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The REAL Most Powerful Force Users

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
The REAL Most Powerful Force Users

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
06.27.2013 , 04:17 PM | #601
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Can you quote anymore of it. It could prove useful.
Quote:
A tremor took hold of the planet.

Sprung from death, it unleashed itself in a powerful wave, at once burrowing deep into the world’s core and radiating through its saccharine atmosphere to shake the stars themselves. At the quake’s epicenter stood Sidious, one elegant hand vised on the burnished sill of an expansive translucency, a vessel filled suddenly to bursting, the Force so strong within him that he feared he might disappear into it, never to return. But the moment didn’t constitute an ending so much as a true beginning, long overdue; it was less a transformation than an intensification—a gravitic shift.

A welter of voices, near and far, present and from eons past, drowned his thoughts. Raised in praise, the voices proclaimed his reign and cheered the inauguration of a new order. Yellow eyes lifted to the night sky, he saw the trembling stars flare, and in the depth of his being he felt the power of the dark side anoint him.

Slowly, almost reluctantly, he came back to himself, his gaze settling on his manicured hands. Returned to the present, he took note of his rapid breathing, while behind him the room labored to restore order. Air scrubbers hummed—costly wall tapestries undulating in the summoned breeze. Prized carpets sealed their fibers against the spread of spilled fluids. The droid shuffled in obvious confliction. Sidious pivoted to take in the disarray: antique furniture overturned; framed artwork askew. As if a whirlwind had swept through. And facedown on the floor lay a statue of Yanjon, one of four law-giving sages of Dwartii.
A piece Sidious had secretly coveted.

Also sprawled there, Plagueis: his slender limbs splayed and elongated head turned to one side. Dressed in finery, as for a night on the town.
And now dead.
Or was he?
Uncertainty rippled through Sidious, rage returning to his eyes. A tremor of his own making, or one of forewarning? Was it possible that the wily Muun had deceived him? Had Plagueis unlocked the key to immortality, and survived after all? Never mind that it would constitute a petty move for one so wise—for one who had professed to place the Grand Plan above all else. Had Plagueis become ensnared in a self-spun web of jealousy and possessiveness, victim of his own engineering, his own foibles?

If he hadn’t been concerned for his own safety, Sidious might have pitied him. Wary of approaching the corpse of his former Master, he called on the Force to roll the aged Muun over onto his back. From that angle Plagueis looked almost as he had when Sidious first met him, decades earlier: smooth, hairless cranium; humped nose, with its bridge flattened as if from a shock-ball blow and its sharp tip pressed almost to his upper lip; jutting lower jaw; sunken eyes still brimming with menace—a physical characteristic rarely encountered in a Muun. But then Plagueis had never been an ordinary Muun, nor an ordinary being of any sort.

Sidious took care, still reaching out with the Force. On closer inspection, he saw that Plagueis’s already cyanotic flesh was smoothing out, his features relaxing.
Faintly aware of the whir of air scrubbers and sounds of the outside world infiltrating the luxurious suite, he continued the vigil; then, in relief, he pulled himself up to his full height and let out his breath. This was no Sith trick. Not an instance of feigning death, but one of succumbing to its cold embrace. The being who had guided him to power was gone.

Wry amusement narrowed his eyes.
The Muun might have lived another hundred years unchanged. He might have lived forever had he succeeded fully in his quest. But in the end—though he could save others from death—he had failed to save himself.
A sense of supreme accomplishment puffed Sidious’s chest, and his thoughts unreeled.
Well, then, that wasn’t nearly as bad as we thought it might be...

