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[Theorycrafting] DPS Scalars Moving from Dummy to Boss

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
[Theorycrafting] DPS Scalars Moving from Dummy to Boss

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
09.11.2013 , 12:12 PM | #1
Nearly all DPS specs gain some advantage from raid buffs and/or execute phases on a boss (Gunnery Commandos / Arsenal Mercs are the notable counter-example). These advantages are not reflected in a dummy parse, which means that class balance will dictate that these classes parse (on a dummy!) somewhat lower than other classes will. The most notable example of this is Shadow/Assassin DPS, which benefits substantially from both an armor debuff and an execute phase.

The "DPS Scalar" referenced in the title of this thread is simply the percentage increase seen by a particular damage dealing spec when moving from a dummy to a boss. Literally, it is a number which can be multiplied into a player's dummy DPS to predict how well they would do on a static boss with an armor debuff and an execute phase. This information is useful from a theory crafting perspective, as well as useful to raid leaders everywhere who need to correctly evaluate which players will do the most damage in actual boss fights based on their dummy parses.

For example, if the scalar for a particular spec is 7%, and a player of that spec parses a 2900 on a dummy, you can expect them to parse 2900 * (1 + 0.07) = 3103 DPS on a real boss.

This is a collaborative thread! There are a lot of DPS specs in the game, and it's going to take me quite a while to get through all of them. Also, I've been known to make mistakes, and getting extra eyes on my math never hurts. If you see a damage dealing spec which doesn't have an associated scalar in the list below, feel free to grab a top-tier dummy parse from any one of the leaderboards, your local copy of torhead, and math out the exact DPS jump that class will see on a boss. Please include the mathematics which justifies your result. Don't just throw a percentage at me and walk away. :-)

Listings

Advanced Classes are listed alphabetically by their Republic mirror, with each accepted spec archetype itemized under the sub-heading.

Commando/Mercenary
  • Gunnery / Arsenal - 0.0%
  • Assault / Pyro - 10.1%

Guardian/Juggernaut
  • Vigilance / Vengeance - 0.56%
  • Focus / Rage - 3.1%

Gunslinger/Sniper

(note: Saboteur/Engineering is omitted due to the difficulty of reliably calculating the DPS effect of the roll on a real boss)
  • Sharpshooter / Marksman - 2.3%
  • Hybrid - 5.24%
  • Dirty Fighting / Lethality - 5.0%

Sage/Sorcerer
  • Telekinetics / Lightning - 7.3%
  • Balance / Madness - 6.7%

Scoundrel/Operative
  • Scrapper / Concealment - 6.2%
  • Dirty Fighting / Lethality - 6.5%

Sentinel/Marauder
  • Watchman / Annihilation - 7.1%
  • Combat / Carnage - 3.8%
  • Focus / Rage - 12.0%

Shadow/Assassin
  • Hybrid - 13.7%
  • Infiltration / Deception - 11.3%
  • Balance / Madness - 15.1%

Vanguard/Powertech
  • Tactics / Advanced Prototype - 3.6%
  • Hybrid - 3.6%
  • Assault / Pyro - 8.2%
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Streaming Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
09.11.2013 , 12:21 PM | #2
Stolen shamelessly from my post on the shadow draft questions thread…

Taking wild-berry's balance parse… We have three raid factors to consider:
  • Spinning Strike instead of Double Strike below 30%
  • Execute talent below 30% (+15% to FiB and DoTs)
  • Armor debuff

The execute talent is the easiest one to calculate. The talent affects 62.07% of wild-berry's damage and increases the DPS value by 15%. Thus, the talent is worth 0.15 * 0.6207 * 0.3 = 2.79%. (note: that's actually worth a bit less than the vanguard execute talent)

The armor debuff can be calculated similarly. 74.97% of wild-berry's damage is affected by armor. Thus, that damage is reduced by 35% on a dummy. The armor debuff would account for the following DPS increase: 0.7497 * ((1 - 0.35 * (1 - 0.2)) / (1 - 0.35) - 1) = 8.07%

Spinning Strike does almost exactly 90% more damage than Double Strike does. Double Strike was used 71 times in 300 seconds, which is once every 4.2 seconds. Given that Spinning Strike has a higher cost than Double Strike, we have to cheat that number up a bit below 30%. So, we'll say that Spinning Strike replaces every other Double Strike below 30%. Double Strike makes up 26.47% of wild-berry's damage. Spinning Strike increases the damage from Double Strike by 45% below 30%. Thus, the value of Spinning Strike can be calculated as 0.2647 * 0.45 * 0.3 = 3.57%

These buffs stack multiplicatively. Thus, we can compute the total damage buff for a balance shadow going from a dummy to a boss as the following: (1 + 0.0279) * (1 + 0.0807) * (1 + 0.0357) - 1 = 15.05% Going back to wild-berry's parse, his 2772.97 DPS is worth 3190.3 DPS on a real boss.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Streaming Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
09.11.2013 , 12:25 PM | #3
For hybrid vanguard/powertech, using Mruniverse's record parse as an example…

Hybrid does not have an execute talent. Thus, the only factor to consider is the armor debuff and its effect on K/E damage. 33.67% of hybrid's damage is K/E, which means that the armor debuff has the following value: 0.1076 * 0.3367 = 3.62%.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Streaming Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
09.11.2013 , 12:42 PM | #4
Update: The time-averaging math for Spinning Strike is wrong. Thok posted a correction here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...6&postcount=33

For infiltration, using Aerre's record parse as an example…

We have three factors to consider:
  • Armor debuff scaled by base armor pen in the spec
  • Spinning Strike below 30%
  • Execute talent below 30%

The execute talent is 6% damage boost below 30%. Thus, the time-averaged value is 0.06 * 0.3 = 0.018.

