Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

[Theorycrafting] DPS Scalars Moving from Dummy to Boss

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
[Theorycrafting] DPS Scalars Moving from Dummy to Boss

THoK-Zeus's Avatar


THoK-Zeus
09.14.2013 , 05:21 AM | #41
@KBN: Did some more testing without the armor debuff with my mm sniper. I changed the 6 Shatter Shots with 3 Explosive Probes (always when Adrenaline Probe is up) and 3 Rifle Shot (when i just have TA or nothing) and it's totally possible to do that.

Mathematically, that would net me about 1050 (RS)+ 8500 (Explosive Probe) dps, assuming my almost full 72 gear with the sniper (not going to nim with him) and accordingly a 1,03% dps increase from not using shattershot (equals to 32 additional dps for me).

But when doing real parsing comparison i get more then 32 additional dps, mainly because i have a huge burst in the beginning (Before i was using OS - Am - FT -SS -(adrenals, cooldowns...)-Sos-....) as i now can use:
OS -Am -FT -(adrenals, cooldowns)-SoS-...
Dps after 50 seconds is then sometimes even similar to what i get usually with the armor debuff.

I wonder whether it's better to delay your first Shatter Shot, to get more out of the burst from the very beginning.

Edit: For execute phase i read you have said somewhere 50 additional dps (kbn could you please your calculations for this).
My calculation assume that rotation is not changing, takedown (with FT) is used on cooldown. This gives me 133 dps (assuming 3,2k dps) for execution phase and therefore about 40 dps overall.
This gives me a 1,25% dps increase here.

Altogether i get then a 2,29% dps increase for mm snipers.

Mathemagica's Avatar


Mathemagica
09.14.2013 , 07:57 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by THoK-Zeus View Post
My calculation assume that rotation is not changing, takedown (with FT) is used on cooldown.
Can you explain, what you mean by this? Do you add TD -> FT at a reasonable point in your rotation (which increases the length of your rotation by 3 seconds, assuming no alacrity/alacrity buff)?

THoK-Zeus's Avatar


THoK-Zeus
09.14.2013 , 09:53 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Mathemagica View Post
Can you explain, what you mean by this? Do you add TD -> FT at a reasonable point in your rotation (which increases the length of your rotation by 3 seconds, assuming no alacrity/alacrity buff)?
I am now thinking more closely about that problem.
As i can use about 4 Takedowns-FT in my 45-47 sec rotation time i am not using about a full snipe-snipe-ft-am-ft-sos-ft rotation (cordot i always reapply). But i don't know whether i am right with this.

This rotation is about 0,9 sec shorter then the Takedown one, but as energy management in burn phase as a mm gets a lot easier (in my opinion), i just wont use any RS fillers, etc...

When i count the additional damage from the 4 Takedowns-FT i get an additional 5600 dps per 45 seconds during execution phase which would equal 37,3 dps (about the same as before).

Mathemagica's Avatar


Mathemagica
09.14.2013 , 10:50 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by THoK-Zeus View Post
I am now thinking more closely about that problem.
As i can use about 4 Takedowns-FT in my 45-47 sec rotation time i am not using about a full snipe-snipe-ft-am-ft-sos-ft rotation (cordot i always reapply). But i don't know whether i am right with this.
I am struggling with the execute phase rotation of MM right now as well. Due to the combo based nature of the spec there is almost no way to replace anything by Takedown.
You could either give up one of the combos in the 'basic rotation', you could replace Corrosive Dart by Takedown (and maybe add a Followthrough) or you could just lengthen the rotation by Takedown -> FT.
I didn't calculate it, but I don't think the first one is the best option, because you either give up SoS or the zeroing shots generated by Snipe. Which is the optimal option in a theoretical setting - where the Sniper doesn't have to move - might depend on the talents chosen outside of the MM tree (I'm especially looking at Corrosive Microbes in the second tier of Lethality).

If you lengthen the rotation, you will notice that you do the rotation one time less than before the execute window over the span of 45-48 seconds. In that case you will use Takedown only three times between every Sniper Volley. Forcing Takedown to be used on cooldown seems a bad idea, since it does less damage than Ambush and has the same cooldown for MM.
I also noticed that Sniper Volley messes with the 'basic rotation', because of increased Alacrity and the additional SoS. I couldn't get a grasp of the time gained or lost yet.

I also worry that the optimal way to weave Takedown into the rotation depends highly on Boss mechanics.

CJNJ's Avatar


CJNJ
09.14.2013 , 05:48 PM | #45
Can you use the parses on pts for tactics and assault? I don't think you can really find any good parses from live currently...

