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Worst P2W I've seen.


Stradlin's Avatar


Stradlin
09.01.2013 , 02:47 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by AdrianDmitruk View Post
EVE Online says hi.

"But, but, they only sell PLEX and maybe a monocle here and there!"

Step 1: Buy 50 plex
Step 2: Sell 50 plex for 400-500mil each (last I checked)
Step 3: Search contract market for high end bling, and/or check the officially sanctioned and regulated characters for sale forum to buy a toon with skills you want (thus bypassing months or years of RL training time on your own toon)
Step 4: ???
Step 5: Profit

Though it is hilarious when a blinged out, P2W PVE ship gets ganked by a clever PVPer when said P2W PVEr is clueless as to EVE's PVP risk mechanics.
Comparing such complex and deep social engineering economy sandbox to WoW clone is a little misleading. As closing of your own post kinda suggests, what exactly you are flying, how good 'gear' and 'talent tree' you have in Eve Online isn't in heart of it all, in terms of what you can and can not now do in game, in same way it is in TOR. Having said that, they undeniably make very similar "soft P2W" fn you will; For modest amount of IRL cash you can buy yourself out of months of money grind. Having said that having said that - part, if you are willing to spend..what, 1100 dollars on your MMO(your steps 1 and 2 ) changes are, it much changes your experience in-game in any and all MMO ever made

This form of P2W present saddens me to a degree. What is much more disturbing and depressing is how dominant cash shop items in TOR have become. Vast majority of gear with unique graphics are brought to game with IRL cash now. Vast majority of new content added to game is all about this visual junk being added. Ultimately I blame community for it; community was so gosh darned 'easy' to please. Instead of demanding deeper, more enjoyable and better tuned MMO, signigficant enough portion of subscribers turned all star eyed from being able to buy a bathrobe with name Revan on it for 5 dollah. Instead of forcing EA to WORK for the succes of their 200 mil MMO, community ensured it was enough of them to start selling xmas holo trees for 5 dollah. We are very easy and we made turning TOR to comfortably profitable very easy.
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Lunafox's Avatar


Lunafox
09.01.2013 , 02:57 AM | #12
As far as I'm concerned, 'pay2win' means, that gear that is comparable to your top raid and pvp gear is available to be purchased for cash money from a cash shop. That's not happening here, so in the strictest sense, I don't feel it's 'pay2win'.

What is happening, is that people are amassing credits by selling cartel crap on the gtn, and they use this money to upgrade their stuff, via the crafted mods on the market.

I for one, have no issue with this, because I don't raid, I'm a solo player, but I still like to feel like I can stand up to the content. I'm not the best, but I'm not mediocre either. The way the system is, allows everyone to have a crack at the CM items, without having to buy off the cash shop. It lets people who can craft, actually craft things of worth, and it does take time and investment to be able to make these things.

Also if you think the f2p people are cashing in, in a big way and are able to buy all this stuff, they can't, because they're limited in the money amount they can hold, so they won't be buying mods that sell for 1.2 million a piece...and when you have to get 21 of these mods for a set of armour at over a million each a lot of times for top mods, you have to find a way to raise the money. The players that choose to do this, are paying a sub, and probably paying for boxes...people like me, and we should have the option to play this way, its our money. Even so, I can't afford to buy for all my toons the mods they need. I run my toons on a max of lvl 66 gear that I can craft the bits for myself.

This game already has precious little to craft for good value, and if they stop this, well you may as well delete all the crafting things, because they won't be worth doing. Doing the group content will still get you the best gear going without spending a dime in the game, so I don't see this as a pay2win in the strictest sense, imo.

Stradlin's Avatar


Stradlin
09.01.2013 , 03:03 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Lunafox View Post

Also if you think the f2p people are cashing in, in a big way and are able to buy all this stuff, they can't, because they're limited in the money amount they can hold, so they won't be buying mods that sell for 1.2 million a piece..
..This is completely OT but above isn't exactly true. I'm FTP(Well, Freemium) for significant majority of my time in TOR and actually find it very fun and rewarding to come up with ways of trading my self exceptionally expensive stuff despite my credit cap. If pick this approach(or as FTP, are forced to pick this approach) you end up doing yourself a favor in long run;p Unavoidably you develop a very good idea of what is easy to sell, what is hard to sell, how GTN and /trade channel 'games' work.
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TechbotAlpha's Avatar


TechbotAlpha
09.01.2013 , 03:03 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Buggs View Post
Yep exactly, however I'm thinking beyond this.

Anyway I realised I cba with the point as it'll be opposed by those with the credits and they would claim to have none anyway.
I have never got above about 300k on any character. My highest is level 27, about to ding 28 (I suffer from altitis) So I'm very much not one of those 'with credits'.

