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The REAL Most Powerful Force Users

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
The REAL Most Powerful Force Users

Lord_Karsk's Avatar


Lord_Karsk
06.19.2013 , 04:13 AM | #201
Quote: Originally Posted by RTCBrad View Post
We already know Vitiate is more powerful than Kun and Malgus theres no room for debate on that. Neither of them earn a spot in the top 10 imo.

Perhaps at a stretch Kun can be argued in somewhere around 8-10 but certainly not Malgus
Let me invalidate this Reason why Vitiate is not canon is because the jedi knight in this game kills Vitiate.
He defeat him fair and sqare, and jedi knight in this game is not canon, dont even exist on written word anywere, its a
class in a game. For even the story line to be canon they have to do what Drew did to Revan in Revan novel, and they
have not done that.So by this fact the jedi knight in this game is on that list, but of course he/she is not because that storyline is not canon AND never happen.See were i'm going with this ??

Kaedusz's Avatar


Kaedusz
06.19.2013 , 04:34 AM | #202
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_Karsk View Post
Let me invalidate this Reason why Vitiate is not canon is because the jedi knight in this game kills Vitiate
He defeat him fair and sqare, and jedi knight in this game is not canon, dont even exist on written word anywere, its a
class in a game. For even the story line to be canon they have to do what Drew did to Revan in Revan novel, and they
have not done that.So by this fact the jedi knight in this game is on that list, but of course he/she is not because that storyline is not canon AND never happen.See were i'm going with this ??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI0RoJz7Tno

to say at least

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
06.19.2013 , 04:38 AM | #203
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_Karsk View Post
Let me invalidate this Reason why Vitiate is not canon is because the jedi knight in this game kills Vitiate.
He defeat him fair and sqare, and jedi knight in this game is not canon, dont even exist on written word anywere, its a
class in a game. For even the story line to be canon they have to do what Drew did to Revan in Revan novel, and they
have not done that.So by this fact the jedi knight in this game is on that list, but of course he/she is not because that storyline is not canon AND never happen.See were i'm going with this ??
No the jedi Knight is cannon by the way the proper title for Jedi Knight is "The hero of Tython" he was a real person in the star wars universe. Vitiate is the strongest of the time by the information given in-game Jedi knight only defeated the Voice and we specifically KNOW that he was weakened at the time its why the JK goes to face him there you go all your information is debunked and ya its just known Cannon that Vitiate was the strongest being up until that time all that came before were weaker end of debate no point argueing that any further.

Lord_Karsk's Avatar


Lord_Karsk
06.19.2013 , 04:44 AM | #204
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
No the jedi Knight is cannon

Really ? What is the name of this jedi knight ???? What happen to this jedi after this fight ??
How did this Jedi die, old age ? battle ? does it say in wookieepedia ?? Did this jedi use a singel saber,,dual saber
staff saber ?? Is there a picture of this 1 jedi ? see were i'm going with this ?

As i said before Jedi knight class story in swtor is not canon, even bioware have said this one time.
It's like saying the gameplay in revenge of the sith on PS2 was canon, of course not.Game mecanics !
Anyone who dont understand these things and talk about them just embarrass them self.

Lord_Karsk's Avatar


Lord_Karsk
06.19.2013 , 04:51 AM | #205
What some of you ignoramus stupidious lolslore forums heroes need to understand it that nothing
is canon until it is in the A movies B animated series C novels.

For jedi knight story to be canon a autor must give them character a gender,aligment as was that character
a lightside/darkside jedi.What he/she did outside of the story that takes place in this game,were is this character
from,name etc etc etc.

Same thig happen to Revan as a character,Revan became male, lightside , had a child etc etc after
Drew wrote Revan the novel.Up until that point it was all lore and game mecanics.

Kaedusz's Avatar


Kaedusz
06.19.2013 , 04:53 AM | #206
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_Karsk View Post
What some of you ignoramus stupidious lolslore forums heroes need to understand it that nothing
is canon until it is in the a movies b animated series c novels.

For jedi knight story to be canon a autor must give them character a gender,aligment as was that character
a lightside/darkside jedi.What he/she did outside of the story that takes place in this game,were is this character
from,name etc etc etc.

Same thig happen to Revan as a character,Revan became male, lightside , had a child etc etc after
Drew wrote Revan the novel.Up until that point it was all lore and game mecanics.
It must be terrible being you. I's sorry for you.

No,but seriously? You *are* trolling right ?Noone is THAT ignorant/s*upid.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
06.19.2013 , 04:54 AM | #207
Quote: Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD View Post
The father was stronger then both of them, right? Mortis Trilogy is just an attempt to explain the "balance in the Force" ideology originally proposed by GL and it is still confusing.

My point is that extremely powerful Sith Lords can disturb the balance of the Force until destroyed. Sith Lords, in general, do not adhere to the will of the Force, they rather misuse it. Several Sith Lords have attempted to harm the Force itself; Traya; Nihilus; Tenebrae. Also, the path of dark side can lead to unlimited power (godlike capabilities). You do the math now.
Its very much a two sided coin though. On one hand Sith manipulate the Force to destroy and attack, on the other hand a Jedi uses the Force more subtlety to redirect or absorb. A Sith works against the Force and attempts to twist it to its will, arguably by breaking the natural barriers they achieve 'unlimited power' a Jedi however works with the Force, they become a conduit for it, so they too can unlock its full potential.

In the end, the most powerful dark side power can be absorbed by a powerful enough Jedi. Even a Force storm could be dispelled by the power of the light side, the fact that the combined efforts of Luke and Leia used the light to do this shows it is possible if you are strong enough. Essentially the light can simply shine out the dark.

