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[Theorycrafting] DPS Scalars Moving from Dummy to Boss

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
[Theorycrafting] DPS Scalars Moving from Dummy to Boss

MGNMTTRN's Avatar


MGNMTTRN
10.31.2013 , 01:49 PM | #131
Quote: Originally Posted by ceazare View Post
Full auto benefits from 20 % armor debuff and 35 % armor penetration from cell and 30 % ignore from the Target Lock talent.

You calculate the equivalent armor rating
7538 * (1 - 0.2) * (1 - (0.35 + 0.3)) = 2111
Insert that into formula for DR
2111 / ( 2111 + 240 * 55 + 800 ) * 100 = 13.1 %
Code:
                          |  min  |  avg  |  max 
full auto tooltips | 2780 | 3030 | 3280
after 13.1% DR  | 2416 | 2633 | 2850
your parse data | 2421 | 2657 | 2844
Your parsed full auto values are within the tooltip range from what I can see.
Ahh okay I was getting stuck at 1-2657/3030 = 0.123 and trying to understand why 0.123 and 0.131 were so different after 100 samples, but looking at it like that that difference seems pretty reasonable.

Similarly the VG hib data came out like this:
Spoiler

Average damage for non-crit HIB samples = 1874. Base 7538 armor * (1-0.45-0.3) = 1884, DR from armor = 0.118, spread 1995-2265 gives center 2130, 2130*(1-0.118) = 1878!

I'm going to skip parsing a Commando 'Gunnery' skill tree that foregoes Demo Round in favor of HIB arpen because the numbers do look reasonable.

Here's a table of dummy-to-boss scalars (which you can apply to Torparse logs) and Tooltip scalars (which you can apply to the average of a tooltip's reported damage). Combat sentinels and Scrapper Scoundrels were left undone; Combat Sent should be pretty simple if you assume base DPS done during the 100% arpen window is the same as base DPS done outside the arpen window and if you know the effective cooldown on Precision Slash; then you can figure out how much damage was done during non-arpen window and increase it by 1.075. Of course the assumption that base DPS done during the 100% arpen window is same as base DPS done outside the window is completely false, but whatever.

I don't know the Scrapper arpen buff's uptime so I couldn't do a table for it. EDIT: in response to Vai's post below this one, if the Scrapper Scoundrel gets 30% arpen for 100% of the time then they have the same arpen as a Focus Sentinel. That's a 1.0579 dummy-to-boss scalar at all times.

For ACs with varying armor penetrations, like Gunnery/Assault Commando, you can do a dot of scalar i * damage done by attack i. So for example if an Assault Commando parses 20k HIB damage (scalar 1.0367), 30k Full Auto damage (scalar 1.058) and 30k Hammershot damage (scalar 1.075) then you could expect him to do ~84724 damage on a boss instead of the 80k that you parsed on a dummy.

I forgot to do a column for Gunslinger Illegal Mods. Oh well.

Vaidinah's Avatar


Vaidinah
10.31.2013 , 04:51 PM | #132
The Scrapper/Concealment Armor Penetration buff is up 100% of the time.
The Harbinger
Intrepid

Guardian/Juggernaut Tank Guide: From Beginner to Master

odawgg's Avatar


odawgg
11.01.2013 , 10:33 PM | #133
Quote: Originally Posted by MGNMTTRN View Post
Here's a table of dummy-to-boss scalars (which you can apply to Torparse logs) and Tooltip scalars (which you can apply to the average of a tooltip's reported damage).
Nice work, thanks

Regnar's Avatar


Regnar
11.03.2013 , 07:54 PM | #134
There are a ton of replies and this is a new thread to me, so I was hoping to pop a question or 2 in here and bypass the 14 pages.

I am a gunnery commando on Begeren Colony. I noticed that for gunnery commandos the adjustment is 0%. I do believe that our in-fight dps will be higher. See below.

1. Sentinels inspiration
2. Any other armor debuff
3. Combat dummies don't move, therefor our electro nets do less damage

If these have already been accounted for then I guess I just need to try harder.

P.S. I like that you guys segregate those darn sabo's
Regnar Kasmak
Co-Leader of REIGN

cs_zoltan's Avatar


cs_zoltan
11.04.2013 , 07:41 AM | #135
1. Inspiration isn't counted for any spec, so it isn't for Gunnery either.
2. Armor debuffs don't stack since 1.3 (or 1.2?)
3. Electro net works different in PVP and PVE. in PVP it stacks up to 10 but only if the target moves, in PVE it stacks up to 5 on it's own, no movement required.
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Regnar's Avatar