Rarely did events play out as imagined, in any case. The order of future events was transient. In the same way that the past was reconfigured by selective memory, future events, too, were moving targets. One could only act on instinct, grab hold of an intuited perfect moment, and spring into action. One heartbeat late and the universe would have recomposed itself, no imposition of will sufficient to forestall the currents. One could only observe and react. Surprise was the element absent from any periodic table. A keystone element; a missing ingredient. The means by which the Force amused itself. A reminder to all sentient beings that some secrets could never be unlocked.
Confident that the will of the dark side had been done, he returned to the suite’s window wall. Two beings in a galaxy of countless trillions, but what had transpired in the suite would affect the lives of all of them. Already the galaxy had been shaped by the birth of one, and henceforth would be reshaped by the death of the other. But had the change been felt and recognized elsewhere? Were his sworn enemies aware that the Force had shifted irrevocably? Would it be enough to rouse them from self-righteousness? He hoped not. For now the work of vengeance could begin in earnest.

His eyes sought and found an ascending constellation of stars, one of power and consequence new to the sky, though soon to be overwhelmed by dawn’s first light. Low in the sky over the flatlands, visible only to those who knew where and how to look, it ushered in a bold future. To some the stars and planets might seem to be moving as ever, destined to align in configurations calculated long before their fiery births. But in fact the heavens had been perturbed, tugged by dark matter into novel alignments. In his mouth, Sidious tasted the tang of blood; in his chest, he felt the monster rising, emerging from shadowy depths and contorting his aspect into something fearsome just short of revealing itself to the world.

The dark side had made him its property, and now he made the dark side his.
Breathless, not from exertion but from the sudden inspiration of power, he let go of the sill and allowed the monster to writhe through his body like an unbroken beast of range or prairie.
Had the Force ever been so strong in anyone?

Sidious had never learned how Plagueis’s own Master had met his end. Had he died at Plagueis’s hand? Had Plagueis, too, experienced a similar exultation on becoming a sole Sith Lord? Had the beast of the end time risen then to peek at the world it was to inhabit, knowing its release was imminent?

--Taken from Darth Plagueis
There ya go...though still Sidious continued to grow in power.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
06.27.2013 , 04:58 PM | #602
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
There ya go...though still Sidious continued to grow in power.
Oh, I meant the other part but never mind. Its questionable whether by killing his master he grew more powerful, it may have simply been a brief surge in dark side energy - sort of a moment of Oneness I suppose. And I'm fairly confident that the other quote is referring to Sidious around the point of Plagueis death, so he is referring to the decades between when he became Plagueis apprentice and when he killed his master, or perhaps even before that. So he is not saying his powers increased tenfold after Plagueis death.

That said I'm sure that Sidious' powers did increase after his death, but by no more than 10%. I cannot imagine he would have not reached the near pinnacle of his power by the ripe age of 50, and nowhere in lore does it suggest that the literal presence of other powerful dark siders makes them collectively weaker. But anyway, I'd like to here everyone's thoughts on this. So perhaps submit your own list/what changes you feel should be made.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
06.27.2013 , 05:03 PM | #603
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Oh, I meant the other part but never mind. Its questionable whether by killing his master he grew more powerful, it may have simply been a brief surge in dark side energy - sort of a moment of Oneness I suppose. And I'm fairly confident that the other quote is referring to Sidious around the point of Plagueis death, so he is referring to the decades between when he became Plagueis apprentice and when he killed his master, or perhaps even before that. So he is not saying his powers increased tenfold after Plagueis death.

That said I'm sure that Sidious' powers did increase after his death, but by no more than 10%. I cannot imagine he would have not reached the near pinnacle of his power by the ripe age of 50, and nowhere in lore does it suggest that the literal presence of other powerful dark siders makes them collectively weaker. But anyway, I'd like to here everyone's thoughts on this. So perhaps submit your own list/what changes you feel should be made.
Well this wasn't really the point being made here, point being Vader was strong enough to kill a more powerful Sidious who had surpassed his master yes?...So there ya go.

But I think at a few instances, we got off somewhere wrong. Because it seems we have been going back and forth on this "its only including raw power" to "well so and so done this" so...I mean which is it? We going by raw power, or Force application?
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

marcelo_sdk's Avatar


marcelo_sdk
06.27.2013 , 09:38 PM | #604
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Well this wasn't really the point being made here, point being Vader was strong enough to kill a more powerful Sidious who had surpassed his master yes?...So there ya go.