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
09.14.2013 , 06:35 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by CJNJ View Post
Can you use the parses on pts for tactics and assault? I don't think you can really find any good parses from live currently...
I would actually *prefer* PTS parses, since the specs are being buffed by quite a bit. Full 72 gear would be appreciated, if nothing else as a skill check and to ensure appropriate crit rates.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
09.14.2013 , 06:38 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by THoK-Zeus View Post
My calculation assume that rotation is not changing, takedown (with FT) is used on cooldown. This gives me 133 dps (assuming 3,2k dps) for execution phase and therefore about 40 dps overall.
This gives me a 1,25% dps increase here.
You need to delay the rest of the rotation by two GCDs though in order to account for the displacement. Generally, in an execute phase, I just stick TD > FT on cooldown, displacing the rest of the rotation. This also means that CD displaces Ambush by a slight bit, since there is no longer the alacrity-driven delay on its cooldown. It also means that Rifle Shot gets removed from the rotation.

Overall, I think your second post is probably closer to accurate. It's a very tricky problem though, to be sure.

Quote: Originally Posted by THoK-Zeus View Post
Altogether i get then a 2,29% dps increase for mm snipers.
Your armor debuff calculations for MM look good. I'll hold off on updating the net scalar though until we've come to a conclusion as to the value of the execute phase.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

oaceen's Avatar


oaceen
09.14.2013 , 08:47 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
I would actually *prefer* PTS parses, since the specs are being buffed by quite a bit. Full 72 gear would be appreciated, if nothing else as a skill check and to ensure appropriate crit rates.
my lack of knight buff has been stalling me on transferring my VG over, but i'll try to think of something.

he doesn't not have full 72, but he's a mixture of a lot of things (61 armorings, crafted implants/earpiece), underworld/arkanian relics, and 72 MH/OH with lots of 72/69 hand-me-downs from my commando

and i feel confident enough with the tactics rotation to do it. i could practice with assault enough to do that one as well as it's very similar to the commando's (procs just happen 1.5s earlier/later)
oaceen assault specialist / oac scrapper / oacao kinetic combatant / oacianado tactician
[Guide] The Dirty Rotten Scoundrel's PvE DPS Compendium

Mathemagica's Avatar


Mathemagica
09.15.2013 , 05:06 AM | #49
I went through the calculation for MM snipers again this morning and here is my approach to it.

The rotation I use during the execute window is the same as before, except that I add TD -> FT at a reasonable point. I approximate the duration of the 'basic rotation' before the execute window by 12 seconds. Further, I assume that between every Sniper Volley I use my rotation 3 times (based on my own parses) and fill the remaining 9 seconds with skills like the additional SoS from Sniper Volley, OS, EP, CD and Rifle Shot.
When I enter the execute phase my rotation lengthens by 3 seconds, so iterating it three times will take 45 + 9 seconds. To avoid further complications I assume that I only use Sniper Volley every 54 seconds in the execute phase. With this we can calculate the dps during the execute phase to be

5/6 * dps + 1/6 * (TD + FT + CD/5)/3

where dps is the dps shown in the parse. TD, FT and CD denote the expected mean damage dealt by TD resp. FT resp. CD after taking critical hits and armor penetration into account (don't forget Corrosive Microbes when calculating CD).
Time averaging over the whole fight gives us

modified dps = 0.7 * dps + 0.3 * ( 5/6 * dps + 1/6 * ( (TD + FT)/3 + CD/15 ) ).

Therefore the damage increase from the original parse to a boss fight in percentage is

(modified dps/dps 1)*100 = ... = -5 + 5 * (TD + FT + CD/5)/(3*dps) %.



I could now insert the stats of my 72 Sniper to calculate TD and FT, however she is far from BiS (read: doesn't have appropriate crit rates) and hence the result wouldn't be very helpful. I also had to simplify the whole story around alacrity. If you guys approve of this method, then a better equipped sniper could provide a scalar, by calculating TD and FT with his current gear and creating a parse with this gear to get a value for dps.

EDIT: Forgot to put in the damage dealt by Corrosive Dart during the three seconds of TD -> FT. Thank you, THoK-Zeus.

THoK-Zeus's Avatar


THoK-Zeus
09.15.2013 , 05:21 AM | #50
@Mathemagica: Doing a quick calculation with your formula gives me a 3,33 dps increase from Execution Phase. (0,10%). That can't be true (atleast that's not what i recognize when there are execution phases in boss fights).
Don't have time today to give you a more detailed answer.