The armor debuff is an additional 20% armor pen, which stacks additively with the 9% armor pen from the stance. 66.6% of infiltration's damage is K/E. That gives us the following scalar: 0.666 * ((1 - 0.35 * (1 - 0.2 - 0.09)) / (1 - 0.35 * (1 - 0.09)) - 1) = 0.0684.

Aerre used CS on average once every 5.17 seconds in his parse. Spinning Strike has a 6 second CD, which means it could almost replace every CS below 30%. Unfortunately, it doesn't refresh the Clairvoyance buff, which must be refreshed once every 15 seconds. This means that we still have to use CS at least once every 15 seconds, and thus Spinning Strike only replaces 60% of CS uses below 30%. The lower force cost also reduces the amount of Saber Strike by a slight amount, but this is reflected in the fudged percentages given in the previous sentence.

Spinning Strike is almost precisely 66.5% more powerful than Clairvoyant Strike, even including the set bonus. Justification here:

Spoiler


Thus, we can compute the value of Spinning Strike as the following: (0.3 * (0.1954 * (1 - 0.6) + 0.1954 * (1 + 0.665) * 0.6) + (1 - 0.3) * 0.1954) / 0.1954 - 1 = 0.1197

These buffs are multiplicative. Thus, we have (1 + 0.1197) * (1 + 0.018) * (1 + 0.0684) - 1 = 21.78%.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Streaming Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

ekimmak's Avatar


ekimmak
09.11.2013 , 05:41 PM | #5
Wait, you're cutting out engineering, due to the difficulties of calculating roll damage?

Can't you just make the theory craft without the scatter bombs, or is that truly the only reason people would ever even consider bringing one into an op?
Best way to end Smuggler Act 1 is
Spoiler

You can't make up stuff like that.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
09.11.2013 , 06:02 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by ekimmak View Post
Wait, you're cutting out engineering, due to the difficulties of calculating roll damage?

Can't you just make the theory craft without the scatter bombs, or is that truly the only reason people would ever even consider bringing one into an op?
Well, roll damage is actually very easy to calculate. The real question is: how much damage of that is actually viable on a boss? Well, if we assume a static raid boss the size of Thrasher, then 100%. If we assume it's a huminoid boss that we can't hold against a wall, then it's another question. I'm open to suggestions here though. If you feel like you have a mathematically sound way to account for the average variance in roll viability, let's go for it!
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Streaming Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
09.11.2013 , 06:12 PM | #7
For Lethality Operative / Dirty Fighting Scoundrel, taking Kelaeon's parse as an example…

Lethality has no base armor penetration, and it has an execute talent but no ability.

The execute talent can be calculated in the standard way. The talent is +15% damage from Poison effects below 30%. The one trick is that the extra Cull ticks are counted as Poison damage, while still being labeled "Cull". We can factor this out by just looking at internal damage and figuring back from there. Fortunately, all of the Internal damage sources are Poisons (and there are no Poisons which are not Internal), so we can simply take the value of 53.77% as the damage figure which is increased by the execute. 0.5377 * 0.15 * 0.3 = 0.0242.

36.92% of Kelaeon's damage was K/E. Thus, the armor debuff can be valued as 0.1076 * 0.3692 = 0.0397.

We stack these buffs multiplicatively, since even though the damage types are disjoint, we've already accounted for their separation by scaling by the percentage of total damage done. Thus, we have (1 + 0.0242)*(1 + 0.0397) - 1 = 6.49%.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Streaming Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

ekimmak's Avatar


ekimmak
09.11.2013 , 06:12 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
Well, roll damage is actually very easy to calculate. The real question is: how much damage of that is actually viable on a boss? Well, if we assume a static raid boss the size of Thrasher, then 100%. If we assume it's a huminoid boss that we can't hold against a wall, then it's another question. I'm open to suggestions here though. If you feel like you have a mathematically sound way to account for the average variance in roll viability, let's go for it!
Oh, no, that wasn't my point. I'm just showing myself as ignorant in that I don't know whether Scatter Bombs are really such a large part of their DPS, that not having a 100% theorycraft for that one part means they should be discluded.
Best way to end Smuggler Act 1 is
Spoiler

You can't make up stuff like that.

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ArenCordial
09.11.2013 , 06:19 PM | #9
I like the idea here KBN but I worry some people will probably use this as gospel to evaluate a class. Considering it can't take into account the disadvantages that class' experience from mechanics, maybe it would be better to not really be considered for a boss but rather optimal conditions. A limited HP Dummy so to speak. The title might throw some people off.

thejollygreenone's Avatar


thejollygreenone
09.11.2013 , 07:09 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by ekimmak View Post
Oh, no, that wasn't my point. I'm just showing myself as ignorant in that I don't know whether Scatter Bombs are really such a large part of their DPS, that not having a 100% theorycraft for that one part means they should be discluded.
i remember hearing once an engineering parse without scatter bombs on a dummy should look more like 2700, which is monstrously less.

if someone has firsthand knowledge on this feel free to correct me, i'm curious too
<Ebon Hawk>
Mikaeel - Shadow <Aisthesis>