But I think at a few instances, we got off somewhere wrong. Because it seems we have been going back and forth on this "its only including raw power" to "well so and so done this" so...I mean which is it? We going by raw power, or Force application?
Remember that we are talking about a fiction work. There's no oficial way to measure one's "raw power", especially with unexplored characters, like Vitiate and Marek. So, the only way we can have a judgment about his powers is by analyzing how they applied it. So, it's not completely diferente things like you make sound.
THE SHEPARD LEGACY

Master Goldrinn Shepard [Human Jedi Guardian] | Darth Saeros [Cyborg Sith Jugg.]
Erendis Barsen'thor [Human Jedi Shadow] | Darth Kamul [Zabrak Sith Assassin]

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
06.28.2013 , 04:46 AM | #605
Quote: Originally Posted by marcelo_sdk View Post
Remember that we are talking about a fiction work. There's no oficial way to measure one's "raw power", especially with unexplored characters, like Vitiate and Marek. So, the only way we can have a judgment about his powers is by analyzing how they applied it. So, it's not completely diferente things like you make sound.
This basically. We are gauging Force ability, but we can go about doing that in different ways. Feats are one way of doing it, how they stack up against others is another, and then we have various character statements and out-of-universe quotes.

I think the list is almost done. One last thing I feel needs to be addressed however is Jaina vs Vader. for #8 - I'm struggling to choose a side.

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LadyKulvax
06.28.2013 , 05:28 AM | #606
Vader as has been stated uses his strength in the Dark Side a lot for his lightsaber duels, as stated in the ROTJ novel, he threw everything at Luke in that final duel, having re-read the novel, he does decide that actions speak louder than words and wants to show his son how much more powerful the Dark Side, is, he succeeds but only at his own expense.

If ROTJ Luke can defeat Vader, I am certain FOTJ Jaina Solo could.

Her specific powers simply show slightly greater command of the Force than her Grandfather wielded, I think the fact she faced Caedus twice in a row and not only survived but won, shows how powerful she was and her later use of Force Speed whilst severely injured to kill nearly 20 Sith Sabers is frankly an astonishing feat considering that the Lost Tribe were no mess abouts they were a powerful Sith organization.

And her command of Force Lightning when she has close brushes with the Dark Side is kind of frightening, especially when you consider it mangled and fried the Vong she used it on, described as deformed, it also killed Lost Tribe Sith very quickly, showing her abilities to break directly through force barriers with ease.

Her ability to change and alter a Force Users' mind is very impressive to, especially considering she could use it to trick the Vong as well.

Then there are of course her abilities in Stealth which are many and numerous and all very powerful, especially her Force Concealment, it worked so well that a Sith Lord of Darth Caedus' power didnt even know she was there at first in their second engagement.

Then you have her Healing Trance technique which has brought herself back from the brink of death quite a few times, which is very impressive considering that a regular Force User can't heal much beyond a broken bone or two, where as she could bring herself back from near death to almost full strength in not too long a time at all and whilst in LOTF this did exhaust her use of the Force for awhile it got more impressive in FOTJ when even after facing down multiple Sith and killing them using a massive burst of Force Speed, she still had enough left in the tank to heal her severe injuries, which she had gained before her showdown with the Lost Tribe.
"Go ahead, Rebel—let's get it over with. Turn Grand Admiral Teshik to smoke. You'll be smoke, too, soon enough. For each of our wars is just one little piece of a greater war, one endless and incalculably larger."
Peace War Death

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
06.28.2013 , 05:40 AM | #607
You make a good case, I think I'll leave Jaina above Vader for the time being.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
06.28.2013 , 06:58 AM | #608
I'm still not sure about Caedus, he can fight GM Luke but can't fight against Mara or Jaina?...Seems rather inconsistent. Though lets not forget Luke only won against Vader, by tapping into the darkside so he didn't really win by his own merits. Lets also not forget his others applications of The Force, that he did also will himself back to life too, and became a Force Ghost without an prior knowledge of what that even is among other things.

