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Class specializations and lore accuracy

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Class specializations and lore accuracy

Euphrosyne's Avatar


Euphrosyne
09.19.2013 , 10:03 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
Maul was definitely a Sith Warrior, and I think the Marauder should have gotten double-bladed lightsabers as a possibility in addition to two single ones.
I wouldn't say he was 'definitely a Sith Warrior'. Warriors employ medium/heavy armor, and Maul's robes are clearly just that: robes. (Contrast to Obi-Wan Kenobi's use of heavy armor in the Clone Wars TV shows.) Maul, for most of The Phantom Menace, is depicted as a shadowy antagonist who appears out of nowhere. He employs stealth and reconnaissance instead of simply jumping into a fight (viz. the probe droid scenes on Tatooine, and "let them make the first move"). Even his ship, the Scimitar, was described as a "Sith Infiltrator" and came equipped with an advanced cloaking device.

Those all add up to "Sith Assassin" to me, rather than to some sort of Warrior. And indeed, the Assassin class was designed pretty much with Maul in mind, according to dev comments.

As for the Marauder thing, that's a gameplay issue. Having multiple classes on the same side be able to use the exact same weapons isn't a good thing, because those weapons serve as easy, instant identifiers of what class they actually are. If you see somebody with a double-bladed lightsaber in a warzone, you immediately know that it's an Assassin/Shadow and can adjust your tactics accordingly. Allowing Marauders to use doublesabers too erodes that functionality and makes it slightly more difficult to tell classes apart: you don't fight a Smash monkey the same way you fight an assassassbite.
Euphrosynē (n., Greek) - "mirth, merriment"

psandak's Avatar


psandak
09.19.2013 , 10:49 AM | #12
long story short...lore and game mechanics do not always HAVE to jive. Here is what the developers wanted:

force using tank, melee dps, ranged dps, and healing
non-force using tank, melee dps, ranged dps, and healing

With all of these options, everyone playing the game could find something they enjoy playing.

Yes, many of the classes do resemble characters from the movies and the EU, but do not get overly hung up on stuff that does not quite fit.

Xilizhra's Avatar


Xilizhra
09.19.2013 , 01:02 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Euphrosyne View Post
I wouldn't say he was 'definitely a Sith Warrior'. Warriors employ medium/heavy armor, and Maul's robes are clearly just that: robes. (Contrast to Obi-Wan Kenobi's use of heavy armor in the Clone Wars TV shows.) Maul, for most of The Phantom Menace, is depicted as a shadowy antagonist who appears out of nowhere. He employs stealth and reconnaissance instead of simply jumping into a fight (viz. the probe droid scenes on Tatooine, and "let them make the first move"). Even his ship, the Scimitar, was described as a "Sith Infiltrator" and came equipped with an advanced cloaking device.

Those all add up to "Sith Assassin" to me, rather than to some sort of Warrior. And indeed, the Assassin class was designed pretty much with Maul in mind, according to dev comments.

As for the Marauder thing, that's a gameplay issue. Having multiple classes on the same side be able to use the exact same weapons isn't a good thing, because those weapons serve as easy, instant identifiers of what class they actually are. If you see somebody with a double-bladed lightsaber in a warzone, you immediately know that it's an Assassin/Shadow and can adjust your tactics accordingly. Allowing Marauders to use doublesabers too erodes that functionality and makes it slightly more difficult to tell classes apart: you don't fight a Smash monkey the same way you fight an assassassbite.
I haven't see the Clone Wars cartoon, but Obi-Wan and Anakin, both clear Jedi Knights, wore robes throughout the movies (and Obi-Wan definitely comes across as a Guardian, from his defensive lightsaber style). And IIRC, Asajj Ventress was a major inspiration for the Marauder (I will agree that Maul is definitely not a Juggernaut), and was reasonably lightly armored and with a fighting style based around agility.

I concede the point on the weapons thing, but from what I've seen of the Sith Inquisitor story, it really doesn't feel like Maul. Seeking artifacts, communing with ghosts, deep personal ambition and the frequent use of Force lightning are all traits that never struck me as Maul-like.

Lesaberisa's Avatar


Lesaberisa
09.19.2013 , 01:56 PM | #14
The class stories don't always mesh well with each advanced class - Act I of the Consular story is much more applicable to a Sage than a Shadow, for example.

The developers talk about Maul as an inspiration here.

Quote:
According to creative director James Ohlen, the inquisitor is inspired by Senator Palpatine and Darth Maul, and he claims the class is "lightly armoured, acrobatic, and uses lots of lightning abilities and telekinetics." While this combination of skills might sound strange, given that Palpatine and Maul are quite different in their fighting styles, each class has the ability to branch into two separate subclasses once you reach a certain level
Finest mediocre fanfic this side of the Outer Rim:Trooper / Inquisitor

Stinghen's Avatar


Stinghen
09.20.2013 , 12:49 PM | #15
The class concepts are 100% based on canon toons. The lists were provided, so I shan't repeat them here. But the actual characters that inspired the classes were not as restrictive in their abilities. So the in-game powers do not reflect the actual powers displayed by the characters that inspired the classes.