And with the Force potential of the Chosen One, Luke Skywalker likely achieved enough power to sever Sidious from the Force without the aid of his sister. I mean, we have to remember what George Lucas said on the matter:

"However, after all of his limbs were severed and he was extremely burned on Mustafar he lost much of his Force potential. As Darth Vader, Skywalker was believed to have had roughly 80% of the strength of the Emperor. Had he sustained none of his injuries on Mustafar he would have been twice as powerful."

Given that Luke is said to have achieved the potential of the Chosen One, he is twice as powerful as Sidious pre-Dark Empire and unless Sidious doubled in strength (which is very unlikely) at the pinnacle of Luke's power was likely more powerful than even post-Endor Sidious.

Now yes, Luke was put into a comatose by the spirit of Exar Kun, but let's not forget that Exar Kun was a very powerful Sith Lord and as a Force ghost he may have even become more powerful. He also combined that power with the incredible Force ability of Kyp Durron. But even then it was not enough to kill Luke, who managed to subdue Exar Kun with the help of others while still in spirit form. And even then he had yet to reach his full potential.
Quote:
Not necessarily. Some examples:-

1. Luke had no answer to the power that Exar Kun unleashed upon him.
2. Tutaminis abilities didn't work against Tenebrae's "swirling storm of pure dark side energies" type lightning and this is not his most potent power either.

I can offer more examples...
None of those examples are relevant though because they did not involve a light sider who had mastered the light side to the nth degree. I'm sure I could come up with many examples of dark siders being incapable to counter light side powers but that too would be inconclusive. The only light sider who would fit the bill is the Daughter, and she managed to absorb the Force lightning of the Son. So there we go.

Remember I'm not arguing that Light > Dark always, but that they are equal, and a light sider and dark sider of completely equal strength will be completely equal. And that there is no dark side power that cannot be countered by a light sider of sufficient strength. The examples you gave involved light siders who lacked such strength.
Quote:
You should focus on available evidence. Their is no need for a consensus; different people have different views and many do not understand "ground realities" of the Star Wars (canonical evidence is your best ally). You can dig more on this if you want to and we can discuss it. Of-course, if somebody wishes to get involved in this debate, he or she will do so.

I reiterate that Sidious and Tenebrae should occupy 1st or 1st and 2nd spots respectively. No Jedi had reached their level of power.
Yes but the thing is, I'm no expert on the post-ROTJ. And those who are familiar with it always tell me that Luke is the best of the best of the best. The fact that he ROFLstomped Caedus is evidence of this. As are the various quotes made by George Lucas making it effectively G-Canon. He may not be calling down Force storms or gobbling up planets, but only because that is the nature of the light. He could however, at the pinnacle of his power, take anything Vitiate or Sidious could throw at him.
Quote:
Why not? You think that the Sith Empire constituted by Tenebrae was predominantly inhabited by mooks? It has witnessed rise and fall of many prodigiously talented Sith Lords in history.

And this is your assumption or you have any poof?

Also, canonically being a "master of the dark side" and being formidable enough to rout whole armies singlehandedly does not seems like big deal to you? I am surprised honestly. Few Sith Lords in history have comparable accolades. Limited information does not suggests that a character is weak or something in the grand scheme of things.
No its my opinion, but having this kind of debate isn't getting anywhere. Arguing here there and everywhere is not the purpose of this debate. If you feel X deserves a certain position, but forward your reasons. However I would discount Marr simply because we lack sufficient information on him. He was a master of the dark side but that only makes him a candidate for the list, as there are many levels of mastery.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
06.19.2013 , 04:57 AM | #208
Quote: Originally Posted by marcelo_sdk View Post
And don't have say that, if we take that literally, there's no post-ROTJ EU, no new movies. So, G-canon can be used unquestionably to provide facts, but never to compare characters, especially of distant eras.

Proof is that, even you Beni, a fierce defender of G-canon, begins to wonder about Luke being more powerful than Sidious (for me, obviously he isn't).
I expect that the new movies will be encompassed by G-Canon, as the old movies are.

Basically, G-Canon still stands and until its done away with I'm not going to disregard it. We don't know what Disney are going to do so its impossible to speculate. The movies don't exist yet so debating whether they are canon or not is pointless. We are in the here and now, and in the here and now G-Canon is absolute.

Remember this is the 'REAL' most powerful Force users - so it has to act in accordance with canon.

Lord_Karsk's Avatar


Lord_Karsk
06.19.2013 , 04:59 AM | #209
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaedusz View Post
It must be terrible being you. I's sorry for you.

No,but seriously? You *are* trolling right ?Noone is THAT ignorant/s*upid.
How can i say this in a nice way hmmmmmm
if you go to force.net etc sites were the top dogs when it comes to lore, canon etc hangs out and you talk like you do
here not only will they close your threads they will call you out as a idiot and ignore you
When someone claim game mecanics is canon stories do you understand what a complete retard that
person sound like .

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
06.19.2013 , 05:03 AM | #210
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_Karsk View Post
Let me invalidate this Reason why Vitiate is not canon is because the jedi knight in this game kills Vitiate.
He defeat him fair and sqare, and jedi knight in this game is not canon, dont even exist on written word anywere, its a
class in a game. For even the story line to be canon they have to do what Drew did to Revan in Revan novel, and they
have not done that.So by this fact the jedi knight in this game is on that list, but of course he/she is not because that storyline is not canon AND never happen.See were i'm going with this ??
The Hero of Tython (yes that's his name) is canon. He is mentioned in the SWTOR Encyclopedia as an in-universe character. He is canon.

The Sith Emperor is also canon, EVERYONE who appears in SWTOR is C-Canon.