You're STILL wrong.

Buggs's Avatar


Buggs
09.01.2013 , 03:04 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by TheNahash View Post
...... you CANNOT buy the highest tier of gear because it's not craftable. At best, you might end up with a character whose PVE gear is one level below the highest tier .....
This one I will respond to as it's well-considered.

However 1 tier below the best still has a big drag on all the tiers below and the cartel items that can be bought for cash and sold for in-game currency (be that credits or gold-quality tradables like mass manips or others that hold their value well) therefore have a significant effect on the difficulty of the game.

Simply adding more difficulty settings doesn't help either as those without the "pay" resources others have don't have the chance to buy the gear needed for the higher levels meaning less cash denies some of the population content easily accessible to those with cash.

So it might not be the simplistic P2W mentioned above but it's certainly an extended version of it.

Buggs's Avatar


Buggs
09.01.2013 , 03:05 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by TechbotAlpha View Post
I have never got above about 300k on any character. My highest is level 27, about to ding 28 (I suffer from altitis) So I'm very much not one of those 'with credits'.

You're STILL wrong.
You can't possibly understand my point if you've not passed lvl 27 yet.

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
09.01.2013 , 03:17 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Buggs View Post
This one I will respond to as it's well-considered.

However 1 tier below the best still has a big drag on all the tiers below and the cartel items that can be bought for cash and sold for in-game currency (be that credits or gold-quality tradables like mass manips or others that hold their value well) therefore have a significant effect on the difficulty of the game.

Simply adding more difficulty settings doesn't help either as those without the "pay" resources others have don't have the chance to buy the gear needed for the higher levels meaning less cash denies some of the population content easily accessible to those with cash.

So it might not be the simplistic P2W mentioned above but it's certainly an extended version of it.
A) You can't craft PvP gear
B) The PvE tier BELOW BiS being craftable is hardly pay to win. You can use credits earned in-game to skip 4 weeks of grind. You can also use credits earned in-game to buy 25% xp buffs off the gtn. Neither are P2W.
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Majspuffen's Avatar


Majspuffen
09.01.2013 , 03:23 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by AshlaBoga View Post
A) You can't craft PvP gear
B) The PvE tier BELOW BiS being craftable is hardly pay to win. You can use credits earned in-game to skip 4 weeks of grind. You can also use credits earned in-game to buy 25% xp buffs off the gtn. Neither are P2W.
You can still pay your way through a lot of content. I recently decided to take a break from pvp and do a bit of pve. I had to start in crappy blue level 53 gear, though me and a friend did joke about buying cartel market junk, sell on the GTN and flat out buy good gear because that would get us into Operations without having to grind Flashpoints.

So this game does have P2W in my opinion. Perhaps it is a mild version, but when you can use real money to get in-game currency to upgrade in-game gear, it is P2W.

Stoofa's Avatar


Stoofa
09.01.2013 , 03:31 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Majspuffen View Post
I had to start in crappy blue level 53 gear, though me and a friend did joke about buying cartel market junk, sell on the GTN and flat out buy good gear because that would get us into Operations without having to grind Flashpoints.
No it doesn't - you've just contradicted yourself in your own post.
In the above statement you could simply "grind flashpoints". You are NOT forced to spend money to remain competitive.
Spend a week doing nothing but dailies. Take 1 character and do BH, Section X, Makeb and Czerka each day.
You'll have a load of basic coms - for gear certainly better than the Blue 53's and you'll be more than ready for HM flashpoints. Once you start these you'll start earning Elite coms.
At no point in that process do you HAVE to spend credits.

So as has already been said - there is no P2W.

Buggs's Avatar


Buggs
09.01.2013 , 03:37 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Stoofa View Post
No it doesn't - you've just contradicted yourself in your own post.
In the above statement you could simply "grind flashpoints". You are NOT forced to spend money to remain competitive.
Spend a week doing nothing but dailies. Take 1 character and do BH, Section X, Makeb and Czerka each day.
You'll have a load of basic coms - for gear certainly better than the Blue 53's and you'll be more than ready for HM flashpoints. Once you start these you'll start earning Elite coms.
At no point in that process do you HAVE to spend credits.

So as has already been said - there is no P2W.
ANYTHING can be done with enough time, part of the P2W philosophy is that you skip enormous amounts of time and grind to get there a lot quicker. If someone's so far beyond needing credits it's easy to lose sight of the restrictions of having very little (relatively speaking) all over again.

P.S. I have no interest in PVP in any way and the dedicated gear has very little influence on the PVE content which is the major part of the game.