Dooku and Sidious are the best examples. Their ample use of lightning might entice people to call them Sorcerers, but look at their sabre skills, and compare them to the grand total of two lightsabre skills available to the Sorc. And don't you dare call them Sith Assassins, I shall Force Choke you to death Force choke is another example. Nobody doubts Vader's the iconic chokeman, but Dooku is seen employing it as well. And if Palpatine can use the Force to throw the enitre Senate on Yoda's head, why the hell can't he use it to crush a trachea? Here's another fun thing: neither Sith class has a 'throw-stuff-around' power, and yet Sid, Vad, and Tyr have all displayed great mastery at that, as has Obi-wan (iconic Jedi Guardian). I think I made my point, but I could continue :P

So, when I RP my bad-*** Sithies, both Juggs and Sorcs, you see Sorc sabre-masters and Juggs using lightning (like Malgus does). And woe to he who dares indoctrinate me to do otherwise

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
09.21.2013 , 03:46 PM | #16
Funny - ANY discussion is sooner or later turning into an Sith / Dark Side discussion - here as well ...

It's funny how fast everyone forgets about good side characters from both the movies & the Expanded Universe ... At one point, EVERYTHING's again about either Darth Maul, Darth Vader, Darth Tyranus, Darth Nihilus, Darth Bane, Darth Sidious or any other Sith.

Jedi ? Forgettable. They're just not cool enough. Not powerful enough.

Xilizhra's Avatar


Xilizhra
09.21.2013 , 04:06 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
Funny - ANY discussion is sooner or later turning into an Sith / Dark Side discussion - here as well ...

It's funny how fast everyone forgets about good side characters from both the movies & the Expanded Universe ... At one point, EVERYTHING's again about either Darth Maul, Darth Vader, Darth Tyranus, Darth Nihilus, Darth Bane, Darth Sidious or any other Sith.

Jedi ? Forgettable. They're just not cool enough. Not powerful enough.
There'd be more to talk about if they included eldritch forgotten Jedi sorcery, really. Which I'd absolutely love to hear about.

Aalin's Avatar


Aalin
09.21.2013 , 04:41 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
I concede the point on the weapons thing, but from what I've seen of the Sith Inquisitor story, it really doesn't feel like Maul. Seeking artifacts, communing with ghosts, deep personal ambition and the frequent use of Force lightning are all traits that never struck me as Maul-like.
Yet the emote that goes along with the sith inquisitor seethe is an obvious reference to Darth Maul, who paced from side to side and literally seethed as he awaitied a chance to fight Qui Gon Jinn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh4l39Lo194 (about 2:20 onwards).

I think from that example alone it is pretty clear that they took at least a heavy influence from Maul as a character for the inquisitor, more than likely for the specifics of the assassin specification alone though.

ToMyMa's Avatar


ToMyMa
09.22.2013 , 06:53 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by AlexDougherty View Post
Sith Sorceror is based on characters from comics
Sith Assassin is based on KOTOR and KOTOR2.

Sith Juggernaut is based on Darth Vader
Sith Marrauder is based on multiple sith, some of which even dual wielded

Bounty hunter Mercenary is based on several BH's including Jango Fett
Bounty Hunter Powertech is based on several BH's including Boba Fett

Imperial Agent Sniper is based on character in comics who was hunting Jedi, prefered to kill them from a distance.
Imperial Operative is based on several characters who fought in several ways (blaster, knife, bombs) with a stealth field added for flavour

Scoundrel is based on Han Solo, with healing added as a game mechanic
Gunslinger is based on several rogues many of whom (but not all) used two blasters

Commando is based on trooper medics (mostly clone trooper but sme stormtrooper too)
Vanguard is based on heavy blaster wielding Troopers (again mostly clone trooper)

Jedi Guardian is loosely based on the lightsaber wielding of the Jedi in the films
Jedi Sentinal is loosely based on the fights were Anakin wielded two sabers

Jedi Sage is based on the powers the jedi used
Jedi Shadow was created to balance the sith assassin

Should be noted that in the books jedi both used powers like the Sage and wielded lightsabers like the Guardian, and thanks to Luke's influence the new order also like to carry a single blaster in their offhand, to deal with people sneaking up on them.

Also while Sith warriors used less force powers than their sorceror kin, they still had more powers than in this game, Vader was keen on using telekinesis to pelt enemies with objects for example.
Well, Han was a gunslinger... If I remember correctly, he even said that he hated sneaking
Tanvir
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Zardac_the_Great's Avatar


Zardac_the_Great
09.22.2013 , 10:19 PM | #20
What it looks like to me is that they based the Sith off of the characters, then made republic clones and called them Jedi.