So as far as Force Application, Vader > Galen.

Though as per Jaina fighting Caedus, the books seems to say that she was being amped as their 1st time(this ain't me, this is my source)...as so..

Quote:
"Despite the ringing in her ears and the gauze in her head-despite her hugely aching skull and the big knot of hurt swelling on her brow-Jaina had never been so filled with the Force. She could feel it in every cell of her body, swirling through her like fire, burning more ferociously every moment. She had never felt so strong or so quick or so alert. She could drive her fist through a durasteel wall, or catch a blaster bolt between her fingers. Despite the red curtain of blood cascading from the gash where Vatok's helmet had split her forehead, she was aware of everything."
Then all of a sudden afterwards.

Quote:
"Then Jaina experienced an abrupt draining as her Force energies returned to their normal level. Suddenly she felt cold, tired, and in pain, and she barely had the strength to hold her lightsaber as it flicked back and forth, batting away blaster bolts."
So unless that was a different time there, when Caedus wasn't in the picture then...ok fine. But Caedus seems to be inconsistent with who he can fight. Though the 2nd fight, can't be ignored as it wasn't exactly a fair fight being Caedus was more worried about his family and was stabbed in the stomach before it even began.

I mean Caedus' power is there, yet he is inconsistent at where the power is at times. Either he is inconsistent, or he is just not as powerful as he is made out to be.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
06.28.2013 , 08:48 AM | #609
As for Caedus, we do have some hard facts on him, he was said to be one of the most powerful Sith Lords of all time, and more powerful than Darth Vader. Aside from Skywalker, Jaina was thought to be the only one in the Jedi Order who could defeat him, and even she needed help. I think that alone justifies his position above Jaina, Vader and Kyp. His abilities in Sense and Control rival that of Plagueis, even Plagueis ability to manipulate midi-chlorians. Various over powerful abilities such as Force barrier manifested themselves at a very young age. He's achieved Oneness on a level none other has achieve before and has matched many of Plagueis abilities in Alter.

As for Marek, he had the potential to become the most powerful Force user ever, and he achieved much of that potential under Vader's tutelage. That alone speaks volumes.

EDIT: I'm not sure what you mean by your other point. Caedus defeated Jaina the first time despite having suffered a shoulder injury beforehand, having his arm severed, and having Luke Skywalker amp Jaina's abilities (which is what was happening.) And like you said in the second fight he was distracted, and kinda gave up.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
06.28.2013 , 09:47 AM | #610
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
As for Caedus, we do have some hard facts on him, he was said to be one of the most powerful Sith Lords of all time, and more powerful than Darth Vader. Aside from Skywalker, Jaina was thought to be the only one in the Jedi Order who could defeat him, and even she needed help. I think that alone justifies his position above Jaina, Vader and Kyp. His abilities in Sense and Control rival that of Plagueis, even Plagueis ability to manipulate midi-chlorians. Various over powerful abilities such as Force barrier manifested themselves at a very young age. He's achieved Oneness on a level none other has achieve before and has matched many of Plagueis abilities in Alter.

As for Marek, he had the potential to become the most powerful Force user ever, and he achieved much of that potential under Vader's tutelage. That alone speaks volumes.

EDIT: I'm not sure what you mean by your other point. Caedus defeated Jaina the first time despite having suffered a shoulder injury beforehand, having his arm severed, and having Luke Skywalker amp Jaina's abilities (which is what was happening.) And like you said in the second fight he was distracted, and kinda gave up.
Yet were not going by potential are we cause Galen never reached it right? If so then Anakin would be 3rd, given his potential had he not been severed and yet he still became powerful enough to kill Sidious in his older body whereas Galen couldn't do so.

So wouldn't Vader's prime(being ROTJ) > Galen Pre- ANH?

Oh...well I was assuming that you were saying that Jaina beat Caedus all by herself, when there were other factors in play.

Edit: Wait, wait, wait...so Jaina didn't beat Caedus in their 1st duel?
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.