Regnar
11.04.2013 , 03:12 PM | #136
Quote: Originally Posted by cs_zoltan View Post
1. Inspiration isn't counted for any spec, so it isn't for Gunnery either.
2. Armor debuffs don't stack since 1.3 (or 1.2?)
3. Electro net works different in PVP and PVE. in PVP it stacks up to 10 but only if the target moves, in PVE it stacks up to 5 on it's own, no movement required.
1) Sounds fair
2) I was more curious about other classes armor debuffs that would take precedence over grav round because of the higher armor reduction. I am not an expert on all classes by any means but if I do recall correctly there is a class that has a 35% or 40% armor reducing debuff which is better than grav round's 20%. But... after researching I have found that everyone is equal across the board of 20%.
3) Interesting.... I will test this. The skill does not specify "up to 5 on it's own, no movement required"

Come on man...! Throw gunnery a bone! Let me get like 2%....
Regnar Kasmak
Co-Leader of REIGN

Jedi_Thran_Kuro's Avatar


Jedi_Thran_Kuro
11.13.2013 , 02:50 PM | #137
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
Nearly all DPS specs gain some advantage from raid buffs and/or execute phases on a boss (Gunnery Commandos / Arsenal Mercs are the notable counter-example). These advantages are not reflected in a dummy parse, which means that class balance will dictate that these classes parse (on a dummy!) somewhat lower than other classes will. The most notable example of this is Shadow/Assassin DPS, which benefits substantially from both an armor debuff and an execute phase.

The "DPS Scalar" referenced in the title of this thread is simply the percentage increase seen by a particular damage dealing spec when moving from a dummy to a boss. Literally, it is a number which can be multiplied into a player's dummy DPS to predict how well they would do on a static boss with an armor debuff and an execute phase. This information is useful from a theory crafting perspective, as well as useful to raid leaders everywhere who need to correctly evaluate which players will do the most damage in actual boss fights based on their dummy parses.

For example, if the scalar for a particular spec is 7%, and a player of that spec parses a 2900 on a dummy, you can expect them to parse 2900 * (1 + 0.07) = 3103 DPS on a real boss.

This is a collaborative thread! There are a lot of DPS specs in the game, and it's going to take me quite a while to get through all of them. Also, I've been known to make mistakes, and getting extra eyes on my math never hurts. If you see a damage dealing spec which doesn't have an associated scalar in the list below, feel free to grab a top-tier dummy parse from any one of the leaderboards, your local copy of torhead, and math out the exact DPS jump that class will see on a boss. Please include the mathematics which justifies your result. Don't just throw a percentage at me and walk away. :-)

Listings

Advanced Classes are listed alphabetically by their Republic mirror, with each accepted spec archetype itemized under the sub-heading.

Commando/Mercenary
  • Gunnery / Arsenal - 0.0%
  • Assault / Pyro - 10.1%

Guardian/Juggernaut
  • Vigilance / Vengeance - 0.56%
  • Focus / Rage - 3.1%

Gunslinger/Sniper

(note: Saboteur/Engineering is omitted due to the difficulty of reliably calculating the DPS effect of the roll on a real boss)
  • Sharpshooter / Marksman - 2.3%
  • Hybrid - 5.24%
  • Dirty Fighting / Lethality - 5.0%

Sage/Sorcerer
  • Telekinetics / Lightning - 7.3%
  • Balance / Madness - 6.7%

Scoundrel/Operative
  • Scrapper / Concealment - 6.2%
  • Dirty Fighting / Lethality - 6.5%

Sentinel/Marauder
  • Watchman / Annihilation - 7.1%
  • Combat / Carnage - 3.8%
  • Focus / Rage - 12.0%

Shadow/Assassin
  • Hybrid - 13.7%
  • Infiltration / Deception - 11.3%
  • Balance / Madness - 15.1%

Vanguard/Powertech
  • Tactics / Advanced Prototype - 3.6%
  • Hybrid - 3.6%
  • Assault / Pyro - 8.2%
This would be an interesting thread to wave under the noses of the devs in my quest to get vigilance guardian some love. Oh, but that MS root, yeah, that's going to be huge. <eyeroll>
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Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
11.24.2013 , 03:33 AM | #138
The Last Centurions Derpyn - Sage / Toughen - Vanguard / Bluffin - Scoundrel / Roughen - Sentinel
Filthy-rich - Juggernaut / Timberwulf - Sniper / Ironwill - Mercenary / Ahuizotl - Assassin

BiS Relics for Healers PvE/PvP

akabane_k's Avatar


akabane_k
11.24.2013 , 04:47 AM | #139
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Dreselus View Post
so, this thread is essentially pointless now. nice

Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
11.24.2013 , 04:51 AM | #140
Quote: Originally Posted by akabane_k View Post
so, this thread is essentially pointless now. nice
And its for the best. No more complex maths and no more BS by devs. Just pure DPS (obv taking into account players of equal skill and gear.)

Inspiration still won't be accounted for but that should not matter too much.
The Last Centurions Derpyn - Sage / Toughen - Vanguard / Bluffin - Scoundrel / Roughen - Sentinel
Filthy-rich - Juggernaut / Timberwulf - Sniper / Ironwill - Mercenary / Ahuizotl - Assassin

BiS Relics for Healers PvE/PvP