledge that benefit from critical hits.

Regarding your comment about third party buffers.. common. You mean to tell me you think people will stand outside an instance waiting for their guild mates to wipe so they can rebuff them? If your guild would do that, I commend the people waiting outside for their loyalty.

DarthSpekulatius's Avatar


DarthSpekulatius
10.08.2013 , 05:38 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by dbears View Post
I'm aware the accuracy is the only stat you aim for 100% with. As I said earlier.. if they implemented this, that stats/percentages you have right now would be exactly the same IF you were totally buffed with this new system.

If you have 100% accuracy now, you'd have 95% unbuffed, 30% crit? You'd have 25%. 75% surge would be 70%, and so on. These percentages would only be affected by the stats on your gear. Skill Tree Passives would still have their full effect.
5%≠5%

I don't think crit is a 'resource management' tool. Sort of maybe for healers since you wouldn't have to spam abilities as much, but there's no procs or healing abilities to my knowledge that benefit from critical hits.
http://www.torhead.com/ability/93flXK6/fighting-spirit

Regarding your comment about third party buffers.. common. You mean to tell me you think people will stand outside an instance waiting for their guild mates to wipe so they can rebuff them? If your guild would do that, I commend the people waiting outside for their loyalty.
having one sentinel wait outside to give the essential Accuracy Buff should be easily Organized for HM ops, that's why you're in a gild, if it isn't possible one of your healers could relog after each wipe since they don't need accuracy. a char is lv10 within a few minutes.
if you don't have any sentinel DDs in your Group that is.
and 100% accuracy are something different for say a Balance Shadow then they are for a Sharpshooter Slinger.
and it has again a different importance for a Dummy parsing Balance shadow then for an 16m ops one.
if you don't know why then inform yourself, you'll soon realize that it's a bad Idea.

Master-Nala's Avatar


Master-Nala
10.08.2013 , 09:07 AM | #16
I don't think it's a good idea to nerf everyone who earned the Legacy buffs, especially when it wouldn't increase class diversity anyway.
My 60s:Alana-Balance, Myschal-Ruffian, Vodoun-Vengeance, Alan-Medic, Ztephanie-Hatred, Curiosi-Marksman, Angiola-Concen., Chisami-Arsenal, Rickta-K. Combat, Mioni - Seer, Vesnas-Tactics, Psionicist-TK Sinbad-Sawbones, Arbaaz-Serenity, Nal'aa-Infil, Hard-top, Assault

dbears's Avatar


dbears
10.08.2013 , 09:11 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpekulatius View Post
a char is lv10 within a few minutes.
I would love a video of a character leveled from 1-10 in "minutes". Please, show me one.

Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpekulatius View Post
and 100% accuracy are something different for say a Balance Shadow then they are for a Sharpshooter Slinger. and it has again a different importance for a Dummy parsing Balance shadow then for an 16m ops one. if you don't know why then inform yourself, you'll soon realize that it's a bad Idea.
Yes, accuracy needs differ from class to class, but every class wants at least 100%. I personally role tank/healer, but when i do DPS, I make sure i have 100% melee/ranged and 110% force/tech accuracy. If I don't have that, the amount of attacks that are 'resisted', 'dodged', etc. are way to high. Also, 'inform myself'? I'm clearly uniformed by your standards, so please, inform me.

Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpekulatius View Post
having one sentinel wait outside to give the essential Accuracy Buff should be easily Organized for HM ops, that's why you're in a gild, if it isn't possible one of your healers could relog after each wipe since they don't need accuracy. if you don't have any sentinel DDs in your Group that is.
You're assuming that accuracy would be the only buff this hypothetical team would be missing. While I find it very, VERY unlikely a Guildmate would waste their evening standing outside an instance to rebuff your group when they die, there's no way you could get 2, 3, 4, or maybe even 5 people standing outside buffing you guys because you have no diversity in your group. Another point: having someone log over to an alt(s) to buff the group would be time consuming and have a lot of downtime associated with it. It also wouldn't work very well if they had to log over to 3, 4, or 5 toons so the rest of the group could get the buffs.

dbears's Avatar


dbears
10.08.2013 , 09:15 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Nala View Post
I don't think it's a good idea to nerf everyone who earned the Legacy buffs, especially when it wouldn't increase class diversity anyway.
Maybe they could come up with a system to keep the legacy buffs in the open world and in flashpoints, but have seperate non-legacy advanced class buffs for operations.

DarthSpekulatius's Avatar


DarthSpekulatius
10.08.2013 , 11:39 AM | #19
I've said all there is to say I'll repeat 5%≠5%

dbears's Avatar


dbears
10.08.2013 , 07:24 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpekulatius View Post
I've said all there is to say I'll repeat 5%≠5%
If you're not willing to share the wisdom you apparently have and choose to simply restate something that not only makes zero sense, but is also clearly mathematically incorrect (5% does indeed = 5%), I feel I can safely disregard your comments due to the narrow minded and immature nature of them.